There were no "Good old days". SC Changes (often and drastically)

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SuckingMaw said:
People are trying to find a grey area where there isn't one. I never said he was wrong. I said he (and others like him) have opinions which come from misinformation and bias. I am claiming his positions are ignorant. Not that he is "wrong".

People like to hide behind "my opinion can't be wrong." This is crybaby arguing 101. It's worse when that isn't even what's up for discussion.

Also, reality check: opinions aren't equal. They have varying forms of informativeness, background information, and other aspects which make them what they are. If I question the basis for your opinions, you can no longer hide behind them.

So what is happening here is simple. A guy is conflating me attacking his reasoning as attacking him, and is "right to his opinion."
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thats not it. you and some others constantly say that negative opinions about SC5 dont belong here. you and some others dont like reading them, right? that has nothing to do with how well informed an opinion is, you just dont like my opinion. in the defecting i said i quit cause i didnt like the game. its that simple. you then said, that peole who quit are people who dont "understand" all the "positive" changes, dont understand the game mechanics, and they suck at playing, and are vultures, and if their ideas got into a game, it would be "shit covered in cream". was all that garbage aimed at me or not? cause thats what you claim as your "informed opinion".
 
It's okay to cry...right?

:) The only forums I've been a part of are linux geek forums and the AMA forum. People who are wrong in those forums get corrected. Not degraded. Yes, if someone writes a bash code or edits "grub" in a bad way, the linux geeks jump in. But not with hostility. More of a "holy crap - you're going to hurt yourself" type of concern. Here...there's a level of redundancy that could be attributed to a less than amiable approach. I keep hearing how a certain approach works, but unless my eyes are deceiving me, it doesn't. Using the same approach and expecting different results, then getting flustered that the same approach has once again gotten the same results. For those knowledgeable people it probably does suck to have to dispel the same misconceptions time and time again. You do deserve appreciation for what you do. But, if people don't express a falsehood, then no one will know to correct it. Either, you want to help and educate people, or you want them to just shut up and remain "ignorant". Personally, I'm just trying to look at the big picture. Specifically, what role, if any, does this culture play in retaining players? Does this place help keep people turned on to the game, turn them away, or is it a wash?
 
JDub said:
It's okay to cry...right?

:) The only forums I've been a part of are linux geek forums and the AMA forum. People who are wrong in those forums get corrected. Not degraded. Yes, if someone writes a bash code or edits "grub" in a bad way, the linux geeks jump in. But not with hostility. More of a "holy crap - you're going to hurt yourself" type of concern. Here...there's a level of redundancy that could be attributed to a less than amiable approach. I keep hearing how a certain approach works, but unless my eyes are deceiving me, it doesn't. Using the same approach and expecting different results, then getting flustered that the same approach has once again gotten the same results. For those knowledgeable people it probably does suck to have to dispel the same misconceptions time and time again. You do deserve appreciation for what you do. But, if people don't express a falsehood, then no one will know to correct it. Either, you want to help and educate people, or you want them to just shut up and remain "ignorant". Personally, I'm just trying to look at the big picture. Specifically, what role, if any, does this culture play in retaining players? Does this place help keep people turned on to the game, turn them away, or is it a wash?
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People are more inclined to help those who ask than those who demand.

People are also more inclined to help people who don't act like they already know, and get victim complexes right out of the gate.

I mean, look, its a simple equation. Right now the equation is "garbage in, garbage out." That's where we are at.
 
There's an error in your text (I'm probably not the only one to notice). "Weapon stripping" as you call it was only present in SE, not SC1. Good post though, this section of the forums needs more stuff like this.
 
God I soooo want to go on a rant here. But really it won't help anything. We've been infested. I swear to god if they gave me the say so these people who have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for this community besides whine and spout off their little opinions would be banned for at least a month. If they don't come back, all well they never did anything besides cause problems, if they do maybe they'll learn being a non-contributing idiot won't be tolerated. Unfortunately being a non-contributing idiot is more than tolerated now and it just keeps inviting more of them to keep coming.
 
Adding on to my previous post.

ShenYu said:
I can't tell you how many good players have stopped posting on forums because there's no point anymore.
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Which incidently, helps no one in the end. Shoutouts to Drake and Sp1d3r and whoever else is trying to still post good info out there though. You guys give me hope for the future.

DrakeAldan said:
Is this what it is?

Is it a lack of appreciation? Is it noise and clutter from the ignorant?
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It's really just signal to noise. On most fighting game forums these days it's possible to trawl tens of pages and only come across a handle of useful posts. So what do most good players do? They go to IRC or IMs and directly ask people they know are good what they think. That's not available to most people. So in the end no one gets helped. Good players have a harder time finding relevant info. And new players don't have access to that info.
 
greatone1939 said:
Unfortunately being a non-contributing idiot is more than tolerated now and it just keeps inviting more of them to keep coming.
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I say you are exactly correct with this statement right here. and what do we do. Do we point fingers at the people running this place? do we come up with a solution? or do we just accept this as an "8wr" thing and just let it be?

lack of moderation is a huge problem around here. But heaven forbid you speak ill of the mods. So I guess I ll just shut up cause I dont wanna get banned for speaking my mind.
 
There's enough discontent to be noticeable. I'm sure no one's intent is to sabotage this place. Kids giving bad ideas and adults attacking them is shameful to me though. Somebody has to be the adult in a conversation so why not the actual adult? I really like the "Reputation Based System" implemented here:
http://askubuntu.com/privileges

PS...I'm probably one of those non-contributing idiots.:) Unless you like ayus!
 
With the kind of trolling that goes on around here, that would make things worse as people have this fun tendency of doing things counterintuitively for the sake of trolling.

BTW, ur dumb.
 
ShenYu said:
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Thank you for putting things into perspective for me.



I may not be right, but I believe that a focus on educating new players in basics and fundamentals is key in any community. New players represent community growth; they represent more turnout, more money. If they are strengthened and educated, they will become more productive instead of... well.

I recall when SFIV started blowing up, I tried to learn the game, but I couldn't. Everyone would talk about basics, but no one would talk about basics.

There was nothing stickied up on the boards, no front-page "learn here". No resources.

I remember watching a tutorial by a player who wasn't qualified to make it, who was quite wordy and had a bad accent.

I have to assume that Capcom had the success it did because of marketing and a nostalgia of the arcade days in the 90s.


The articles I'm writing, I can't recall seeing an equivalent back in SCIV. I would ask questions, and people would explain. And I am grateful for that. (I am reading through a few PMs where I am talking to LAU and he is explaining things like whiff punishment to me back in 2009, that took me 3 years to finally understand...)

But... Things were pretty bare. You couldn't find much. There weren't resources out to specifically educate others, just... forum posts, as you've said.

Hell, I was the one to make the aGI and punishment lists for Amy back then. I didn't even know what I was doing, why was I the first one to go there when there were surely more qualified individuals than me?

Nobody seemed to be actively sharing their information. And I mean- all of it. For whatever reason, I don't know, I couldn't say.

But it seemed detrimental. Without putting this stuff into the public eye, it only serves to decay the community, as new players never reach the skill level necessary to become a productive member, and leave for something else. The veterans only get older.


It seems to me that a community needs "keepers"- people who take the knowledge from the great, and distribute them among the common man. And, that this is the only way a community will grow both in size and in strength.

Of course, it is a responsibility that not everyone can do or should do, but someone must do it. Otherwise, the "barrier to entry" is too high, and new players cannot come in; ultimately resulting in a net loss of players and a stagnant community, with the same people playing the game amongst themselves.

tl;dr - Not sharing is suicide.



I cannot say for sure if my hypothesis is correct, or even accurate. It may not be, but it is what I believe.
 
ShenYu said:
To me the "good old days" were when we were all assholes to people who posted trash. Back then forums were actually useful for discussion. I can't tell you how many good players have stopped posting on forums because there's no point anymore.
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If the "good old days" of being ass holes to over zealous kids who bite off more than they can chew was so good...what happened? Plus, you may be accurate when speaking for pros, but I'd like to hear it from them too.

greatone1939 said:
God I soooo want to go on a rant here. But really it won't help anything. We've been infested. I swear to god if they gave me the say so these people who have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for this community besides whine and spout off their little opinions would be banned for at least a month. If they don't come back, all well they never did anything besides cause problems, if they do maybe they'll learn being a non-contributing idiot won't be tolerated. Unfortunately being a non-contributing idiot is more than tolerated now and it just keeps inviting more of them to keep coming.
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Bummer that new people get into this game and join this forum. I held out as long as I could. Then, I got curious. I'm sure I could pull examples up of me doing exactly what you seem to consider a cardinal sin. There is such a thing as a learning curve. My concern is that attitudes like yours don't respect such a fact. More so, that it drives people away before they even get to understand how and why they're wrong about things. Instead of helping others who are encouraged to help others, you're diminishing the numbers of those who could be helpful one day, because you don't have the patience to be helpful today.
 
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