The Siegfried Q & A thread

Isaiah

[10] Knight
Its Ok, you're knew so I'll let you know how it works in a SA. =)

First and foremost, 8wayrun is a community site for the competitive SC community. By competitive I mean tournament play and offline competition in general. Casual players are just as welcome as the hardcore, but in SA's the input is strictly a focused section for practical use, 99% of the time for offline. As such, everything goes under the assumption that you are playing offline to tournament standard: Standard vs. (No stat changes or abilities) 3 rounds to win, 60 seconds.

If you play Special versus, that's cool - it doesn't get enough rep here if you ask me, but if you have ideas about that sort of thing - I recommend going here. You might find some buddies to take you on in special, who knows?
In any case - in the SCIV SA's, we try to stick to solid theory and hardcore based subjects, friend.

Welcome to the Siegfried SA in any case bro.
Thanks. I already knew you guys were competitive. I had it coming from some person and people were sending me so much stuff it maid no scence. Just because i said something bad about Hilde. *Sigh* Anyways i appreciate it. I do normal versus mode as well.Still, thank you bro. Im going to follow you if you dont mind.

IZZY
 

Wid0maker

[10] Knight
Thanks everyone for the responses. That's one thing I like about 8wr is the amount of people who are willing to help with any problems/questions :) Unfortunately, I don't have a way to record my matches to submit for feedback atm and no one I know locally plays SC4 as much as I do, so I'm pretty much forced to get 99% of my experience online :/

As far as self scrutinizing my Sieg play, one thing I've noticed is that I've kind of subconsciously fallen in love with 22_88 B and it's kind of hurt me in some situations, but I have toned it back though. I do also sometimes get stance happy and I have the tendency to get impatient and try to interrupt the opponent's attacks, like using B6 for example. I'm working on my patience though lol. Another thing is that I've had problems with but have improved on is being able to consistently do Aga: I'd do the input too fast and end up whiffing a throw and then get punished. I had kind of a eureka moment the other day that I found a more reliable way to use it. I still have problems with characters who basically swarm me, which is a question I asked earlier in this thread. Oh, and I absolutely LOATHE Amy...a part inside me dies every time i face off against her. Ivy and Sophie I'm a little more comfortable against, but that may be because most of those players I go against aren't extremely good.

One of my biggest obstacles is actually myself: my nerves play hell on my gameplay. For example, I competed in a tournament in 2009 (double elimination, best 2 of 3 matches) and the first of the three matches I used Sophie and just kept on spamming 236B, and ended up getting torn to shreds. I picked Sieg, came back and ended up getting place 7th overall out of 35 competitors.

I'll just spam Aga all day and kill....everyone >:) lol
 

Synraii

[14] Master
I LOVE fighting Amy with Siegfried - I feel like I'm in control, not her in that matchup.
This will help

Credit to Belial for this masterpiece.
 

Synraii

[14] Master
No worries bro - Amy used to put me through hell, but I don't find her scary at all any more tbh =/
Make sure to learn the JUKEs after AS KK and 66:B air hit though - essential stuff IMO.
 

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
I disagree, Heaton.

Fucking British people. :P

To elaborate, it's not that I personally find him to be a bad character, it's just that he has a lot of weaknesses that characters who are much more prolific in use (Ivy, Sophitia, Amy for those of us who aren't British) have an extremely easy time shutting down. You also have to remember that jagA IS a high, which Sophitia's angel step goes under, and that even though 33(B) is technically safe at tip on block (not against Raph! suck that 6BB!), getting the majority of characters to stay there is not easy since that is always going to be Siegfried's optimal range - 3(B), agA, B6, 3A all have very similar ranges, and any good player is not going to let you just chill at Coolfried range. That's like saying you can win with Rock because you can loop his throws infinitely against dumb people.

As far as everyone else goes, though...it's mostly 5:5's here, a 4:6 here and there, some 6:4's, etc; and on paper you should be able to hold your own very nicely against the majority of the roster. But as you said, it's good to have another character ready for when you inevitably face Sophitia or Ivy, or whatever other character you're terrible against as Sieg.

I just realized I might be playing Raphael for all of DEV.
 

Synraii

[14] Master
ag:A is indeed a high - if you tech duck it I've basically missed a free CH 33B and deserve to get bitchslapped. =/
 

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Indeed. You can't get complacent with JagA.

On the subject of secondary characters: who is your "Go-to" for when you don't like the match-up Siegfried gives against certain characters?

For me, it's Raphael, just because it's much easier to play defensively with Raphael's options than it is with Siegfried. Not to mention whiff punishing is pretty simple with Raphael (3(B) Prep BB, 6B(B) Prep mixup), and he can space pretty well with his arsenal.
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
well i don't think i can really contribute to this discussion heaton...i don't really have a secondary or anything i don't think...though you guys would probably know me better in that situation than i do. I just siegfried it out against all matchups - including sophie. only way i really know how to play.
 

lespaulphoenix

[10] Knight
Hey guys! recently, i've discovered I'm a bit of a visual learner, so i guess the reason i've been so slow to learn is that my brain has a hard time applying from notation. I've learned quite a bit from vids. (especially the gem that from Pantocrator) I'm curious as to if there are some other instructionals on Siegfried I might be able to peak at so, in my hands, he wouldnt suffer as much as a Demon's Soul's character. (poor guy.) Thanks alot in advance!
 

ZOMBIEBEAR666

[09] Warrior
Hey guys! recently, i've discovered I'm a bit of a visual learner, so i guess the reason i've been so slow to learn is that my brain has a hard time applying from notation. I've learned quite a bit from vids. (especially the gem that from Pantocrator) I'm curious as to if there are some other instructionals on Siegfried I might be able to peak at so, in my hands, he wouldnt suffer as much as a Demon's Soul's character. (poor guy.) Thanks alot in advance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfoxDT9iWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXPAwpVRRu8
Perhaps you can get more out of these, don't just look at it in terms of matchups, look at Slayer's spacing, etc...
 

Jink

[10] Knight
Hey guys! recently, i've discovered I'm a bit of a visual learner, so i guess the reason i've been so slow to learn is that my brain has a hard time applying from notation. I've learned quite a bit from vids. (especially the gem that from Pantocrator) I'm curious as to if there are some other instructionals on Siegfried I might be able to peak at so, in my hands, he wouldnt suffer as much as a Demon's Soul's character. (poor guy.) Thanks alot in advance!
I do zoning at tip range, but I got a few vids:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD6BB17D98EA543FE
well i don't think i can really contribute to this discussion heaton...i don't really have a secondary or anything i don't think...though you guys would probably know me better in that situation than i do. I just siegfried it out against all matchups - including sophie. only way i really know how to play.
Ooyea, that's right! To me is Sig vs all odds. I rarely use (without practice) Yun but its because its fun sometimes n_n
 

Wid0maker

[10] Knight
quick question: is there really any practical use for A+B? I use it every now and then to catch grounded opponents, but I'm not sure of any other use for it...Also, Synraii, I've seen you use 44BB after hitting SRSH B. Can't it be teched left or right? I usually follow up with 1AA if they're not too close to a wall or edge.
 

ZOMBIEBEAR666

[09] Warrior
quick question: is there really any practical use for A+B? I use it every now and then to catch grounded opponents, but I'm not sure of any other use for it...Also, Synraii, I've seen you use 44BB after hitting SRSH B. Can't it be teched left or right? I usually follow up with 1AA if they're not too close to a wall or edge.

Practically not really, it can be used in frame traps considering its i18, and going for the low is what really makes it safe... It can be used as a mild pressuring tactic to see if your opponent is on guard cause A+BA can be annoying to deal with at times... Well as for a poke it gets out classed by b6 in speed and 3A*4K in power, and for ground damage gets out classed by 3B*33B...

About SRSH B, 44BB - its not the best option and the last hit of 44BB cannot be teched I don't think (I don't remember).. You can use the 1AA combo you're familiar with or use 44{B} which gives you plenty of great options on wake-up... Matter of fact if 44{B} hits ground, SBH K is a tech trap against F/B/L/R, so if they stay down then 44BB would be "enforced" (if it is techable)...
 

Wid0maker

[10] Knight
Practically not really, it can be used in frame traps considering its i18, and going for the low is what really makes it safe... It can be used as a mild pressuring tactic to see if your opponent is on guard cause A+BA can be annoying to deal with at times... Well as for a poke it gets out classed by b6 in speed and 3A*4K in power, and for ground damage gets out classed by 3B*33B...

About SRSH B, 44BB - its not the best option and the last hit of 44BB cannot be teched I don't think (I don't remember).. You can use the 1AA combo you're familiar with or use 44{B} which gives you plenty of great options on wake-up... Matter of fact if 44{B} hits ground, SBH K is a tech trap against F/B/L/R, so if they stay down then 44BB would be "enforced" (if it is techable)...

ok, yeah, I didn't think A+B had many uses aside from tossing it out from time to time, but rarely, and like you said, there are other, better options.

I haven't used the 44BB in an actual match myself and I've experimented a little bit in training, but the second B usually seems to get blocked. I wasn't sure if it was because I might have been doing the input a little slow or whatnot. Actually 44{B} does seem like another good option to set up tech traps. I'll have to give it a try.

This is probably better asked in the combo thread but since I'm here, I'll ask here. I haven't found a way to but is there any way to work SBH{K} into a combo? Iirc, it's pretty safe on block and if it hits, it does a good amount of damage. It'd be awesome if there's a way to guarentee for it to hit.
 

ZOMBIEBEAR666

[09] Warrior
probably better asked in the combo thread but since I'm here, I'll ask here. I haven't found a way to but is there any way to work SBH{K} into a combo? Iirc, it's pretty safe on block and if it hits, it does a good amount of damage. It'd be awesome if there's a way to guarentee for it to hit.

After SRSH {K} you can do B+K~SBH {K} which will catch all rolling (not really a combo), and after CH SSH {B}(far), SBH {K} is a legit combo and does the most damage, however a;g;A instead can ring out or add damage from wall combos... Problem is you have pull out a few shenanigans if SSH {B} gets blocked seeing as its punishable, and its tough to hit confirm so not doing the SBH {K} combo is safer...

A wake-up tactic for 44{B}(ground) is to do 6B+K~SRSH for a mixup on wake-up with either SRSH B or SRSH {K}, if they stay down you can do another 6B+K dash or apply SRSH A+B to possibly catch rolls (I think it only catches one side)...
 

Jink

[10] Knight
I use A+B at tip range then SSH'A+B away from short ranged characters. VS Xianhua Taki, I've used A+B then GI-ed their AA with SSH'B's aGI. At ring edges or closed to wall after stunning with RSH'B I use A+B to ground combo, I get 3-hits plus SSH' wake advantage & close enough to SSH'A+B. I also used A+B to anti-air counter vs TJs & Taki's hover. The first hit of A+B slams down airborne rivals.
 

lespaulphoenix

[10] Knight
Hey, guys. LPP here with yet, of course. another question. (what a surprise). I was looking at the frame data for Siggy and thought. Wow. It might help to be able to look at the Frame Data and the move at the EXACT SAME TIME! There is only one problem here. My office and living room are 10 feet away from each other. This is quite impractical. Is there a place where i can find a printable version of Siggy's frame data for easier memorizing? I mean. I was looking at the wiki and... yeah.. it wouldnt copy and paste very well.
 

Synraii

[14] Master
Are you sure? I have a folder at home containing all of the SCIV frame data which I copy-pasted from the wiki.
I did notice Ivy's frame data on there is total BS though, lol.
 

Jink

[10] Knight
I have the frames embedded in my cerebellum since SC2.. last time I'd used paper was with VF4evo