TerminatorCortez
[10] Knight
I feel you only a few are worth talking 2.
The Athiest Thread
- Thread starter ArcticKomodo
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KingAce
HERMITISM
I have had the privileged of arguing with some genuinely intelligent atheists before. The typical atheist however, just comes off as bitter and mad....very welcoming individuals.
Proof? There's no physical proof that God exists. Or at least, there's nothing anyone can physically present to you to study/experiment to confirm his existence.
But humans still find a way to believe in something that has no physical validity. Here's a perplexity. We can affirm that human beings just like the rest of life on Earth is a by product of the Universe. So according to natural law, human beings should be confined within the limits of said Universe. However, this isn't the case. Unlike animals human beings don't follow within the confines of any physical limits. Animals follow instinct, and that programming allows them to coexist with a perfectly functioning ecosystem. This isn't the case for humanity. Our programming comes off as chaotic, despite being by products of this planet we cannot coexist with the planet.
If you put a mountain in front of a man he climbs it, or builds a road around it. If you put him on an island he builds a ship and crosses the ocean. You put the sky above him, he builds an aircraft. He then builds a rocket to traverse outerspace. What the hell is humanity trying to do?
See the proof of God lies within humanity itself. In theology, the human body is the temple of God. No where else can one externally look to find him. Know thyself.
"I warn you, whoever you are...Oh, you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you be able to find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures.
Oh, man, know thyself and thou shall know the Universe and the Gods!"
Phrase inscribed in the ancient Temple of Delphi.
We're objective, but also very subjective beings. And in this subjective sense is where the concept of God manifests. See if we were only objective beings, and this God didn't not exists. I cannot see how our minds could perceive beyond the Universe that has given us form. Our thoughts most definitely supersede this universe. And I am not one to conclude that our thoughts came from no where. I believe everything has a source.
The path to God is not simply paved with intellectual faith; it is paved with experienced faith. I cannot prove to you the existence of God, since only those that go looking for It ever find It.
TerminatorCortez
[10] Knight
I approve this message!!! +1
Jrasta111
[11] Champion
More? I say more, it's definitely just a coincidence how easily I came across these. No acts of God here, unless he decided irony and comedy here were the way forward. Not impossible, anyway...
Crappy video, only watch if you like the song
Better video
Ironic that an atheist thread should be such a pile of nothing... Oh wait, no it isn't.
Stop throwing off my sense of irony.
UnseenWombat
[14] Master
It's interesting that you latch on to the one thing that's of the least importance to the discussion and ignore the actual conclusions.
See, that's the problem. You look at the evidence with "the antecedent assumption that it must be false," and whatever evidence you're given is deficient.
I'm not sure what evidence you're expecting. Synalon posted earlier in the thread that since it was an event that seemingly defied the laws of nature, it "requires some extraordinary evidence." You want super-evidence. Well there isn't any, there's only the normal historical evidence that's been used to determine the veracity of all kinds of other events that you don't have any problem with because they don't challenge your beliefs. And even though the evidence we have is very, very good, by historical standards, you still want more.
I think it's perfectly obvious that no amount of evidence would be enough for you. You're hopeless, but the reason I post is so that if some confused soul, who might stumble across this thread and who does have an open mind, is looking for answers he won't see nothing but your close-minded refusal to see the facts.
The historical evidence is there, you're not going to find it on Infidels.org, or atheists.org, or rationalwiki.com, or any of the other atheism-bent sites, because they, like moneymuffins, would rather pretend that it's somehow worse than other evidence that we accept without question regarding other historical events, or, like Synalon, that super-evidence is required.
Yes, I told you it was a merry-go-round. I post an article, you post an article to the contrary, then I post another and around and around we go. "Of making many books there is no end." Ecclesiastes 12:12.
It's difficult to come to a consensus when the atheist side makes such unreasonable demands for evidence. You asked for some, I gave it to you, and you say it's not good enough. It's better than most evidence we have from history! With such an emotionally charged subject, is it any wonder that people who disbelieve it will ignore the facts that they do have to justify their own belief?
The Landslide
[13] Hero
Without a doubt. I have quite a few atheists in my circle of friends, roughly half of them in fact. It has nothing to do with their beliefs and everything to do with their respect and character. I'm not friends with Christians who are rude assholes either... it just makes sense.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
WHAT ARE ALL THESE THEISTS DOING IN THE ATHEIST THREAD?
ARE YOU SO IMPRESSED THAT I SINGLE-HANDEDLY TOOK ALL THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM YOUR CHRISTIANITY DISCUSSION?
LOL U MAD?
ARE YOU SO IMPRESSED THAT I SINGLE-HANDEDLY TOOK ALL THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM YOUR CHRISTIANITY DISCUSSION?
LOL U MAD?
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
The Landslide
[13] Hero
<3 you Vints. Note that I'm not referring to you, I love your schtick.
Kvasir
[10] Knight
Sorry, I have to come in just to be technical again.
There's nothing that can challenge or justify atheistic beliefs. There are no such things. Please stop writing things like that, it hits me like nails on a chalk board.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
@kingace
I'm not trying to derail your post, after all, it was well written and I even agree with some of the things you say.
However...
"Our thoughts most definitely supersede this universe"
I have a problem with this statement. Without experience of any kind, the human mind is then Tabula Rasa (or blank slate). You cannot separate experience from who we are. Using God as an example, if I for some reason had never been exposed to this concept, I would have never known what it is. Same thing with just about any other concept in life.
So how can our thoughts supersede the physical world if our minds are dependent on our experiences? I don't doubt for a second that human beings have an amazing imagination, creativity, and cleverness. The reason that a marooned person stuck on a island builds a boat is NOT because his mind supersedes the universe, but rather his reason, common sense, and being able to visualize the final result, enables him to invent such amazing things.
As for human beings, we are such a complicated and convoluted race that it's no surprise that we developed a vivid imagination. Intelligence leads to creativity and innovation, creativity leads to imagination, and imagination leads to fantasy. It's the sole reason why human beings are the only animals on earth who engage in fantasy fiction.
I don't see this as being special, I see this as simply the fact that human beings are smarter than all other animals. Think of fantasy and creativity as by-products of an advanced brain development.
Don't take this as me not respecting you, on the contrary, I happen to respect you more than most on this site:)
I'm not trying to derail your post, after all, it was well written and I even agree with some of the things you say.
However...
"Our thoughts most definitely supersede this universe"
I have a problem with this statement. Without experience of any kind, the human mind is then Tabula Rasa (or blank slate). You cannot separate experience from who we are. Using God as an example, if I for some reason had never been exposed to this concept, I would have never known what it is. Same thing with just about any other concept in life.
So how can our thoughts supersede the physical world if our minds are dependent on our experiences? I don't doubt for a second that human beings have an amazing imagination, creativity, and cleverness. The reason that a marooned person stuck on a island builds a boat is NOT because his mind supersedes the universe, but rather his reason, common sense, and being able to visualize the final result, enables him to invent such amazing things.
As for human beings, we are such a complicated and convoluted race that it's no surprise that we developed a vivid imagination. Intelligence leads to creativity and innovation, creativity leads to imagination, and imagination leads to fantasy. It's the sole reason why human beings are the only animals on earth who engage in fantasy fiction.
I don't see this as being special, I see this as simply the fact that human beings are smarter than all other animals. Think of fantasy and creativity as by-products of an advanced brain development.
Don't take this as me not respecting you, on the contrary, I happen to respect you more than most on this site:)
Lasercakes
[12] Conqueror
The typical atheist or the typical atheist on the internet?
No we moved past the bar where we set it. If physical limits could be surpassed they wouldn't be physical limits.
I think it's a mistake to view humanity as a single entity. Is this a greater purpose you believe in?
Recalling what you've said before about the form of God in your other posts, this idea doesn't offend me or even rub me the wrong way. So what exactly do you have to gain from finding God?
Are we talking about the abstract or human experience maybe? Whether they are part of this universe or not you will still concede they are still part of existence right? Existence is confined to natural law whether we can observe it, know about it, or even comprehend it or not.
Lasercakes
[12] Conqueror
Your science is a bit outdated dude. :/
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
Atheism VS Theism is not about who has to prove what, it's about what is justifiably reasonable, and what you believe. Neither side can prove themselves right, nor can they prove the other wrong.
At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself "At what point is the evidence strong enough for me to believe in it?" I don't need "proof" that there's no god, all I need is enough evidence to say "that's good enough for me".
Sure, evolution is not without flaws. But give scientists enough time, and they may figure out those "holes". There was once a point where scientists believed that tape worms were a good way to lose weight, science has come a long way, and yet it still has mountains to climb.
At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself "At what point is the evidence strong enough for me to believe in it?" I don't need "proof" that there's no god, all I need is enough evidence to say "that's good enough for me".
Sure, evolution is not without flaws. But give scientists enough time, and they may figure out those "holes". There was once a point where scientists believed that tape worms were a good way to lose weight, science has come a long way, and yet it still has mountains to climb.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
WIthout experience there is no mind. How is that outdated?
Kvasir
[10] Knight
Almost all the more vocal atheist are people who used to be religious, and it seems some of them have decent reasons to be bitter, but it's not really right to call them the typical atheist.
You probably don't hear from other atheist often because we don't believe in god the way that people don't go on tours of rural neighborhoods. It's just not something you'd think to do.
Lasercakes
[12] Conqueror
JDub
Mmm. Pie.
I still have to bite my tongue or act like I believe or at least agree with religion on a daily basis. For business and social benefits. I have to lie to Christians. If I don't lie they make life difficult if not impossible. This is a thread where I can feel free from the imposition of the unthinking majority. Sort of... I mean, there's a constant flow of illogical bullshit citing illogical bullshit to prove illogical bullshit. Which gets old. You can explain it however you want but the basis is you think people are so invaluable that supremely powerful beings are fighting a proxy war over our souls. So, some people get eternity in a land of sunshine and rainbows while others get tossed into a pit of fire. For eternity. Seems pretty pointless to me. Then what? God defeats Satan? For what, a trophy? An eternity with us? Yipppeee!
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY? THAT I’M NOT A LOVEABLE, HUGGABLE TYPE OF GUY?
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
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