Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Unlimited

[Rekano]

Im...indifferent about this Tekken. I was really hype for TTT2 until unlimited happened. Upon reading the Solo vs Teams, Ratio thing. I for one did not like the idea of giving folk the option to ratio in this game. Part of Tags charm is the ability to use 2 characters and keep from letting one die. So you're constantly trying to get the other in there. With the way combos and stuff work in the Tekken series, why bother using 2 characters when I can play 1 and get beefed health and damage? Especially in a game where when 1 character dies the round is over.

Im sure there are vids of it in action. And it's probably not as bad (at least in the eyes of a Tekken vet) as I am making it out to be. I may still pick it up on the basis that it has "Tag" in the title. And I fucking loved TTT.

 

[IdleMind]

how did u manage to single handedly ruin this game for me before it even came out

Play it because you like it, not because of what some jerk (me) on the internet thinks about it. My love affair with Tekken was over a long time ago (for reasons stated above), but yours doesn't have to be.

 

[banes]

Play it because you like it, not because of what some jerk (me) on the internet thinks about it. My love affair with Tekken was over a long time ago (for reasons stated above), but yours doesn't have to be.

i find stupid combos u have to remember extremely irritating, and i was already concerned that i had missed the past three incarnations full of new stupid namco combos, but i guess i will end up playing it regardless, just feel disgusted now realizing the rote ordeal i will have to go through

 

[hardwire]

That's called winning on ignorance. You see, the idea of a short movelist means quantifying the matchup becomes easier, which then in turn means the APPLICATION of moves becomes more important that the cramming of retarded esoteric 1-off moves you hardly ever see, which can lead to a gimmick round.

In SC5, I feel like what I learn to succeed at the game bears out in application. In Tekken, ever since 5, the hurdles you jump through just to play the "Real Game" have been getting higher and higher, and frankly, why am I jumping through useless hoops in order to play the game at a basic level? I mean for fucks sake, the entire movement engine is tethered on a glitch they left in. Characters have movelists filled with trash, as we only use 5-10 of those 50-60 moves (unless we are using those obvious B! and combo filler 3 hit strings). 10 hits are another false choice that you must learn to avoid getting randomed out, but once learn serve no purpose.

so we should do like scv and dumb down the game

i see good call ya no

please stay over here when tekken tag 2 hits please

 

[banes]

so we should do like scv and dumb down the game

i see good call ya no

please stay over here when tekken tag 2 hits please

what exactly is wrong with removing a bunch of stupid moves that you probably shouldnt be using in the first place?

 

[IdleMind]

so we should do like scv and dumb down the game

i see good call ya no

please stay over here when tekken tag 2 hits please

I see you must be an impeccable design theorist and scholar. I bet you think execution barriers justify poor balance decisions too.

I put in my hours learning to BDC, I put in my hours learning to EWGF, sat slack jawed in practice mode breaking throws by reading hands, and suffered countless hours learning 10 strings and the appropriate points to low parry them. In retrospect, it's a giant fucking waste of my time, and honestly, it's piss poor design and false barriers. I can criticize, because I've done it. You are seriously out of your league arguing here, go play in the kiddie pool.

 

[Grey.Wolf]

I love IdleMind when he does this.

 

[Kane]

I see you must be an impeccable design theorist and scholar. I bet you think execution barriers justify poor balance decisions too.

I put in my hours learning to BDC, I put in my hours learning to EWGF, sat slack jawed in practice mode breaking throws by reading hands, and suffered countless hours learning 10 strings and the appropriate points to low parry them. In retrospect, it's a giant fucking waste of my time, and honestly, it's piss poor design and false barriers. I can criticize, because I've done it. You are seriously out of your league arguing here, go play in the kiddie pool.

it's only a waste of time if you don't like the game / series, which seems to be obvious here.

it's a different game [than sc] and has different requirements. throw breaking is a requirement to be a good player. learning 10 strings is not a requirement, but it can get you out of an embarrassing situation. you can mash duck jab in almost every 10 string situation.

"and suffered countless hours learning 10 strings and the appropriate points to low parry them". I don't understand how this is useless anyway. people do the same shit with sc strings ... learn all the strings, learn where to just guard or duck or step or interrupt. the only difference is that 10 strings are gimmicky and really not important to know regardless. I myself only know how to defend against probably 20% of them

hours learning ewgf? ... I don't see a problem with this, if you use mishimas. I could say that I've spent hours [and I have] learning alpha patroklos' just frames .. it's the same idea. mishimas, as u know, are some of the higher execution-based characters in the game ... as is alpha pat / setsuka. but if they're not your main, no one needs to learn how to ewgf



as a fan of namco games, I don't believe hate on tekken is warranted on this forum [other than the fact that I play tekken]... but it is more so because I would like not to see people turn to other fighting games ... such as the garbage that crapcom produces.

 

[TsunamiBye]

Long humble ramble. Spoiler out of courtesy.

Spoiler

In simple terms, too much movesets is a lot to handle. While the fact that more characters with large moveset is better at first glance, it's a double edge sword. I don't know much here except, there's gonna be a lot of character ignorance since there's a lot of characters. Some seem similar and should have been cut to be added, but there will always be "character loyalty fappers". I happen to be one haha.


And usually, many peeps are gonna pick solid characters in a tier to win or sometimes tier whore. Other times, a low tier hero/exploring fiend in a character not used a lot will arise and win not because the character allows him to, but because character ignorance so to speak.

I could try my hand at trying to win tourneys with Yoshi and Asuka, but chances are I'm being naive and being a bit delusional. Yoshi and Asuka are my favorites, but they're like a "fancy jacket that can't cover your problems". Reason is they're not as solid as others once you figure them out. Not to mention it'll take forever to learn every match-up? Yeah, I'm best being ignorant altogether. However, I guess learning some b'nb's will suffice when I want to smack around uneducated scrubs for kinks haha.

 

[hardwire]

what exactly is wrong with removing a bunch of stupid moves that you probably shouldnt be using in the first place?

Ill start with you and maybe it will explain what i was saying to idlemind

when has it ever been a good idea to take content away from a game instead of building up on it
when has it ever been a good idea to take options out instead of adding onto it

and to you mr idle mind i have sat for days on end memorizing hwoarangs move list all 198 moves learned how each move flows into each different stance how each stand works with a different stance ive even learned all the useless 10 hit combos and extended them into 15-20 hit combos why because i love the game and ill be damned if i see the game that flushed all my milk money into growing up get dumbed down.

now im a little sleep deprived right now and when i posted that last one so my appologizes im a little grouchy but my point remains

dont kill a great game that takes dedication just to please the scrubs

 

[banes]

when has it ever been a good idea to take content away from a game instead of building up on it
when has it ever been a good idea to take options out instead of adding onto it

I am all for content, but I don't think having a shit ton of moves for a shit ton of characters is a good idea, or can even be considered good content, imo its a good idea to remove a bunch of moves [content] if it shifts the focus away from having to be a walking encyclopedia in order to compete aka going to med school, thats the one thing I hate most about fighting games, is that you have to learn and remember so much, this isnt applied skill tho, just because you are encyclopedia brown doesn't mean you should be good, its kind of like WoW where the longer you play, automatically the stronger your character gets, regardless if your skills are totally crap, and I am not down with that, I realize EVERY game requires memorization and learning, but why place such a high emphasis on that to do well? there is no skill involved in that, just time invested, and I don't want to play super no life fighter 2, if you wanted to play trivial pursuit then go play that, because learning all the moves is exactly that, trivial, but I personally want to play a strategic fighting game that doesn't require me to memorize an insane amount of moves and data in order to compete

don't get me wrong even if each character stupidly had 500 moves and there were 50 characters in the game, I would still play it (despite namco being retards only slightly above crapcom) but only on a casual level

moar moves does not equal good, quality over quantity my friend

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Idlemind simply dislikes execution barriers really.

The large movesets aren't really an issue unless you're playing someone like me who extensively finds ways to incorporate moves in different situations. Since most players tend to limit their play to around a certain amount of moves, then those moves are what you need to focus on aside from the usual gimmicks. You don't need to know EVERYTHING about EVERY character, just the essentials.

Regarding of the uses of all moves I don't believe in false choice when it comes to moves. How in the hell can choice in moves be false? Regardless of how bad or good the move is, I can choose to use it.

 

[banes]

Idlemind simply dislikes execution barriers really.

The large movesets aren't really an issue unless you're playing someone like me who extensively finds ways to incorporate moves in different situations. Since most players tend to limit their play to around a certain amount of moves, then those moves are what you need to focus on aside from the usual gimmicks. You don't need to know EVERYTHING about EVERY character, just the essentials.

Regarding of the uses of all moves I don't believe in false choice when it comes to moves. How in the hell can choice in moves be false? Regardless of how bad or good the move is, I can choose to use it.

youre right eventually it does just boil down to a few good moves, so why dont we just have those moves available instead? why do we have to cater towards scrubs and implement a bunch of dumb ass flashy moves that will never be used in high level competitive play? i never understood why namco implements so many useless moves, and im sure we can all agree lets retire 10 strings for fucks sake, this is like a novelty idea from the days of killer instinct and is outdated and needs to go the way tekken 1 went

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Why not? Those flashy moves are always the ones that catch people off guard. Its always those flashy moves that generate the hype. Also, it aint always about us high level players, casuals who like Tekken love the large movelists and the variety of moves. let them have their fun.

 

[banes]

Why not? Those flashy moves are always the ones that catch people off guard. Its always those flashy moves that generate the hype. Also, it aint always about us high level players, casuals who like Tekken love the large movelists and the variety of moves. let them have their fun.

youre right i am biased, i always look at the games from top down, not the other way around, which is not really fair to the majority of people who play the game who are either scrubs or casuals, but at least casuals and scrubs will get their way as i doubt ttt2 will reduce moves list, and so i will be forced to play the game in a casual manner since i am not willing to download the encyclopedia that will be ttt2

but really i brought up this angle because hardwire said removing moves is "dumbing it down" and saying removing moves list is to "please scrubs" when in reality it is quite the opposite, and hardwire is probably not a very high level tekken or soul calibur player for that matter, he is a casual who is looking at the game from a casual perspective assuming THAT is what high level play is all about, high level play is not about memorizing a bunch of moves, its about what happens after all the knowledge is accumulated and what u do with it

 

[hardwire]

youre right i am biased, i always look at the games from top down, not the other way around, which is not really fair to the majority of people who play the game who are either scrubs or casuals, but at least casuals and scrubs will get their way as i doubt ttt2 will reduce moves list, and so i will be forced to play the game in a casual manner since i am not willing to download the encyclopedia that will be ttt2

but really i brought up this angle because hardwire said removing moves is "dumbing it down" and saying removing moves list is to "please scrubs" when in reality it is quite the opposite, and hardwire is probably not a very high level tekken or soul calibur player for that matter, he is a casual who is looking at the game from a casual perspective assuming THAT is what high level play is all about, high level play is not about memorizing a bunch of moves, its about what happens after all the knowledge is accumulated and what u do with it

and thats where you are wrong again sir

I am a high level tekken player in fact a top 8 player thanks not in majors but in AAA (and that does count for somthing thanks) and no i do not claim to be a top level player in soul calibur

hwoarang has about 10 different juggles that are used from about 10 different situations ranging from wall carry to max damage walless to max damage wall to wall to tech trap set ups and this is all because of his massive move list

to say that any move is useless is in fact ignorant every move has its purpose and use just like every tool no mater how big or small has its purpose and use. take a real martial art and you will learn this hell play vf and you will learn this quick

 

[Nightblade]

I'm not going to agree or disagree with anyone in particular here. I am going to say, though, that the less moves that are in any game, unless each move has a specific utility, they are a waste of time and effort learning. Metagame, as it is known, does not begin until all elements of a given game are known to all parties participating. You cannot have real Metagame if there is character ignorance. The less moves a game has, the more quickly intelligent use of available moves will take place.

For me, Metagame is the fun part of the game. I jump execution hurtles etc. so I can get to that point with good players. The less Metagame going on because of flak moves that have no use other than combo filler, or literally to troll, the less I care about a game from a competitive standpoint. It's about having a game free of distraction.

I'm gonna play Tag 2, but I'm probably not going to play the way I want to play it. I'm going to try playing real grimy and see how far that takes me.

 

[banes]

hwoarang is a bit of an exception if i recall correctly

however, do u remember a game called tekken 4? i dont recall all of jins move list being utilized at the evo finals, likewise watch any championship for most recent tekkens, and i am certain u will not find a winning player using the entire move list for their character

i have studied martial arts, and i have played many fighting games, although one is based on the other, they are not the same

 

[jtdam09]

so we should do like scv and dumb down the game

I disagree in Tekken being inspired by SCV to reduce/heavily alter/simplify movesets as it made characters pretty bad compared to their predecessors (Leixia), made some characters harder to adapt to since PS decided to remove some beneficial moves (Alpha Patroklos), and made some characters....."new-player" friendly (Natsu, Siegfried, Nightmare). A little too new-player friendly.

As an Asuka player, I tend to use a lot of moves from her. I try to break away from the minimal selection of moves that are "Good for tournament matches" or "Good for online". This was why PS even did this to SCV, among other reasons (to "convert" new players, or casuals, to become interested in playing the game, and in the future, interested in playing at tournaments). This is probably why VF is always overlooked too in the West because the small roster's movesets can be pretty complex.

Will reducing the moveset make the game "better"? Not really, and from what I see, they aren't even planning on it. They do need to reduce the roster though, budget/hardware-wise, but it seems they are capable to making a huge roster with little to no budget problems while maybe having some small, but mind issues with any glitches and such. I say Kudos to them for that.

 

[Ryuhza]

I like Tekken

I'm going to buy Tekken Tag Tournament when it comes out in September.

I'm going to play the characters I want.

I'm going to use the moves I want.


Fuck.