Things you DON'T wanna see in SC6

The unblockable follow up is pretty much gambling, since the opponent can choose to lay down instead of recovering
just to let the attack move over their head.
Unless the opponent got occupied by the CE and is only thinking of quickly recovering, in this case it would work.

A decent 22B 3B + CE by Leixia, would have the 22B as a check prior to executing the launcher.
If the 22B failed to "bite" then its on to other moves to entertain the opponent until another opportunity arises.
Since 22B 3B 1B is practically a string, executing a CE during a string that is confirmed would be quite safe.

Sometime just gets too lazy and casual, tries the launcher alone and get punished instead.

Though the risk taken for a working launcher + damage dealt by CE
usually justifies taking the risk.
 
1.22B ~ 3B ~ CE is definitely not a combo, nor is 22B ~ 3B ~ 1B.

2. That post CE setup isn't real. The opponent has time to wakeup and step the unblockable.

3. After having your 22B blocked, you are on the defensive. The move is either getting punished (albeit lightly and only by some characters), or you are -13 and are bound to get counterhit doing anything but OS JG, GI, or just blocking. Thus, you really won't be able to go on to other moves after it.
 
linkorz said:
1.22B ~ 3B ~ CE is definitely not a combo, nor is 22B ~ 3B ~ 1B.

2. That post CE setup isn't real. The opponent has time to wakeup and step the unblockable.

3. After having your 22B blocked, you are on the defensive. The move is either getting punished (albeit lightly and only by some characters), or you are -13 and are bound to get counterhit doing anything but OS JG, GI, or just blocking. Thus, you really won't be able to go on to other moves after it.
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1) What I mentioned is a string, it is not a combo which usually is prescribed in the move list.
and has some fancy name for it other than the input.

Though anyone please verify if it is possible to escape the 3B while the 22B already struck you.

2) Or basically what you mentioned, its not guaranteed safe but sometime people fall for it.
JayChang said:
The unblockable follow up is pretty much gambling, since the opponent can
- choose to lay down instead of recovering just to let the attack move over their head.
Click to expand...

3) The risk you are exposed to for having a 22B blocked would be less than a launcher
since it is active B move that hit multiple times, the opponent will be forced on a longer guard
than stopping a straight forward 3B with a short guard, which a counterhit is much easier to be done.

-13 is basically 0.217 seconds, average human reaction speed is 0.25 for visual cue.
Unless it is veteran players who have spent hours conditioning the inputs and follow ups
that they are processing the game at a mental level, and fingers have muscle memory to act in advance.
It is kind of hard for average players to keep up.

that would be similar to try to perform a counter guard impact with your eyes closed
which is how I used to train counter GI in SC2 and SC3.
Since audio reaction time is 0.17 second and can be used to assist a player in "hearing the attack"
that allows player to respond to anything before the visual reaction kick in.

Though I guess this is straying from the main illustration of CE's use.
part of the training in hearing attacks might be disrupted by CE's time warp and audio effects.
Which is why cutscenes and special effects might be hated by players.
 
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JayChang said:
-13 is basically 0.217 seconds, average human reaction speed is 0.25 for visual cue.
Unless it is veteran players who have spent hours conditioning the inputs and follow ups
that they are processing the game at a mental level, and fingers have muscle memory to act in advance.
It is kind of hard for average players to keep up.
Click to expand...
Except you and the entire attack animation and the resulting guard stun to plan a response. If Leixia loves doing stuff at -13, all the other player has to do is hit any attack button and she's wrecked.
 
linkorz said:
Oh god, are you really trying to tell me you need exceptional reactions to block punish?
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Marginal said:
Except you and the entire attack animation and the resulting guard stun to plan a response. If Leixia loves doing stuff at -13, all the other player has to do is hit any attack button and she's wrecked.
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The guard stun duration is less than average human reaction time.
Even unguarded it might be possible that some players might not attack you entirely.
Or attacked too slowly that your guard come into effect in time.

This summaries the risk taken for using a 22B to check the opponent.

Unless it is being repeatedly used, which increases risk of getting punished
since it turned predictable.
 
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JayChang said:
The guard stun duration is less than average human reaction time.
Even unguarded it might be possible that some players might not attack you entirely.
Or attacked too slowly that your guard come into effect in time.

This summaries the risk taken for using a 22B to check the opponent.

Unless it is being repeatedly used, which increases risk of getting punished
since it turned predictable.
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Even as someone who's rather famous for no punishment... This is stuff I've been doing for years. Watching Leixia sidestep and spin her thing is certainly possible to block and react. (Most times I'll just 6A+B in response which gets me nothing super useful since they're guarding after that.) At -13 on block, that makes even an AA followup from her effectively i24.

If she does it and attempts to block, Maxi can't do much to punish her. (This is why pro Leixia's block afterwards if they are blocked.) If she attempts to do anything afterwards however, I can do almost all of Maxi's slower high damage stuff to interrupt.

I am curious how you think Street Fighters players get by when they have 3-8 frame punish windows.
 
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JayChang said:
1) What I mentioned is a string, it is not a combo which usually is prescribed in the move list.
and has some fancy name for it other than the input.

Though anyone please verify if it is possible to escape the 3B while the 22B already struck you.

2) Or basically what you mentioned, its not guaranteed safe but sometime people fall for it.


3) The risk you are exposed to for having a 22B blocked would be less than a launcher
since it is active B move that hit multiple times, the opponent will be forced on a longer guard
than stopping a straight forward 3B with a short guard, which a counterhit is much easier to be done.

-13 is basically 0.217 seconds, average human reaction speed is 0.25 for visual cue.
Unless it is veteran players who have spent hours conditioning the inputs and follow ups
that they are processing the game at a mental level, and fingers have muscle memory to act in advance.
It is kind of hard for average players to keep up.

that would be similar to try to perform a counter guard impact with your eyes closed
which is how I used to train counter GI in SC2 and SC3.
Since audio reaction time is 0.17 second and can be used to assist a player in "hearing the attack"
that allows player to respond to anything before the visual reaction kick in.

Though I guess this is straying from the main illustration of CE's use.
part of the training in hearing attacks might be disrupted by CE's time warp and audio effects.
Which is why cutscenes and special effects might be hated by players.
Click to expand...

I think you're referring to block pressure or a gimmick...and even then once you do 22B, any move your opponent does is going to beat your 3B.
If people have fallen for it before then trust them to eventually see how terrible a tactic that is.

forget about how fast or how reactive -13 is and understand...almost everyone on this site knows how to punish -13 moves.
understand that just about everyone here has played this game and previous titles for years...so talk of veteran or whatever is gonna work or won't doesn't sell well here.
 
Oh_my_foot said:
100% agree with zer0 on that one tbh. And I can´t really understand the hype about sc2 being the best either. I´ve played it back then and sc2Hd now and fck that shit is meh Kappa. ScV all the way
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Well, Sc2 for PS2 has more sales than the combined sales number of SCV for both PS3 & Xbox360, even the original Soulcalibur for Dreamcast has sales on par with SCV, millions of players voted with their wallets as to which game is weak.

Soulcalibur I, II, & III are superior to SCV in most aspects, the latest installment clearly does better in graphics,
and that's the result of it being on a newer console generation.

Things you DON'T wanna see in SC VI
- Dismal sales (we don't want our beloved franchise to die)
- Mandatory 3 round fights is boring, the previous games allow the user to setup the desired number of rounds.
- Most of Daishi Odashima's design changes & ideas deviating from the true essence of Soulcalibur.

At least there's hope that things will improve significantly, given the fact Odashima quit his job at Namco due the state of despair in which he left the Soulcalibur Franchise & declining sales.
 
exactly back then people didnt have the same expectations thats why sc2 was that successful which doesnt mean it is superior to newer versions. Nowadays people just want more and more and get upset even if games are great. Thats simply nostalgia speaking here nothing else. Also fighting games were way more popular back then which is another reason.
 
Oh_my_foot said:
exactly back then people didnt have the same expectations thats why sc2 was that successful which doesnt mean it is superior to newer versions. Nowadays people just want more and more and get upset even if games are great. Thats simply nostalgia speaking here nothing else. Also fighting games were way more popular back then which is another reason.
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People had expectations from a Soulcalibur game that still is one of the few to score a perfect 40/40 by Famitsu,
no other Soulcalibur game in the series has scored equally, and that certainly created big expectations for Soulcalibur II,
which also turned out to be a great game, the actual sales numbers reflect the above, whereas the same cannot be said
about the latest effort in the franchise.

The latest installments in the series somehow end up with less & less content,
and somewhat "capcomized", resulting in dismal sales, which we should be worried
about if we want our beloved franchise to live on.
 
of course no other game scored equaly because the other arent soul calibur 2 and got released at a different time. But anyway whatever you obviously dont like anythign aside from your one game so talking about scV is pointless here.
 
It's actually great to have this discussion, to have a new Soulcalibur game is certainly something we want, and can agree.

Dialogue and opinions will only help Namco to further consider development direction if they actually decide to go forward with a new installment, and I really hope they do.
 
If sc6 looks exactly like 5 with new characters/gameplay mechanics and the same amount of offline content i´m fine with that. Minimalizing a game isnt bad if what you get is amazing.
 
Oh_my_foot said:
If sc6 looks exactly like 5 with new characters/gameplay mechanics and the same amount of offline content i´m fine with that. Minimalizing a game isnt bad if what you get is amazing.
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SCV is not better than SCIV, which isnt great either.

I certainly expect something much better than that.

Great suggestions on how to make lots of improvements are within this thread.
 
I do wanna see: Zasalamel coming back, Inferno playable, Night Terror gangsta.

I DON'T wanna see: Patrokolos, Pyrra, Zasalamel NOT coming back, Setsuka, NON OF ThE NEW CHARACTERS!

Except for Algol and Leixia and Xiba, They are good.
 
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