So... can I have tips on beating Nightmare?

darkfender

[10] Knight
. 4B+K B tracking is off the grid overpowered broken safe
Excuse me why on earth would even be "good" (lets ignore that the horizontal doesn t track…).
Its i50 or what?
The aGI is a tool against non NC strings (thus extremely situational) since the aGI window starts extremely late and also blocks only mids (not even all mids).

So if THAT is good NM armor is allmighty OP due to extremely early frame activation and being more versatile.

Maybe I was misunderstood, 3(B) done yolo is as useless as NM 6BBB done yolo.
The actual proper comparison would be Raph 66B+K against NM 6BBB
Now 66B+K its extremely strong but requires some setup, mostly because raph lacks step threats outside stance (having mostly HIGH horizontals that don t even track properly differently from nightmare)
Even the damege despite being the top for Raph doesn t compare despite the higher risk and its mostly use to setup Frametraps and obviously no damage on block.

When a good move loses on EVERY aspect you see there is a problem.

It's the best tool Raph has against nightmare explosion as you can do it on reaction
Once again: do you know what a panic button is?
Something you can use when you should NOT be attacking, its universal or almost universal and let you get away with it.
Another comparison Raph prep4 aGI:
This is what an answer should be: early frames activation BUT short window, intended to be used ONLY to work with a HARD prediction (2A) with proper timing.

In this case how does the explosion compare?
Terror stance, damage even on block, tracking and absorbing damage reducing it like it was blocked on SC long windown and KD, doesn t need to be in stance.
Or even the CE….

RISK/REWARD is totally broken.

You expect your opponent to stay on block (and still get damage) each time he earned frame advantage?
So you have a 50% mixup for more damage you could possibly expect AND KD each time your opponent attack without punishing.
That won't be possibly abused in tournaments being a 60:40 to 70:30 gamble where people prefers to rely on skill but its still ridiculously abusable if you can't face your opponent on even ground (or you are under pressure).

This is a stale old discussion already answered about universal GI, RE, and GI/armor CEs.
You are not expected to have an actual advantage at frame disadvantage.

It's working wonders for me on any NM i've encountered,
This is the problem,,,,,you met super bad nightmare players. Onetrick ponies won't work even if you abuse voldo CE.

There is a huge difference between top tier and broken, the kind of difference that justifies nerfs or not.
i am saving this sentence and come back to discuss it with you next patch. (adding that NM is not BROKEN is just OP, Voldo is Broken).
That will prove who between us were wrong.
(and Namco doesn t care about people opinion on forum when it comes to Balance).

P.S: even Raph AGcancel is 90% unintended as it is and will get a fix (in this case we are talking about a glitch not a balance issue).
No way an i10 can give +2 or +6 on block and high damage NC.
Its clearly one of the many holes in the strings that weren't tested properly it just comes if they see it as a good thing.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
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Ukkesh

[13] Hero
Maybe I'm weird. I never had trouble with nightmare. HIS attacks are slow and easily stepped. I'm not really sure if you are having troubles with his 66b, or his Night back stance A+B. His terror charage is fairly easy to deal with, and only really catches me at unlucky times. All of his B attacks minus BB are fairly easy to GI. Night back stance A+B is pretty ridiculous, I'll give you that @darkfender .
I Play Mitsu, Taki and Tira, so for the most part i'm quite short-ranged. RE can deal with his Double low slash thing, so as a Raph, you can just cancel from that. In fact, you can eat most horizontals that way. You also have an a bunch of aGI. I get that it can be easy to forget they exist (I do it a lot, trust me.)

The main thing against nighty is go with A for the most part in RE. He will want to do K. It gives him terror charge. You don't want to be in RE in general against him IMO.

Any other issues? Happy to give my two cents iguess
 

SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
No you're not weird, you're actually knowing the NM Matchup.


Excuse me why on earth would even be "good" (lets ignore that the horizontal doesn t track…).
Its i50 or what?
The aGI is a tool against non NC strings (thus extremely situational) since the aGI window starts extremely late and also blocks only mids (not even all mids).

It's godlike because you can use it in neutral to whiff punish and it completely ignores 8wayrun. I've used it against very good players and it always works. it IS good.

Once again: do you know what a panic button is?
Something you can use when you should NOT be attacking, its universal or almost universal and let you get away with it.
Another comparison Raph prep4 aGI:
This is what an answer should be: early frames activation BUT short window, intended to be used ONLY to work with a HARD prediction (2A) with proper timing.

In this case how does the explosion compare?
Terror stance, damage even on block, tracking and absorbing damage reducing it like it was blocked on SC long windown and KD, doesn t need to be in stance.
Or even the CE….

RISK/REWARD is totally broken.

Explosion is a panic button only against BBBBBBBBbbbbbbbb spammers, there is NO way this would work as a panic button against any DECENT soul calibur player ever since soul calibur 4 (guess what, it was IDENTICAL then). Soul charge is irrelevant in this particular case being discussed, we're talking about the aGI part.

You expect your opponent to stay on block (and still get damage) each time he earned frame advantage?
So you have a 50% mixup for more damage you could possibly expect AND KD each time your opponent attack without punishing.
That won't be possibly abused in tournaments being a 60:40 to 70:30 gamble where people prefers to rely on skill but its still ridiculously abusable if you can't face your opponent on even ground (or you are under pressure).

This is a stale old discussion already answered about universal GI, RE, and GI/armor CEs.
You are not expected to have an actual advantage at frame disadvantage.

It's easy to have nightmare under pressure as long as you always use good moves (i.e. over the damage threshold moves, or low starting moves, or baits with fast moves that allow you to block the ball. Before you start saying OMG ITS STILL PLUS, it might be but it's useless as it leaves you at the exact range where all of nightmare's fast moves (which is, K and that's it) won't hit, and any other moves are so slow that they will lose to the majority of attacks. This is without adding the fact that you can actually bait the ball and punish since it's - .


This is the problem,,,,,you met super bad nightmare players. Onetrick ponies won't work even if you abuse voldo CE.

I actually played really good nightmare players that didn't even give me a chance to interrupt stances as they didn't go in them except on oki or as a risk when the positioning allowed a small punish and avoiding RO. I actually AM playing nightmare against good players that shut down every option that you are enumerating in your post.

i am saving this sentence and come back to discuss it with you next patch. (adding that NM is not BROKEN is just OP, Voldo is Broken).
That will prove who between us were wrong.
(and Namco doesn t care about people opinion on forum when it comes to Balance).

P.S: even Raph AGcancel is 90% unintended as it is and will get a fix (in this case we are talking about a glitch not a balance issue).
No way an i10 can give +2 or +6 on block and high damage NC.
Its clearly one of the many holes in the strings that weren't tested properly it just comes if they see it as a good thing.

If NM gets nerfed it is because of fake cries for help, when things as Sieg aB, Cervantes + Ivy half the moveset ,and soph 236B go under the radar.

NM will just be a scapegoat to get the actual broken stuff unnoticed.


P.s. just noticed your signature, it's godlike <3
 
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darkfender

[10] Knight
I am just ignoring the "technical" part on an aGI that works only on some mids used as a vertical tracking after the opponent let you whiff and sleep :| for 50 frames and just go straight back at your argument

Explosion is a panic button only against BBBBBBBBbbbbbbbb spammers, there is NO way this would work as a panic button against any DECENT soul calibur player ever since soul calibur 4 (guess what, it was IDENTICAL then). Soul charge is irrelevant in this particular case being discussed, we're talking about the aGI part.

No it wasn t identical due to late frames.
Yes its now a panic button that works in offline tournament
Yes is one of the best Siegfried moves that is limited to just 1

As a raph player you should know raph veterans excels only at 2 things: defense. and turtling... so the spam accusation is silly.
Giving SC is not irrelevant...Nigtmare without SC and CE is manageable despite still strong.

But mostly.... do you remember past Patches?
did they ever nerf some character on popular demand or they actually did what they wanted and people got mad for that?

So don't even say that.
 

SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
Sure, they don't do it NRS style, but with Hilde and Viola and how they turned out, I can't say I trust a proper decision on the balance team.

We can continue the 4B+K on the raph forum if you want, you can do it from out of range on a huge selection of characters and they can't do anything about it except wait to GI the followup if you do any. I use it a lot and hardly get countered even from high rank players.

I was talking about general spamming, not raph. It's a panic button for new players that don't know how to counter it and just sell the game after a couple of nightmare matches.
Using it when you get pressured only works against new players that spam fast moves and they hope for the best. Against someone who has played against Nightmare since SC4 included, it's just another move that has a lot of counters.

SC is relevant mostly in the case of 6BBB(biggest complaints), which can be nerfed, sure, no chip, half damage, whatever. Anyone who bases his NM play on that move is playing NM extremely wrong anyway.

SC is however relevant as it gives access to 236KK which was the main ring out tool for NM since ages, which he now is conditioned to have. This is not even up to discussion as dropping this might as well remove NM from the character board.


We will see in future tournaments, once new players start learning Nightmare matchups nobody will pick him just as the other soul games before.


There are a lot of big posts here so just to sum up FAKE news about Nightmare:

FAKE:
* soul charge gives huge advantage on block and pushback
Wrong: SC does NOT affect normal moves. The only move that does this is 6BBB which is high risk high reward. The others(A+B in stances) will NEVER come out against a decent SC player. 236KK is his main RO tool from combos which was default in SC4 and will seriously gimp his game if it is gated by soul charge.

* Terror charge counters(6AA, 6BB, 6K, 6A+B) are broken
Wrong: damage threshold and lows break them and they are baitable and punishable if you don't rush head first to spam your fast strings. Their mechanics are identical to Soul 4 and it wasn't a problem then. Only difference is that the blast is GB on block, which could surely be removed through a nerf without affecting anything important.

* Ce is broken
Wrong: Unblockable is only guaranteed against spammers that get their first hit absorbed and the second gi-ed, which allow the full charge. Other than that It's identical to Ivy's that has full gi from frame 0.

TRUE:
* SC 6BBB accesible very easy through the match, huge damage and chip and advantage
Right: it could use a damage nerf and chip nerf, maybe a bit less + on block, but that's it.

* SC KB loop very strong
Right: might want to not allow 2A+B on close counter hit ever, since it shuts down a lot of characters





Now, to actually add something useful to the thread for people looking for anti nightmare tips.

Nightmare is a spacing neutral high risk high reward character.

This means that, contrary to how it might feel when you first get steamrolled by him, that it's ok to guard the first hit he does.
Any stance transition is interruptible guaranteed by pokes, and for some chars by full combos.

Most of his moves are unsafe from close range, learn to punish them guaranteed. He will want to stay at a longer range (sword tip) to make them safe. This means that the smallest step back will cause him to whiff. In that case you should practice footsies out of his range for a whiff punish.

Nightmare is very susceptible to reversal edge as well, as he does not have multi hits. This however has the problem of the guessing game, if you're not Raphael that is.

Exception to these is the main problem of the arguments above, 6BBB, which you should definitively sidestep and full combo punish. On this side I can perfectly understand the need for a nerf, but without killing the nature of the character (see above).

Once you get over the scary factor and actually start pressing buttons in his gaps you will slowly see that you actually shut down everything he does.

Get in training mode, set nightmare to 6AA spam mixed up with 6A+B and you will find your starters that guarantee a combo when these moves are pulled out. Practice interupting stance transitions on reactions as they are very very slow and NOTHING is guaranteed for him after that. Find out your moves that go over the damage threshold for the terror counter.

Stop overusing pokes because you are not playing against Taki, Nightmare can't pressure you into actually needing fast pokes to get out of pressure.

Make sure you implement a LOT of high crush moves (sieg 3B kills nightmare for example as the hit is over the damage threshold for Terror charge and also high crushes) as Nightmare's fast moves are only highs. His 2 hit strings mostly end in a high (almost all the ones ending in the claw as well) so learn to tech crouch and full punish those.

That's about what I can think of for starters. The training mode is great for this as you can actually select the move from nightmare for the training dummy and easily learn to counter it.

TL;DR Yes, unfortunately Nightmare is a character that you'll have to particularly learn how to beat. Picking a top tier and doing the flowchart will not work as against other characters where you mostly don't care what they do.

Sorry about this term for new players, but they called Nightmare in former games the "scrub killer". It means that you really have to learn the mechanics and the character to win this time, you can't rely only on your tools without caring to learn the matchup.
 
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darkfender

[10] Knight
* soul charge gives huge advantage on block and pushback
Wrong: SC does NOT affect normal moves. The only move that does this is 6BBB which is high risk high reward. The others(A+B in stances) will NEVER come out against a decent SC player. 236KK is his main RO tool from combos which was default in SC4 and will seriously gimp his game if it is gated by soul charge.
This was first topic. in wich i was asking the stance name to get the moves properties.
The second part is just misinformation/personal opinions you are trying to push no offense.

Problem IS guard damage, guard breaking and overall damage.

* Terror charge counters(6AA, 6BB, 6K, 6A+B) are broken
Wrong: damage threshold and lows break them and they are baitable and punishable if you don't rush head first to spam your fast strings. Their mechanics are identical to Soul 4 and it wasn't a problem then. Only difference is that the blast is GB on block, which could surely be removed through a nerf without affecting anything important.
already answered you didn't read ITS NOT anyway similar to scIV as GI is not, longer window, tracking damage and MOSTLY EARLY activation.
Raph was given an aGI that blocks all mid and is considered strong but balanced.
Not only is way less effective, but was given (as for traditional SC philosophy) LATE activation to prevent abuses.

Now you even have the antistep blast.
But lets not ever mention the huge increase in the damage absorbtion to the point most character will never be able to break it.

As said try a comparison.
No way this is no OP.


* Ce is broken
Wrong: Unblockable is only guaranteed against spammers that get their first hit absorbed and the second gi-ed, which allow the full charge. Other than that It's identical to Ivy's that has full gi from frame 0.

Don t accuse people of being spammer if you make arguments ignoring SC BASICS.
I know NM is noob friendly and push you to just ignore game basics but these arguments are really a waste of time.
Not only they removed HIT CONFIRM from most strings but there are many moves that hits more than twice with a single input.
Stop really this is not fooling anyone
Even most BB or AA.


But MOSTLY:
I'll just link this old comic post here:
http://www.toptiertactics.com/12528/leaked-soul-calibur-5-patch-notes-1-01/#axzz5WFQiTGdO

A couple examples:

  • Seigfried: The length of Seigfried’s sword has been increased 1.2 meters to better represent the sexual insecurities of players choosing Seigfried

  • Seigfried: The girth of Seigfried’s sword has been increased 30 cm to better represent the dimension that matters more to most players

But the best remains this:
A couple examples:

  • Nightmare: Fixed a bug that prevented Nightmare’s Critical Edge from beating throws, unblockables, and other Critical Edge attacks. Whoops!

This used to be a joke…. XD
 
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SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
I'm sorry, it's not misinformation at all.

That's not even an argument that you're trying to push there. I'm not even going to start listing my soul calibur experience bla bla bla. I'll only say that I played this game long enough to at least have a common sense opinion about things, and I never speak without previously testing in training mode and making sure I am not just talking out of my ass.

Everything I said I also tested in practice mode and with players both ranked and offline.

This : "Problem IS guard damage, guard breaking and overall damage. "
Well, no. If you still don't get it, i'm sorry, i have explained it several times in my previous posts with arguments that haven't been taken down as far as of now with concrete examples.

"but these arguments are really a waste of time. "

These arguments are logical and actually turn out to be exactly how it is in the game, if you would actually try it instead of shutting it down with no pertinent counter argument.

As luck would have it I still have my ps3 with SCV which I played literally up until a day before SC6 came out. So to give you the benefit of the doubt I tested the explosion back to back and it has the exact same counters as I've said before. As I've already said, the only difference is the GB on the blast if you manage to poke and block. The activation is indeed a bit faster, I couldn't videotape my screen to do a frame data analysis but the difference is negligible for human reaction as I've tried with my soul calibur friends to counter it by poking NM out of it fast enough and wasn't able to do it in 5 and in 6 in the same manner.

I wanted to actually do a back-to-back video from SCV and SCVI with the explosion on all the similar moves, but I actually ended playing the game with my friends and forgetting about the video.

However, this discussion has been long enough without productively going anywhere. I have made my arguments based on gameplay and training mode, and anyone who will read them and try them will have a better nightmare experience.

However keep in mind that in the recent tournaments and streams everyone is starting to learn to counter Nightmare and the problem is slowly going away. Before any patch appears you will probably be among the few still complaining.


And to end this chain of back-and forth arguments, I am going to repeat myself once again and say I never said NM was low tier, just not OP.

However, because of our discussion I understood the reasons and arguments you made so I wanted to make a list of decent nerfs that could be done without destroying the character completely:

* 6BBB chip damage (could be nerfed to 0, still won't affect NM gameplan)

* 6BBB damage (could be nerfed to half, still won't affect NM gameplan)

* SC KB -> less stun on CH to not allow 2A+B - this should probably be the first thing to be removed as I started to feel how OP it is myself while using it.

* Guard break on terror charge counter explosion removed. Baiting it with a poke and guarding the blast should give a reward and a punish to nightmare, just as the regular ball blocked

* Going out on a limb here but I wouldn't actually mind at all to remove the TC option on 6AA 6BB 6K, as NM players will still use 6A+B for getting out of pressure if needed. It would be the same behavior as all 4 lose to low hits and damage threshold so I can't even see a need for those moves in the main NM gameplan. If this would shut up the most complainers sure, I can't see it hindering the NM flow at all.

* 6A+B. I wouldn't mind reverting it to exactly how it is in SCV at all. Playing a lot vs Siegs, Tiras and Cervantes, all my friends that main those characters agreed they don't feel any difference in the damage threshold or activation. It is different, but not enough to actually give the possibility of another option. I feel the same, but if the numbers on paper will make people feel better (like, adding 5 or 10 extra frames to activation - that's how it seemed eyeballing it in SCV), sure, go ahead, it won't be problematic at all. People would still use low pokes to interupt as they have been doing ever since the move was invented.

However, the GI part must stay. The tool is exactly working as intended, anti mash get-off-me move to avoid getting 10-0ed by fast 50-50 block pressure characters. Nightmare shouldn't be pressured to be beaten, he should be out-footsied. That's the design and it works perfectly as it is now.

CE is fine. Sure there are a lot of multi hit strings, and fast strings that if done yolo will allow the unblockable. How about not using those. It's a conditioning tool exactly as Ivy's. Once she has CE you don't just mash in her face, it is what it is. The damage should also stay because as opposed to Ivy's, his CE is steppable and full combo punishable if you guess right. High risk high reward.
Allowing nightmare to be beaten by spamming fast multi hitting moves in him is exactly what should never happen.

And on a final note, I'm sorry if anything I said seemed offensive or as an attack to you, not my intention, I just want clean arguments with facts and numbers from the game and I always provide this for what i'm speaking of.
 
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ShenRii

[09] Warrior
NM's CE is basically a poor man's version of RE.

NM's CE can be thrown, lowed and broken by big damage.
You can't do those to RE, making RE a better option in general (less damage but you gain meter).

NM's CE can be stepped even after NM tanking the 1st hit.
I've done a single hit, which was tanked, and then step the CE before; the normal one.
Even more time if NM charges the CE.

In fact, Geralt's auto-GI is better.
Uses less meter.
Deals the same damage.
No damage threshold.
Break attack punish does not Lethal Hit.
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
NM's CE is basically a poor man's version of RE.

NM's CE can be thrown, lowed and broken by big damage.
You can't do those to RE, making RE a better option in general (less damage but you gain meter).
Fake news

NM CE has 2 stages afaik
If charged it Impacts throws and lows (throws 100% sure).
As said damage threshold was increased by a lot… and most characters don't have access to "high damage" Attacks viable in a situation where any decent player would use the CE

Also:
RE doesn t reward with 100 to 120 damage
RE doesn t GI anything
RE are slower
RE can be interrupted simply attacking in the window between the block and the counterattack.

I am done.....here since no technical abswer will ever come.
And i don't care about nerfs or whatever… i just hate when people try to give you answers clearly wrong.

P.S: need frame data on scV explosion (threshold was indeed smaller) i quit for obvious reason after patch 1.2 and 22G step glitch.
 

SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
Dude nightmare just got destroyed by Raph on JPs stream as we speak, countering everything including punishing the CE and sidestepping it.
It's still ongoing, maybe you should watch to see that all the problems you say are not actually problems at all.


Going strong 3-0 against nightmare only as I've starting watching, he's practically shutting everything down. Doesn't seem OP to me at all lawl.

Edit: 4-0 and going

And lol, all my answers were technical and right, so tough break for you what can I say.

Final Edit: ROFL he just poked nightmare out of his CE with B2. At this point i'm just going to ignore anything you say about nightmare until you actually start playing the game.
 
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ShenRii

[09] Warrior
Wtf, it's not fake news.

Go to practice mode, set NM to do a 3K then CE.
Then replay it and throw him or low him out of it.

If you are talking about the 2nd part, where it's a GI. (NM Tanks 1 hit, then GIs the 2nd)
If that's the case, maybe you should be stepping instead of throwing after NM tanks your 1st hit.

--
NM's CE costs 1 meter, RE gives 0.5 meter. Surely, there must be some trade off.
If NM's CE is going to give the same damage as RE, it better give NM meter.

I don't think the startup is any faster than RE, until we have frame data, we can't prove this. AFAIK, if I can RE, I can CE and vice versa.
But what I did test is NM does 3K (neutral) and then RE or CE. Raph will K the RE or Ce then step or guard.
In both cases, he can guard but can't step. So, I'm pretty sure they are about the same speed.

Yes, RE can be interrupted, but that's because you are Raphael. Nightmare doesn't get many chances to do so. Most of the time, if he gets REd, he gets REd.
I think the only time it has happened for me is when someone tried to RE my NSS [A] and NSS K got him.

But hey, wrong choice on my opponent's part. If he held it longer... or maybe 2Kd before I go into NSS. Or just turtled... and so on...

---
Basically, there's a trade off for both RE and CE but the general consensus is that RE is better because it's free and does the same job as CE.

NM is better off using the meter for SC.

Feel free to come to Nightmare discord and ask the rest. But if you think everyone's only going to feed you fake news, then nobody can help you.
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
CHARGE your CE.

Dude nightmare just got destroyed by Raph on JPs stream as we speak, countering everything including punishing the CE and sidestepping it.
It's still ongoing, maybe you should watch to see that all the problems you say are not actually problems at all.


Going strong 3-0 against nightmare only as I've starting watching, he's practically shutting everything down. Doesn't seem OP to me at all lawl.

Edit: 4-0 and going

And lol, all my answers were technical and right, so tough break for you what can I say.

Final Edit: ROFL he just poked nightmare out of his CE with B2. At this point i'm just going to ignore anything you say about nightmare until you actually start playing the game.
This is the 2K vid once again.....

Are we really discussing this vid?
How do you rate that nightmare player?

Should we take seriously a player who NEVER punish any -16 to -20?
Who never steps
A players that keep blocking after being hit after 2K
Someone who lets raph spam a TRIPLE prep ON Block?
Guy that literally keep blocking at +16 so many times???


I mean you are against a character with no lateral damage potential and you have 100 damage punisher and even if you don t know anything you don t take a guess?


Given that is worse than the average beginner at least on PC eu (for matchup knowledge and possibly NM knowledge himself)..how many CE does he lands?
Cool he broke one (still to see too bored to look at 4 matches....) and landed 4.... so its OK.


No idea on what s happening in your vid (manuality seems good and i might have seen some 46 ag cancels that imho are borderline cheating... can bet will be patched 100% soon) but tif you want to look how raph is supposed to be played here a vid

As you might see you are not getting away with that playstile against good opponents.

Now before we start hating each other lets end it here... maybe we can meet and test online if you are eu based n PC.
Otherwise TY anyway.
 
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SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
Oh, i'm sorry, I will never hate you, it's just that I don't want unnecessary nerfs.

I also enjoy endless back and forth discussions as long as we are throwing arguments and facts.

Maybe you noticed but I'm actively avoiding arguments that are subjectively only my opinion, without testing it in the game first.
 

IBulian

[01] Neophyte
Now before we start hating each other
I think we're past that :)

maybe we can meet and test online if you are eu based n PC.
I want in on that murder scene :)

Disclaimer, I know SwingShot personally, I'm the Sieg and Ivy he's been battling since SoCal3 (doesn't mean I'm on his side, though :) ).

Darkfender: on what platform(s?) do you have the game and on what timezone are you on?
 

SwingShot

[01] Neophyte
What the..Can't believe you just signed up to gank up on me dude :))

You know there's no possible outcome for a nightmare player to prove he's not op by actually playing a match right?

If the NM player wins -> NM is op as fk god damn character etc
If the NM player loses -> lol u are a disgrace to the NM community u suk everyone but you wins with him braindead
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
What the..Can't believe you just signed up to gank up on me dude :))

You know there's no possible outcome for a nightmare player to prove he's not op by actually playing a match right?

If the NM player wins -> NM is op as fk god damn character etc
If the NM player loses -> lol u are a disgrace to the NM community u suk everyone but you wins with him braindead

And that is why i didn't challenge you but wrote a complete different thing.
TEST=/= challenge.

Even the opposite wouldn't mean anything since there is personal skill AND online latency involved.