The Siegfried Q & A thread

lespaulphoenix said:
Hey, guys. LPP here with yet, of course. another question. (what a surprise). I was looking at the frame data for Siggy and thought. Wow. It might help to be able to look at the Frame Data and the move at the EXACT SAME TIME! There is only one problem here. My office and living room are 10 feet away from each other. This is quite impractical. Is there a place where i can find a printable version of Siggy's frame data for easier memorizing? I mean. I was looking at the wiki and... yeah.. it wouldnt copy and paste very well.
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Set aside a couple hours of a day or so, and try writing it down... You'll find a deeper understanding upon actually working with the numbers rather than the Ol' copy/ paste/ print routine... If something strikes you as "odd" then you can feel free to retest or just check it out in training... Peace and Good Luck Man... (don't forget something to snack on)
 
Hey, guys. I'm a little curious if there are some relatively "quick equalizer moves" (i guess that's LPP language) in Seig's arsenal that will get guys off me at -. Ex: lately, when someone's getting a little antsy, i use 2G+A or 2B+G, 1+K and wr(B), 3B on whiff (and offline) GI's... Unfortunately, its only ideal that while on the defensive to GI. Its not practical at my level of skill to always GI when i need to. (Working on it, of course) i find myself more often than not, blocking for dear life, which in the long run leads to me getting Critical Finished. I'm rather good at losing, but i would enjoy winning a bit more lol. Any pointers?
 
I wouldn't personally recommend crouch grabs except for occasional use - low damage, blockable and unsafe. =/
At negative, it never hurts to test the water with 3B unless you're fighting the bitch (you know the one). Otherwise, my strategy is to throw the shitout of opponents at close range, forcing a grab/3B mixup. Heaton favours 1B instead though, lol. As for getting you off the hook at -, that's pretty vague tbh, can you give a more specific example, so I can help with that?
 
Synraii said:
Heaton favours 1B instead though, lol.
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Grabs mix up with 1B. Use both. A fun little thing - after A+G, a front step puts you at perfect range for both another grab or 1B if they tech left/right/forward/in place. This works because of Siegfried's vacuum grabs. And, if they tech backwards, they're in B6/2A range, which is a nice place to be as Siegfried.

But as you all probably know, poking with 1B isn't smart on paper. Even in practice, should only be used on people that A) You're positive will NOT punish it, or will punish it with something that doesn't give them advantage, and B) Are conditioned to ducking.

However, 1B works as a "poke" (can an i24 move be a poke?) because people overestimate its safety. As an example, any Sophitia player can TAS B you on a blocked 1B, and they even have an extra frame to do it - 1B is -16, TAS B is i15 at the fastest from a buffer. However, the amount of Sophitias that actually go for it, or even AS B, is surprisingly low - in my matches with Signia it was mostly AA or BB to punish me.

EDIT: If things stay mostly the same for SCV, I think I'll do a grabbing guide for Siegfried...
 
Synraii said:
I wouldn't personally recommend crouch grabs except for occasional use - low damage, blockable and unsafe. =/
At negative, it never hurts to test the water with 3B unless you're fighting the bitch (you know the one). Otherwise, my strategy is to throw the shitout of opponents at close range, forcing a grab/3B mixup. Heaton favours 1B instead though, lol. As for getting you off the hook at -, that's pretty vague tbh, can you give a more specific example, so I can help with that?
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I mean as i'm getting up, guys are playing anti wake up games, so when I do get up and I'm at -, all i know to do is wr A A, or the variations that are involved after inputting 22 insted of A, (the whole fake out deal) or I try to grab the other guy. (Assuming I dont get knocked down again). I'm concerned that there is more i could be doing...?

I do keep in mind, also, that I was playing online at the time where I was asking the question of what do i do at -. I didnt know the other guy was "lagging" (the game is changed so much by that shit, i consider dropping online completely)
 
lespaulphoenix said:
I mean as i'm getting up, guys are playing anti wake up games, so when I do get up and I'm at -
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Actually, you're not always at - on wakeup. certain KND moves can leave both parties at neutral or even you at advantage, for example:
Ivy ends a combo with SW 214K - effectively, both players are at -+0. In practce, if Amy was fighting Ivy and got 214K'd, she could instant wakeup into 6BB and CH her out of things like SW 3B so the best thing I can suggest is to head into practice and work with differant situations, that's what I do at least =/.
 
Synraii said:
Actually, you're not always at - on wakeup. certain KND moves can leave both parties at neutral or even you at advantage, for example:
Ivy ends a combo with SW 214K - effectively, both players are at -+0. In practce, if Amy was fighting Ivy and got 214K'd, she could instant wakeup into 6BB and CH her out of things like SW 3B so the best thing I can suggest is to head into practice and work with differant situations, that's what I do at least =/.
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Will do! Thanks, Synraii and Heaton!
 
Go to training & using record mode with the characters you want to defend against, figure & rehearse GIs, crouches, jumps, side steps, & back dashes in-between rivals strings. All of those works best at tip range, specially for 4B+K's back step & counter game.
Sig's moves that are -advantage are good to GI. Example: if you whiff punish your rival with b6 at tip range follow with 2A, after hit or counter Sig is at -adv, so Guard. Watch your rival's reactions to 2A, if they do moves like BB, 3B etc, then time your GI to sustain momentum between pokes exchange. If they do slower moves to punish if you GI, then do 6K, 6A to counter their mixup. Same goes for after 1K.
The -adv kinda makes it easier to GI (& even JI) the rival's retaliation, at least to me.
GI good with Sig is very reliable & worth the risk, because GI hurts Soul Gauge, + to that poking with 6B, B4, agA, 6B+K'A+B etc throughout the match = breaking your rival's SG faster.

Once you get the hang of countering, don't hesitate to apply them, specially with B+K's GI, the risk is worth.
 
Jink said:
Go to training & using record mode with the characters you want to defend against, figure & rehearse GIs, crouches, jumps, side steps, & back dashes in-between rivals strings. All of those works best at tip range, specially for 4B+K's back step & counter game.
Sig's moves that are -advantage are good to GI. Example: if you whiff punish your rival with b6 at tip range follow with 2A, after hit or counter Sig is at -adv, so Guard. Watch your rival's reactions to 2A, if they do moves like BB, 3B etc, then time your GI to sustain momentum between pokes exchange. If they do slower moves to punish if you GI, then do 6K, 6A to counter their mixup. Same goes for after 1K.
The -adv kinda makes it easier to GI (& even JI) the rival's retaliation, at least to me.
GI good with Sig is very reliable & worth the risk, because GI hurts Soul Gauge, + to that poking with 6B, B4, agA, 6B+K'A+B etc throughout the match = breaking your rival's SG faster.

Once you get the hang of countering, don't hesitate to apply them, specially with B+K's GI, the risk is worth.
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thanks, man!
 
About B6 & verticals overall: They work best to counter rival's forward dash/run etc. Sig's risk is subjective to necessity, if you have more hp than your rival even by one 1hp, no more reason for unnecessary risk. Backpedal & counter mix your rival's retaliation. Remember & never forget, Sig has a FUCKING 6 FEET LONG ZWEIHANDER!! You'll always have the zoning advantage if you can keep your rival at tip range for either countering with enough range to react or to keep backing out with enough range to react. Also, range helps to lure or even mandate your rival to do what you want then counter easily!

Backpedaling forces rivals into narrow movement, & forward rush-down on rivals can make it easier for them to dodge you, no good. When characters side step/run, they are actually orbiting around. The closer character are, the longer steps will be. The farther character are, the shorter steps will be. But keep in mind that character have different stepping lengths, specially Ivy for example.

The reason Sig has slow backpedal & looong forward step, is to be able to stay at tip range while punishing rivals away with pokes & to snap-zone-in from tip range for grabbing not from "touch-range" but from grab's extend range (which is about 1K's range if you wander).

Another thing is, than since SC2 up to SC4, character's collision body box get bigger towards each other while backpedaling, example: If a NM or Kilik are backpedal Sig can hit the "air" in front of their hands while it would whiff if NM or Kilik were neutral0-still (Namco's flawed design again, but it works for something at least).

This is just a few among the things that Sig can break odds with, frames etc.

Range play > solid data in Sc4. Just like irrational love can > logic sometimes, if that makes any sense.
 
Thanks for all the advice, guys! I feel the scrub escaping me yet!

So, I was playing a Taki online last night just for the hell of it (apparently, he's a member here)
The guy would do the thing where Taki basically gets in your face and strings till the cows come home. I figured because Taki is in movement, and because there was little else to do because of the fact i'm at serious - and I can't do what would do normally offline, I could stop her forward advancement with 2K. and try to set him up for 6B or 3B because that shit would hit him offline as well. (at least i'm under the impression it would) That, and when he got in close I would mix up throws, push him back with 6K and keep him at bay with B6 and B4. I'd also set him up with the stances. I find myself using (A)~ SSH and following up with SSH A if he doesnt have the brain to block. All that sudden this dude starts lagging on me. Then HE picks Seig and starts lagging on me with Seig. I'm thinking, sure I can see how one would think If i were spamming 2+K, or 2A+B, or SBH A+B that he should start 2 A+B and SCH K spamming me nonfreaking stop and overkilling me as if I had given him a reason to. (can anyone say GI?) this dude flew off the frickin handle and i'm not sure if he was respecting the match up.
Did I go wrong here? It's getting a little old. Everything with Seigfried can be lag tactic if the other guy whines loud enough. Especially when you beat the other guy. I've been training offline as well. This stuff seems to check out as well offline. But then again, i'm scrub here and you guys know Seig more than I do. Would the tactics i named off work offline?
 
lespaulphoenix said:
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Everything that we've written here works offline, so unless it's something that's supremely lag boosted to "unblockable" territory, they really don't have much reason to complain. Really, it's online - everyone knows (or should know) what's different when you go online as opposed to offline - if they're still complaining, just ignore them. It's no one else's place to force rules of play on someone else, especially online, and if they persist in calling "cheap", they're probably not worth your time in the first place.
 
lespaulphoenix said:
Thanks for all the advice, guys! I feel the scrub escaping me yet!

So, I was playing a Taki online last night just for the hell of it (apparently, he's a member here)
The guy would do the thing where Taki basically gets in your face and strings till the cows come home. I figured because Taki is in movement, and because there was little else to do because of the fact i'm at serious - and I can't do what would do normally offline, I could stop her forward advancement with 2K. and try to set him up for 6B or 3B because that shit would hit him offline as well. (at least i'm under the impression it would) That, and when he got in close I would mix up throws, push him back with 6K and keep him at bay with B6 and B4. I'd also set him up with the stances. I find myself using (A)~ SSH and following up with SSH A if he doesnt have the brain to block. All that sudden this dude starts lagging on me. Then HE picks Seig and starts lagging on me with Seig. I'm thinking, sure I can see how one would think If i were spamming 2+K, WR AA, or 2A+B, or SBH A+B that he should start WR AA and SCH K spamming me nonfreaking stop and overkilling me as if I had given him a reason to. (can anyone say GI?) this dude flew off the frickin handle and i'm not sure if he was respecting the match up.
Did I go wrong here? It's getting a little old. Everything with Seigfried can be lag tactic if the other guy whines loud enough. Especially when you beat the other guy. I've been training offline as well. This stuff seems to check out as well offline. But then again, i'm scrub here and you guys know Seig more than I do. Would the tactics i named off work offline?
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spamming lag tactics is one thing, but if someone can't successfully defend and counter legit setups and moves, then that's on them and not you.
 
lespaulphoenix said:
So, I was playing a Taki online last night just for the hell of it (apparently, he's a member here)
The guy would do the thing where Taki basically gets in your face and strings till the cows come home.
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Thankfully, most Taki's will overuse the AB string, so if you really aren't sure what to do, just mash out 3B till she gets launched - works like a charm online. The only string you really need to worry about with Taki is 1BA, which is +3 on block, but the second hit is a high, ducking it online I'd imagine is a bitch, but try at least. BA string's 3rd hit options are all beaten by low guard, A6 means WR followup - 3B immediately. POS K is a shakeable stun, both it and POS A can be ducked, so only POS B or POS sidestep make you not want to 3B their ass. If I'm in range of a LEV mixup and they try it, what I do is run at them - if its LEV and they attack, they will whiff and its a position change, if its Silent Mist, I'll not be able to run through, meaning its 3B time! =)
That's some generic anti Taki, its pretty basic, but of course that's enough to beat 95% of online Taki's ^_~.

Sieg 6B can be a gray area, 70% of the time I use it at range it wil be GI'd. Not stepped though =/.

Ignore the hater man, this is pretty much why online is shit, though I must ask - iWS AA, when did this become a lag move? Its one of his best moves...
 
meh WR AA isnt anymore laggy than anything else online. its a little easier to kill step with, but that goes for everything online. and its so blatantly punishable idk how you could miss a punish off it blocked, unless the connection was pretty much unplayable anyways. WR AA2 is a little boosted online, but nothing that can't be compensated for, and well WR [A] isn't even that bad, its just tougher to reverse mixup the stance options on block online.

remember what i told you in pm's LPP? everything's effected with online lol. if somebody's complaining to you, and you're not blatantly lagging them, either they got a real short fuse, they take the online code as an unflexible law, or they just have never played offline.

lil tip for online players is the word "low" doesnt exist to them, so they're pretty free if you don't mind winning most of your matches with stuff like 2A, 1K, SSH A, SRSH K, and stuff like that. funny thing is they don't really step or grapple break either, so feel free to throw out lots of grabs, b4's and 1B's XD

point is, don't worry about it. online's just a learning tool. the game doesnt work the same in any aspect there. offline, well there's not even a reason to complain there anyways unless you're getting bubble infinited by algol, DC'd by hilde, or like me, you hate sophitia's TAS B bs with a passion.

so just keep doin what you're doin, and if people wanna whine and complain, they're not likely worth your time anyways. however if they do actually take the time out of their day to point out to you some mistakes you may be making, as well as how to fix them, thats when you should at least take them into consideration IMO.

and if you dont wanna read all that, its basically a recap of the other 3posts above in my own fasion.
 
to also comment on the taki issue, what exactly was he/she doing to you cuz after playing DK for so long I`ve found alot of ways around her
 
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