Talim's Tier Placement Question

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TheSire

TheSire

[08] Mercenary
Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums but not to the SC series.

I've been playing Talim on and off since release and I have a question for all the other Talim players.

What makes Talim so low on the tier list?

I know that she has horrible range, and is somewhat punishable but I dont think she's as low on the totem poll as people make her out to be on some of the tier discussion forums I've read.

Am I missing something here with Talim or is it just because she doesn't have moves as GOD-LIKE as Cass's :2::3::6: :Bh:_:B:?
 
Probably slow moves, punishable on quite a few moves, several of her moves require her foe to stand around and be dazzled by her hopping/dancing around, no range, low power...

That said (And I'm sure the more experienced players can also chime in) she's not heavily played so you do have the element of surprise on your side.
 
Talim IS low... and until Namco either gives her more range, or stops making her at such disadvantage, she will probably stay that way... There are several reasons to why she is low tier...

1. No range. I mean REALLY no range. Not like Taki that looks like she has no range, but then she actually does, Talim actually has no range. A lot of characters with small weapons will push forward when they attack, giving them deceptively long range, but Talim doesn't.

2. Very punishable. The majority of Talim's moves are punishable, and if its not punishable, more than likely it is at disadvantage. She rarely gets advantage on hit, to the point when I actually do a setup for advantage, my opponents are amazed and end up eating minor counterhit damage... She has a lot of disadvantage on HIT.

3. Minor damage. Yes, as part of #2, when many characters get advantage, they use that oppurtunity to do pokes, which could be mixed up into higher damage setups. Unfortunately, Talim's pokes do so little damage, and her damaging moves are so slow and unsafe that the advantage often goes to waste.

4. Risk VS Reward. Most characters have these really slow moves that do high damage; but almost all of them are safe and often give advantage. With Talim however, her really slow moves are the unsafe ones. She has to put herself at major risk in order to get any sort of mediocre reward.

5. Interruptable Everywhere. If you're fighting against Talim, you should be attacking always. What? Talim is flying at you with arms akimbo? Just hit BB and yell out "FACE!" All of her stance shifts are interruptable. She's jumping back? Well its not instant tech jump or instant backstep (like Raph's, X's or Yun's), just BB it.

6. SLOW. Talim SHOULD be a fast character; but she is not. When she attacks, she puts herself out first before her weapons (hence why she is interruptable everywhere).

7. Lack of TC. Yes, Talim rarely tech crouches anymore. To the point where she really only has ONE tech crouch low (WC A+K). Almost all other characters tech crouch more than she does; and they do it all the time. I find it very hard to do a simple AA because everyone is always tech crouching.

8. No Auto-GI. Everytime you go into back stance, you are at disadvantage. Period. Without the Auto-GI, you're gonna get hit, just take your licks and move on.
 
Tier placement is to a great extent based on favorable and unfavorable matchups. A key to favorable matchups is the ability to do counter-hits that lead to extremely destructive follow-ups, initiate with moves that give advantage and the ability to dodge the mainstay of the opponent. Unfortunately, in absolutely none of these categories does Talim rank high. She's actually very close to the bottom on each separate measure that we evaluate our tier by, and that's not even against just top tier characters that's against EVERY character. If she had some character...ANY character...that she had a huge advantage against we would immediately use that matchup as an example of how to use Talim. There's not a single character we can model our ideal matchup against...none at all...so where does she fall in the global ranking of characters? Right at the bottom. She still is my 4th character, but the main reason for this is that I just love her character and her moves the same way a pokemon playing kid that is 10 years old just loves his pokemon. I think that's one thing that every Talim player has in common, and an aspect that makes us as a community learning a sub-par character a great community to be a part of. We will never be able to take her to a tournament and sweep through with 4 or 5 uber combos like a Siegfried, Sophitia, Amy, Yoshi or Hwang will. What we will do is have a ton of fun exploring, continually searching for that holy grail of Talim play that will elevate her to the same level as the other characters. Is this possibly a fleeting dream, a hope that becomes less and less real as the environment matures? Possibly...probably...but keep it real, if you want to play to win right now, you're going to have to take another character as your main or you will have to initiate with repels and character-specific counter-hits. It is this measure of expertise, complete mastery of matchups, that is necessary to play Talim to the same level as a reasonably knowledgable Sophitia or Yoshimitsu. Otherwise, a well trained opponent who keeps decent pressure up will walk right over you and never see the grandiose dreams for Talim that you see.

If I had to break that all down into a single sentence I would state, "Talim has sub-standard damage, no consistent counter-hits and range and speed problems as well as initiation problems"
 
This is what I say when I paly a low tier character.

CY: the game is more fun with characters that offer challenge, not simple characters with BB's and AA's with good dmg output on them.
 
CrazyYoshimitsu said:
This is what I say when I paly a low tier character.

CY: the game is more fun with characters that offer challenge, not simple characters with BB's and AA's with good dmg output on them.
Click to expand...

agrees*

Yep. And it's more entertaining when you beat people using all that stuff with low tier. Just means your good. lol. Talim ftw. I'll never quit playin her. heh.
 
I get so many haters whenever I use Talim. I don't understand why they complain about being confusing when all they gotta do is press BB. LOL!!!! I dont know, but no matter how bad she might sound like, I really love her character. I don't know about statistics and stuff, but if you can synchronize with the way she moves and see your opponent and read them well? I think Talim stands a good chance. It's just a matter of making the right movement at the right time. ^^
 
She does have one thing going for her when she jumps back though. If the opponent presses BB and you decide to use her A+B unblockable from wind leap, they wont have enough time to side step and they will take major damage!
 
Meh, even if Talim is a low tier character, who cares?

High tier characters are for noobs anyway - noobs who can't win with any other character. :P
 
tiggerkiddo said:
That said (And I'm sure the more experienced players can also chime in) she's not heavily played so you do have the element of surprise on your side.
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Gold quote.
I've landed BT [B+K] A+B unblockable about twice since NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT DOES! once they've seen it once, they start interupting and you'll never get it again, but the "WTF that's a MOVE?" factor is definitely there. Granted I've only landed it twice, both times as a kill card because the opponent was on critical I was on half hp or higher, and they didn't want to die to chip damage.
 
I can still land it. People try to GI BT B+K A+B after eating throw mixups a zillion times. Lol.
 
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