Soul Calibur should've had a revolving cast of characters

[Master_Thespian]

You don't answer a question with a question, that's politician tactics. And if you are going to reply to my post, then make a new post so I get notified of your reply and I can respond without being forced into a double post.

No, trying to divert a conversation with drivel about procedural semantics because you're faced with a question you're ill equipped to answer is a political move. Nice try, though.

If you weren't busy being so worked up about the lack of characters from Maghreb and Mesopetamia, you'd see Zwei shares his niche with Spawn and Talim, neither of which are these to fill that space in SCV. Even if they aren't all the same aesthetically, they share a lot of moves functionally, that insistant terminolagy you're so keen on. Unfortunately, his niche itself has been nerfed in moving over to SCV. But of course, he's a badly designed character because he's white.

Who's getting worked up? Aesthetically, he's a poorly designed character because he doesn't evoke any culture and is anachronistic to boot. The one culture that his gameplay could've worked with is criminally under represented considering the setting of the game. But sure, get mad and casually toss around veiled racism claims because someone had the temerity to suggest it might be a good idea to introduce characters from the preeminent Eurasian empire of the 16th and 17th centuries for a game that takes place in Eurasia in the 16th and 17th centuries. Leave your ridiculous persecution complex at the door.

Furthermore, what niche is it that Spawn and Talim share with ZWEI? Are you talking about range? Spawn's range was deceptive because of his height and Talim's was short. Speed? Spawn was slow and Talim was fast. Safety? Evasion? ZWEI is worse at these than both characters. Guess what? None of that matters because having an assist is unique to his gameplay, which is the point I was making to DevilsDisguise. You can't separate him from EIN without turning him into a weak version of another character. I think ZWEI is a great gameplay design (that needs some tweaks to be effective) that would've been received better if his gameplay matched his aesthetics.

Anything else you try to ascribe to me is you projecting.

 

[Party Wolf]

I really dont understand how ZWEI plays like Talim and Spawn

 

[Party Wolf]

ZWEI is inspired by unknown from Tekken Tag Tournament 1, not Talim.

 

[Party Wolf]

I never played TTT1, from what I saw at the time Zwei's connection to Unknown was thematic.

They tried to expand on the idea of unknown with ZWEI. Getting rid of EIN and adding Spawn moves defeats the purpose of the character.

 

[GranmasGotGame]

I know this shows my ignorance about fighting games (due to my youth in the FGC) but why would people be against having a massive roster? Don't get me wrong, I know that having a roster of over 9000 (sorry couldn't resist) would be a little ridiculous but I can't think of any legitimate reason as to why having like, 35-40 different move-sets (characters)would be bad for a game. IMO it would add to the longevity of the game.

 

[Master_Thespian]

Your entire argument hinges on "I don't like him" though, as well as the fact that a game about magical swords has to be realistic in any way. Would there be any harm in it? No. Would there be any harm in not doing it? No. I don't see you complaining about Scandinavia being under-represented, and that Aeon doesn't represent a "culture" that existed at the time.

Except the fact that I have brought up the fact that there was no Scandinavian character in the past. I've also commented on how Hilde should've been Swiss instead of being yet another German character from a fictional empire. Your entire argument hinges upon you thinking someone is racist because they recognize there were other ethnicities on the Eurasian landmass during this series' timeframe. Soulcalibur's slide away from stylized representations of existing cultures (no need for quotations since they did exist) has hurt the series from a design standpoint.

EDIT: I was going to reply to your poorly thought out gameplay explanations but Party Wolf already expanded on what I said.

 

[Party Wolf]

I know this shows my ignorance about fighting games (due to my youth in the FGC) but why would people be against having a massive roster? Don't get me wrong, I know that having a roster of over 9000 (sorry couldn't resist) would be a little ridiculous but I can't think of any legitimate reason as to why having like, 35-40 different move-sets (characters)would be bad for a game. IMO it would add to the longevity of the game.

It makes a game harder to learn, since you would have to learn to get around too many moves. Tag 2 as an exmaple: There are about 60 characters (although some are clones) with about 100 moves each. You would have to be able to learn 6000 moves and 59 match ups.

 

[Master_Thespian]

It makes a game harder to learn, since you would have to learn to get around too many moves. Tag 2 as an exmaple: There are about 60 characters (although some are clones) with about 100 moves each. You would have to be able to learn 6000 moves and 59 match ups.

If we're counting each move in a string individually I'd put that number closer to 200 per character. Lars is on the low end and IIRC he had around 130 in T6. And not only are your reasons above true, but games with that many characters become impossible to balance without homogenizing the cast.

 

[CaptainHook]

Guys. STFU and get a room. This is how threads get fucked and the mods get to feel important.

Don't make me bust out the ignore button on yo ass

 

[J-Dude]

I'm playing Mortal Kombat right now and one of the things I feel that series does right is the roster of fighters has always been a revolving door ever since the 2nd game. Even fan favorites like Goro or Noob Saibot take a break once in a while so they don't get stale and common characters like Reptile have their appearance and attacks changed from game to game. Sub Zero and Scorpion are the only ones who are pretty much guaranteed to be in every release.

Now compare that to Soul Calibur where the roster after Soul Edge has been mostly the same with only a few minor changes up until SCV. I feel like PS has dug themselves into a hole because if they keep everything the same like it has been then people will complain the series is stale but on the other hand if they make a major roster change like they did in V fans complain about their favorite characters getting dropped. Had they been revolving popular characters in and out since the beginning they wouldn't have this problem now. Thoughts?

Revolving cast of characters is one of the things that I like about in SCV because it makes the roster fresh and new instead of just adding new characters while keeping the old ones.

 

[subsmoke]

Nah my point was they should've done that before because it's kind of too late now. You don't just take a long time fan favorite character like Taki who has been in every game since the series started almost 20 years ago and then all of a sudden get rid of her without pissing a lot of fans off. If they had replaced her with Natsu in the 1st or 2nd SC and then revolved her in and out I think it would have gone over better with the fans. Basically I feel like they've created a catch 22 for themselves. The series has gotten stale since PS never changes anything but because they never change anything people complain when they finally do.

Another problem I think is most of the new characters they brought in were either rip offs or at least heavily based on the ones they replaced. They took out Xianghua but then replaced her with her daughter who looks, acts and sounds like her and uses her weapon and fighting style. Why not just keep Xianghua?

 

[ShaolinTiger86]

It doesn't mean anything, but characters who share weapons have the same range, typically are around the same speed and power and one of them usually ends up being the inferior version of the concept (Kilik/Mina, Astaroth/Rock, Assassin/Yun, Amy/Raphael). I'd rather they moved on to unique ideas rather than splitting the gameplay concept for a character down the middle and struggling to come up with ways to fill them out. It took Project Soul three games to finally make the Siegfried and Nightmare split worthwhile. Raphael took the same number games to recover from his losses to the Amy split and he's still not what he once was. In the case of Mina and Rock, they've either been clones with few differences or terrible characters when PS tried to give them enough unique attributes to stand on their own.

I took off the nostalgia glasses for SC2 a long time ago, but I did like the bigger movelists. In the case of Nightmare, some people were able to use a lot of the stance roulette and moves and play a Siegfried game and be successful. Others played the straight forward, 5 optimal move game and found success that way. Players had more choice in how to play their characters. Project Soul could evolve the movelists in each game while giving that style access to all it's best options, and no matter which character a person plays within that style they don't get the shaft.

New weapons and real weapons aren't mutually exclusive concepts, either (although as soon as Ivy showed up that went out the window anyways). Off the top of my head:

• Mongolian Archer with back rolls for evasion. Flame arrows and a small buckler shield for protection.

Spoiler

• Zulu warrior with throwable/retrievable Spears and Shield, capoeira style kicks and flips.

Spoiler

• An Ayutthaya/Thai soldier that fits into the mobile grappler archetype with all sorts of Tony Jaa goodness.

Spoiler

These are just a couple of examples of where I'd rather PS go instead of Alexandra #5.

Master_Thespian, I like your ideas. As far as weapons for new warriors are concerned, might I suggest adding a glaive or a mace weapon for the Mongolian Archer? And as far as other warriors go, how about we add

• An Aztec/Mayan Warrior with a macuahuitl (Aztec Sword Club) and round shield, using hard strikes and a sacrificial knife for surprise close range attacks

Spoiler

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IoKyba98jXs/TKkSTcSemHI/AAAAAAAAFFY/GVWujVPOWvc/s1600/aztec.jpg

• A Maori Warrior with a Shark Tooth club and a spear, who can grapple opponents to the ground, and even bite them (Not to mention the tribal tattoos and maybe a likeness to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson)

Spoiler

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__hspjzfC024/TNcEdExPdYI/AAAAAAAACVA/Td71JQw25Ck/s1600/maori-warriors.jpg

• An Egyptian warrior or assassin with twin daggers or a sickle. He or she could have a motif honoring Anubis, Horus, Isis, Ra, or Set.

Spoiler

http://news.militarygear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/egyptian-warriors.jpg

• A Rajput warrior from India with a flexible sword (Aara) that can be used as a whip, and a chakram that can be thrown from long range.

Spoiler

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100601173120/deadliestwarrior/images/4/4f/Rajput_4.jpg

• A Viking/Valkyrie wielding an Axe and a shield, since Aeon is wielding dual axes.

Spoiler

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/viking-series-history-channel.jpg

• A Streltsy soldier or an Oprichniki using a bardiche and pistol (Streltsy) or a saber and whip (Oprichniki). Capable of being combo heavy.

Spoiler

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ian_Strieltsy.JPG/270px-Russian_Strieltsy.JPG

Spoiler

http://37.media.tumblr.com/a0786d2c15a500b2c20960744b966759/tumblr_mgh88zJHd11r3sqxlo1_1280.jpg

• Native American warrior (Bangoo) wielding twin tomahawks. Combo heavy grappler

Spoiler

http://totalwar.honga.net/empire_un...tive_american_mounted_braves_info_inft&t=info

• Inca warrior wielding nothing but a pike

Spoiler

http://i54.tinypic.com/voxw7t.png

• Scottish Highlander or Celtic Warrior with a Broad sword.

Spoiler

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DyICMHxR9...+Festival+Fringe+Edinburgh+August+28th+03.jpg

• An Aboriginal warrior with a spear and boomerang combo

Spoiler

http://www.uow.edu.au/~morgan/graphics/selleny2.jpg

Those are all the warriors I could find, if that helps. Beats having another Alexandra (sorry Lang), and bringing some added diversity. Besides, any of those warriors, especially the Aztec and the Maori would be fun to watch in battle. Besides, SC could benefit from having returning characters (and similar characters as skins), plus the addition of some new warriors with new weapons and moves. Any suggestions, let me know.

 

[ShaolinTiger86]

Nah my point was they should've done that before because it's kind of too late now. You don't just take a long time fan favorite character like Taki who has been in every game since the series started almost 20 years ago and then all of a sudden get rid of her without pissing a lot of fans off. If they had replaced her with Natsu in the 1st or 2nd SC and then revolved her in and out I think it would have gone over better with the fans. Basically I feel like they've created a catch 22 for themselves. The series has gotten stale since PS never changes anything but because they never change anything people complain when they finally do.

Another problem I think is most of the new characters they brought in were either rip offs or at least heavily based on the ones they replaced. They took out Xianghua but then replaced her with her daughter who looks, acts and sounds like her and uses her weapon and fighting style. Why not just keep Xianghua?

This. In other words, Project Soul, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!