Alan-ere
[09] Warrior
HILDE forever
:D
=]
:D
=]
The future of Algol, Hilde and Star Wars
- Thread starter Angrel-San
- Start date
ChaCha
[10] Knight
At this point I am all for doing whatever keeps this community going.
To the Pro keeping Algol and Hilde:
It's clear these characters can be beaten in a competitive format, but at what cost to the community, would the advantage of keeping them in provide? If ANY of you can honestly and CANDILY state "I don't know any players who have quit the game over these characters being allowed in tournies, or have never seen a new players be turned off by seeing their shenanigans." Then present your argument.
The argument for banning them is simple- In the long run will we be gaining more as a community by having them gone? If so, what do we lose from banning them?
To the people against banning them:
If they are kept in, go unpatched (which is likely), what futures do you possibly see for this game? Do you not see the continued diminishment of the community? Do you not see players turn their back on this game because of the characters existence in competitive formats? Do you think that banning them make us look bad as a community?
The main argument for banning them is: Most people have been reluctant to pick up and master these characters, as they are frowned upon ib general as 'cheap' or 'broken'. If we keep them, and more players come to the realization that the best way to optimize their chances for winning is to MASTER these characters (which few to none have done yet) will these characters utterly ruin the tourney scene?
It hasn't happened yet, but if there is no longer an argument against them, would every top player be stupid NOT to start abusing their truly top tier shit and nothing else? Is the mantra of "Man up and learn how to beat it, or don't compete" really going to save the community?
Those are the questions that need answers.
discuss.
To the Pro keeping Algol and Hilde:
It's clear these characters can be beaten in a competitive format, but at what cost to the community, would the advantage of keeping them in provide? If ANY of you can honestly and CANDILY state "I don't know any players who have quit the game over these characters being allowed in tournies, or have never seen a new players be turned off by seeing their shenanigans." Then present your argument.
The argument for banning them is simple- In the long run will we be gaining more as a community by having them gone? If so, what do we lose from banning them?
To the people against banning them:
If they are kept in, go unpatched (which is likely), what futures do you possibly see for this game? Do you not see the continued diminishment of the community? Do you not see players turn their back on this game because of the characters existence in competitive formats? Do you think that banning them make us look bad as a community?
The main argument for banning them is: Most people have been reluctant to pick up and master these characters, as they are frowned upon ib general as 'cheap' or 'broken'. If we keep them, and more players come to the realization that the best way to optimize their chances for winning is to MASTER these characters (which few to none have done yet) will these characters utterly ruin the tourney scene?
It hasn't happened yet, but if there is no longer an argument against them, would every top player be stupid NOT to start abusing their truly top tier shit and nothing else? Is the mantra of "Man up and learn how to beat it, or don't compete" really going to save the community?
Those are the questions that need answers.
discuss.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm an Algol player, but I honestly don't feel he should have been banned to begin with. I also feel the same for hilde not needing to be banned. I know that it severely turned me off to the soul calibur community in general when Algol got banned and for a good while I refused to travel for SC4 tournaments. With Algol being unbanned and people finally learning how to fight against Hilde instead of bitching about it I started playing the game again and traveling. I like competition and if the community is against learning how to fight against certain characters because of just plain laziness then I don't want to be a part of that community.
BatousaiNori
[10] Knight
No reason to ban anything IMO. People need to learn how to fight everything. What happened to the hardcore players who didn't complain and wanted to be the best? Doesn't seem like many people in the SC community want this. If you just want a social network w/out traveling, sign up for facebook.
Rekano
:O
PhilBond
[09] Warrior
Newcomers to a competetive game will be turned off by a few things:
The most basic challenge of high-level competition, and their likely poor early performance.
The complexity and jargon of learning to be better.
And something that not all games have a problem with: lack of confidence in what appears to be an in-flux set of mysteriously arbitrated add-on rules, deviating from the rules that they thought had been put forth by the game itself.
The most basic challenge of high-level competition, and their likely poor early performance.
The complexity and jargon of learning to be better.
And something that not all games have a problem with: lack of confidence in what appears to be an in-flux set of mysteriously arbitrated add-on rules, deviating from the rules that they thought had been put forth by the game itself.
Ooofmatic
World Warrior
This community seems to love banning characters based on theory alone, and always goes with the "guilty until proven innocent" approach. It sickens me.
Algol originally got banned because of it, until people realized he wasn't as bad, and now it's Hilde's turn.
People want to ban Hilde now because they have this theory that she is the main cause of the community's demise. And people are bringing up the idea that we should ban her, until she's proven "innocent" within a few months if things don't changed due to the ban.
But who's to say the community wouldn't be pretty much in the same situation if Hilde wasn't in the game? In my opinion other fighting games such as SF4, BB, and soon Tekken, had a greater negative effect on the community than Hilde. People move on to the more popular games, it happens. All we can do now is continue supporting the scene, and rather than banning characters based on theory alone, teach people how to better fight them.
Until Broken Destiny comes out on console our community will slowly lose activity thanks to all these other new games that people are getting into. It's inevitable.
Algol originally got banned because of it, until people realized he wasn't as bad, and now it's Hilde's turn.
People want to ban Hilde now because they have this theory that she is the main cause of the community's demise. And people are bringing up the idea that we should ban her, until she's proven "innocent" within a few months if things don't changed due to the ban.
But who's to say the community wouldn't be pretty much in the same situation if Hilde wasn't in the game? In my opinion other fighting games such as SF4, BB, and soon Tekken, had a greater negative effect on the community than Hilde. People move on to the more popular games, it happens. All we can do now is continue supporting the scene, and rather than banning characters based on theory alone, teach people how to better fight them.
Until Broken Destiny comes out on console our community will slowly lose activity thanks to all these other new games that people are getting into. It's inevitable.
Psylocide
[09] Warrior
The banishment discussion needs to end. EVO and Nats are over, and look what happened.
I agree with Oof... people will slowly shift interest to new games, it happens. I mean... SC4 is barely a year old and people are asking about SC5 and begging for more content. With this kind of impatience, a lot of people will be letting go of Soul Calibur for some time.
That is all.
I agree with Oof... people will slowly shift interest to new games, it happens. I mean... SC4 is barely a year old and people are asking about SC5 and begging for more content. With this kind of impatience, a lot of people will be letting go of Soul Calibur for some time.
That is all.
Ooofmatic
World Warrior
That point is viewed as irrelevant to the people who currently still want to ban her. They don't want to ban her based on balance, but rather to "save the community" and to not have people who don't know or want to learn how to fight her get turned off by the game.
But like I said in my earlier post, SF4 damaged the community way more than Hilde did. Many people would have moved to focus on that game regardless if Hilde was in the game or not. The damage Hilde did to the community is minuscule compared to what SF4 did.
People have this theory that Hilde alone turned off hundreds of people from the game. But I have a feeling that number is much, much smaller. And now if we ban her we're gonna be losing Hilde players. The "save the community" Hilde ban movement will be ironic because it will probably only hurt it more.
Psylocide
[09] Warrior
Wouldn't that be better for the community? Get people in here discussing how to deal with those things? I mean... that's what I came here for. But, no one wants to put in any effort, just bounce to the "next new thing" and see if they are magically good at it.
Alan-ere
[09] Warrior
If they dont want to learn to fight her they shouldnt play in these tournaments thats just being lazy XD
NinjaCW
[09] Warrior
I think of it like this; all these other players that will come back if Algol, Hilde, SW's are gone will just quit when the next characters that get on their nerves are raping them.
NO ONE will play this game if characters are banned because SCRUBS don't want to learn how to fight against her. Yes this community is small but the players you get after banning will just be temporary players at best till the next new thing comes out.
The bottom line is it has been proven not once but TWICE that these characters can (and will) be beaten in competitive play. You don't want cry babies in your game cause there will always be something they have to cry about.
IMO once you ban the characters it still won't matter who plays this game, other than a few people who come back just to quit it for t6. The game has been out for a year and Hilde, Algol, or SW's doesn't break the game in any way it's just a "different" match up.
NO ONE will play this game if characters are banned because SCRUBS don't want to learn how to fight against her. Yes this community is small but the players you get after banning will just be temporary players at best till the next new thing comes out.
The bottom line is it has been proven not once but TWICE that these characters can (and will) be beaten in competitive play. You don't want cry babies in your game cause there will always be something they have to cry about.
IMO once you ban the characters it still won't matter who plays this game, other than a few people who come back just to quit it for t6. The game has been out for a year and Hilde, Algol, or SW's doesn't break the game in any way it's just a "different" match up.
BatousaiNori
[10] Knight
I think a lot of people quit because of Hilde, and let them, who cares? I'm not going to change my view on the game simply because they weren't good enough to figure out how to beat her. The homerun point that nobody can dodge is how can you ban a char that didn't even get top 3 at Evo OR Nats, when the best 2 Hildes were there? Like Oof said, other games are to blame, and Namco doesn't give SC the respect it gives Tekken as far as patches and updates and add ons.
They haven't even ANNOUNCED if BD was coming to console or not, so as far as I see it, we should all play the game we have and continue to improve on it. There is no game like SC, and if people think Tekken is any easier, have fun fighting Steve in T6 BR, cause the fact is, EVERY SINGLE GAME has a char that is over powered.
They haven't even ANNOUNCED if BD was coming to console or not, so as far as I see it, we should all play the game we have and continue to improve on it. There is no game like SC, and if people think Tekken is any easier, have fun fighting Steve in T6 BR, cause the fact is, EVERY SINGLE GAME has a char that is over powered.
Alan-ere
[09] Warrior
good job i never really cared for tekken then =)
Eyce_Theon
[09] Warrior
What they don't realize is that their "save the community" bitching is really giving the game a bad reputation for new players who are thinking about getting into the scene. More than once I've heard new players tell me they've heard how uber-broken Hilde is, and how they'd rather play SF4. The few chances I've had to sit down with new players with bad impressions and show them the game myself, I've made new fans of the series.
If you want to "save the community", go show people how cool the game is. Going around screaming for bans for beatable characters does nothing but turn off new players while giving the ones we have a headache.
If you want to "save the community", go show people how cool the game is. Going around screaming for bans for beatable characters does nothing but turn off new players while giving the ones we have a headache.
BatousaiNori
[10] Knight
Also, this seems to be common sense, but I guess it isn't:
Next time somebody wins a tournament and can speak about the game, especially when it's live streamed and people are watching, try to hype the game up and explain how great we all think it is.
Next time somebody wins a tournament and can speak about the game, especially when it's live streamed and people are watching, try to hype the game up and explain how great we all think it is.
Rekano
:O
BR has quite a few strong characters, Steve EASILY is one of them. But as of now(at this moment), NONE of them are "overpowered". Quite frank, the team behind Tekken actually shows they give a fuck.
And Hilde isn't overpowered either. Just strong. You have to THINK a bit more.
As a side note, Im all for allowing Bonus Characters into future events...Shura ftw.
GEMINI_KNIGHT
[09] Warrior
OK
After seeing an Algol player in action, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way that Algol should be banned.
In the past 25+ days, I have seen Hilde, Algol, and Vader played by some of the best players around. I have also seen players play against these characters in question, and showed that they know how to matchup and emerge victorious against those characters.
Obviously, not everyone saw the EVO and Nats streams, but you would think that word of mouth would travel around this site, and folks would open their eyes. Oh well, looks like I got to do it 2007 style, and upload vids to put the community up in arms again.
You would think that leaving the "other site" would make playing this game a little bit easier...
After seeing an Algol player in action, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way that Algol should be banned.
In the past 25+ days, I have seen Hilde, Algol, and Vader played by some of the best players around. I have also seen players play against these characters in question, and showed that they know how to matchup and emerge victorious against those characters.
Obviously, not everyone saw the EVO and Nats streams, but you would think that word of mouth would travel around this site, and folks would open their eyes. Oh well, looks like I got to do it 2007 style, and upload vids to put the community up in arms again.
You would think that leaving the "other site" would make playing this game a little bit easier...
iKotomi
[10] Knight
Isn't it possible that newcomers are turned off by Hilde because we as a community have blown it up to an issue of stupid proportions? From all the whining you hear, you would think that Hilde is some God character, when in reality she is no worse than the top tiers you see in other games.
Of course if the only thing you hear about is some god character that you have no chance fighting against, you're going to be turned off. There's equally overpowered characters in other games, and there's whining in them too, but the resounding voice of their communities is to just learn to deal with it.
Furthermore, the whining started way too early. Algol was banned after he won one tournament. Doesn't matter that the player himself was really good in the first place. After Hilde won one tournament in Cali, the boards flooded with ban hilde cries, and people crying for bans in order to save the community. Quite frankly, if people are willing to call for bans that soon without allowing time for counters to develop, there are bigger problems with the community than what characters are allowed.
Finally, how many people actually use Hilde and win with them? RTD, Ceirnian, and KDZaster are the only people I have read about consistently doing well. Are three individuals single-handedly destroying the SC community? Someone with better knowledge of the scene explain this to me, because as more or less an outsider, it looks really stupid.
Of course if the only thing you hear about is some god character that you have no chance fighting against, you're going to be turned off. There's equally overpowered characters in other games, and there's whining in them too, but the resounding voice of their communities is to just learn to deal with it.
Furthermore, the whining started way too early. Algol was banned after he won one tournament. Doesn't matter that the player himself was really good in the first place. After Hilde won one tournament in Cali, the boards flooded with ban hilde cries, and people crying for bans in order to save the community. Quite frankly, if people are willing to call for bans that soon without allowing time for counters to develop, there are bigger problems with the community than what characters are allowed.
Finally, how many people actually use Hilde and win with them? RTD, Ceirnian, and KDZaster are the only people I have read about consistently doing well. Are three individuals single-handedly destroying the SC community? Someone with better knowledge of the scene explain this to me, because as more or less an outsider, it looks really stupid.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
Wait wait wait wait wait.
So you guys are telling me the following:
A) Our community is SMALL (agree)
B) Outside influences have harmed our game more than Hilde/Algol(SF4/T6)
So far, your right and I agree. Now heres where it get dicey to me.
The portion of this we DO have control over is bans, We can't control T6 or SF4.
Bearing that in mind, this new call for a ban is REGIONAL in nature. NJ and NE are the only places currently considering it. Nobody is asking your community to do it. If substantial improvement is shown over the course of X amount of time, then I'd say strap on your humble pie eating bibs.
If it's not, I got my bib right here. I say to you, what do we lose that we haven't already lost by trying? Outside perception of our game already sucks. I don't think we can make it "worse".
-Idle
So you guys are telling me the following:
A) Our community is SMALL (agree)
B) Outside influences have harmed our game more than Hilde/Algol(SF4/T6)
So far, your right and I agree. Now heres where it get dicey to me.
The portion of this we DO have control over is bans, We can't control T6 or SF4.
Bearing that in mind, this new call for a ban is REGIONAL in nature. NJ and NE are the only places currently considering it. Nobody is asking your community to do it. If substantial improvement is shown over the course of X amount of time, then I'd say strap on your humble pie eating bibs.
If it's not, I got my bib right here. I say to you, what do we lose that we haven't already lost by trying? Outside perception of our game already sucks. I don't think we can make it "worse".
-Idle