The Return of G2?

crow_winters

[11] Champion
This is possibly/PROBABLY character specific, but I thought I'd make this thread just to get other people to keep their eyes open. Multiple eyes are better then one/mine.

So I was fiddling around and found out that Darth Vader's 6BB~G string, part of what keeps him so competitive, is duckable (2Gable) even though you're locked in blockstun. The move animates like it always does, but the second B will always miss you even though your standing. If it didn't look so glitchy it wouldn't be worth talking about, but it does, and it is. 2G renders this string useless now, as even if darth does 6BB~G unblockable cancel, the 2Ging enemy gets at least free AAs. You never actually enter ducking animation- the second B simply goes right through you, and you recover instantly and get free attacks.

I think this might be important because we've had reports of people blocking NC and NCC strings that weren't supposed to blocked, or combos that shouldn't be able to blocked and were (X command grab, for example) and mids that don't hit mid (Hilde's crouch charge string, Algol 1B at tip). This coupled with Yoda being unable to block low during certain strings really makes me wonder what's lurking under the code.
 

Jaxel

Administrator
Crow... thats not what the 2G glitch was in SC2. 2G let people GUARD in situations where they couldn't guard; like after getting GI'd, or after transitioning into a stance. It basically gave people 3 frames of defense when they are supposed to be undefensable for 17 frames.

It sounds like you are explaining something called "Fuzzy Guard"; which has been in the game for a while. In Virtua Fighter 5, its specifically programed to lets people block mid, AND duck throws at the same time. However, we can all agree that Soulcalibur is nowhere near programmed as well; so more than likely, Fuzzy Guarding lets people block mid and duck ANYTHING (not just throws) at the same time. Project Soul is full of shitty programmers, we know this.
 

crow_winters

[11] Champion
Hm. I thought 2G was also lumped in with things like X's 3AK having things pass through the enemy even on hit, etc? I thought the 2G bug was the cause of both the, say, GI 2G, and stuff like this. Since they were both done with 2G.

Guess I'm wrong. Oh well. :)
 

Jaxel

Administrator
Okay... if you can block the second hit of X's command grab... then yes, thats SC2 G2...

Would really suck too... To get rid of G2, they created VC in SC3...
To get rid of VC, they got rid of while-landing moves, advance/retreat guard in SC4...

And then G2 is back? God damn Project Soul is full of a bunch of retards.
 

Malice

Super Moderator
YES. I love this series, but still... What the fuck are they actually doing when they play test their games?

Play testing? Scerew that. Instead of play testing, Project Soul is ______.

A. Getting drunk
B. At a hostess bar getting drunk
C. Looking at hentai
D. Whatever funny shit you can fill in that blank with
E. All of the above
 

KowtowRobinson

[10] Knight
So is 2Ging through Kilik's 6AAA pretty much the same concept?

No, the third hit of that move is supposed to be duckable. We're talking about strings that aren't normally duckable. You're not holding 2g to duck normally, if I understand this right. You're timing a 2g input with a part of a string to make it miss through you, without actually crouching. The Yoda issue was him not being able to guard some mid/low strings normally, he had to time a 2g to block them, similar to a GI.

It'll be interesting to see how this develops. At least we didn't find it one week into the game, lol.
 

D.I.N.O

[11] Champion
I agree that there is a "jf" input for G2 that allows it make ANYTHING WHIFF

Its happened more than often when I'm playing an X or Cass and Horizontal mids or even LOWS were whiffing becuz I timed my duck really late.

I have also seen the 2nd hit of X's command throw get Blocked.

I've also witnessed a whiffed GI and whiffed Move even though it looked like the GI was timed perfectly.

But this is soul cal...we're used to this.
 

kAb

[12] Conqueror
depends.

i liked SC2 2G.

did not like SC3 VC.

GI system is different in SC4 so i dont know how much the Sc2 2G would benefit. only time will tell i guess
 

AMillionHP

[13] Hero
This is interesting. Come to think of it, i've seen good players "just-crouch" some of my Ivy ICS's. It looked weird, like not a real crouch but more like a half-crouch and very fast. It really appeared to me as some kind of auto-avoid, or definitely a glitch of some sort because as i saw it, i thought to myself that timing such a thing is humanly impossible. Especially online.
 

Jaxel

Administrator
This is interesting. Come to think of it, i've seen good players "just-crouch" some of my Ivy ICS's. It looked weird, like not a real crouch but more like a half-crouch and very fast. It really appeared to me as some kind of auto-avoid, or definitely a glitch of some sort because as i saw it, i thought to myself that timing such a thing is humanly impossible. Especially online.
Now thats FUZZY GUARD... not a bug.

In the video below, Pai attacks and is blocked. Then you will see Pai duck, yet still block Aoi's mid attack. Then Pai attacks again, and is blocked. Then Pai ducks, and avoids Aoi's throw. A Fuzzy Guard lets a player duck to avoid a throw, and block a mid, at the same time.
[YouTube=Virtua Fighter 5 tutorial by Srider: Fuzzy Guarding]fMOPScxkQfM[/YouTube]
The difference is, in VF, it takes time to go from crouching to standing, so you can see the person do a twitch duck. In Soulcalibur, a player can go from crouching to standing, and vice-versa in a single frame. So sometimes you cant even see the duck. With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if with fuzzy guarding in SC4, you could duck a high (not just a throw), and block a mid at the same time.
 

KowtowRobinson

[10] Knight
Now thats FUZZY GUARD... not a bug.

In Soulcalibur, a player can go from crouching to standing, and vice-versa in a single frame. So sometimes you cant even see the duck. With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if with fuzzy guarding in SC4, you could duck a high (not just a throw), and block a mid at the same time.

If that's the case, it's not really anything new, and it'd be extremely difficult to time. Which would make it much less of a problem, G2 and VC weren't all that difficult to time in the applications we saw in tournies. It was theory stuff, like VCing out of a GI so fast you could attack the opponent first, that was possible but ultimately too difficult to use.

Where it would be a new glitch, is in strings where a hit is not normally duckable, but is thanks to this jf 2g input. 1frame ducking a high/throw isn't a glitch, that's just a product of the system.
 

ivylicious

[08] Mercenary
Now thats FUZZY GUARD... not a bug.

In the video below, Pai attacks and is blocked. Then you will see Pai duck, yet still block Aoi's mid attack. Then Pai attacks again, and is blocked. Then Pai ducks, and avoids Aoi's throw. A Fuzzy Guard lets a player duck to avoid a throw, and block a mid, at the same time.
[YouTube=Virtua Fighter 5 tutorial by Srider: Fuzzy Guarding]fMOPScxkQfM[/YouTube]
The difference is, in VF, it takes time to go from crouching to standing, so you can see the person do a twitch duck. In Soulcalibur, a player can go from crouching to standing, and vice-versa in a single frame. So sometimes you cant even see the duck. With this in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if with fuzzy guarding in SC4, you could duck a high (not just a throw), and block a mid at the same time.
Is that mid and the throw even the same frames? If not then thats just timing your duck to go under the throw period, if you did a mid that was the same amount of frames as a throw, i bet it would hit.