Throws and the art of breaking them

Binarical

Binarical

[08] Mercenary
Hi, I'm new to 8wr, and I'm relatively new to the scene of serious SCIV (Is there a technical term for non-casual play other than professional?)

Anyways, I've been wondering...is there a thread about throw breaking? Either I'm searching in the wrong places or I'm just blind. xD

If there isn't a thread about throw breaking (which I doubt) what's the general advice on getting better at it?
 
Make a conscious effort to do it and eventually it'll become second nature.

Another way is to mash a throw break while guarding if you expect a throw coming. This also often has the added benefit of giving you an early break and thus, frame advantage.
 
hmm, i remember some stuff about throws off the top of my head. anyone feel free to add-on or correct me if i'm wrong.


- normal throws are either A+G/B+G, with A and B breaks respectively. there's three types of breaking to these throws.
  • Early Throw Break - where the player breaking the throw advances towards the opponent w/ GI animation. The player breaking the throw also gets a small frame advantage, around +2/+3.
  • Normal Throw Break - where the player breaking the throw bounces off the thrower, with both characters' hands raise up. Both players end up at neutral frames.
  • Late Throw Break - where the player breaking the throw falls to the ground, while the thrower goes into a normal break animation. idk if the player breaking the throw ends up at disadvantage, cause it seems like it ends up at neutral.

(i usually go for a late break to create space, but hey, who says no to free frame advantage?)


- there's also side and back throws, which can be broken w/ A or B, depending on the throw attempted. they have a really small throw break window, so you will rarely have these broken. these throws also usually do more damage than normal throws.


- some characters have 'command throws'. command throws are special throws that do more damage than regular throws. they are character specific on breaks, please refer to movelists for specific command throw breaks. they also have a smaller break window than normal throws, but i'm not sure on the exact window in terms of frames.
  • Astaroth's 63214A_B+G - A or B break. Note: There's also a JF version that shrinks the break window even further.
  • Rock's 63214B+G - B Break. Note: You can hold B down until the opponent hits the ground for a JF version that stuns temporarily.

- some characters can also perform a crouch throw. this is a throw that targets crouching opponents, and is faster than normal throws. like command throws, they also have a short break window, and usually do more damage than normal throws.
  • Cassandra's 2B+G - B break.
  • Xianghua's 2B+G - B break. Note: The moment X's feet touch the ground, you can attempt a B+K for a guaranteed followup, for more guaranteed followups.

- also, tips on throw breaking:
  • PRACTICE! Go into training mode and set the CPU to throw. You'll get used to breaking throws if you are ready to break them on reaction, just in case.
  • I started to break throws by getting used to paying attention to other character's throw animation. So get used to guessing A or B when you see the opposing character's hand stretch out!
  • Like what Yu stated, while guarding, mash A or B (or both at the same time) so you can defend against a throw while being under attack.
 
Yeah, a good thing to practice is to hold Guard while mashing A or B.

Part of the mind game is that a character's two throws have different uses for certain situations. For example, Nightmare's A grab does slightly more damage and leaves him in good positioning for wakeup...while his B grab ROs behind him but does slightly less damage and leaves the opponent far away if it doesn't RO. So next time you back up Nightmare to the ring's edge, hold guard and mash B if you think your opponent is going for the RO.

Off the top of my head, Nightmare, Yun Seong, Apprentice, Zasalamel have B throws that RO behind them, while Ivy and Vader have A throws that RO behind them. Also Astaroth and Raphael have B throws that RO forward while Mitsurugi's A throw ROs forward. This is definitely not a complete list, and some of them might be wrong, but this is where you start.

One last thing to keep in mind is to anticipate a throw. Some people like to go for a side throw after stepping around a vertical attack so you can reasonable expect a throw in that situation. Some people are also blatantly obvious when they're going for a throw when they dash in and get really close. One last example is when an opponent ducks your throw attempt, some people like to pop up from their crouch and attempt to throw you in return. It's not always 100% that they'll go for a throw in these examples, but these are the situations you look at when anticipating a throw.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I generally suck at breaking throws, but, I have noticed the following:

-Mashing A or B while guarding against a throw happy opponent basically lets you get a free throw break 50% of the time if they are throwing randomly. The majority of online players only ever seem to use the B+G throws, so, mash B while guarding against them. Occassionally, you'll find someone who thinks they are being tricky and does only A+G throws (or are used to say SC2's default layout, where there was no B+G throw button and A+G was so much easier on the thumb to do). I find mashing both A and B alternatingly doesn't work very well, though, that could just be me.

-If you use button binding, then any button bind with an A in it will only break A+G type throws. Any button bind with a B in it will break B+G type throws (if there's no A in the button bind as well). So, A+B is the same as A for the purposes of throw breaking. The Apprentice is the exception to this, who's A+B can break any throw, including low throws. Button binding does make it easier to mash a throw break with those shoulder buttons and not have to use up your thumb holding block.

-Pay attention to ring out throw potential. The Apprentice/Nightmare/Yun-Sueng are almost certainly going to go for a B+G throw to ring you out if their back is to the edge. Raphael is probably going to do a B+G if your back is to the edge. Course, this is a good opportunity to try to trick your opponent and use the other throw, hoping they are trying to break the ring out throw.

-Command throws can be just blocked as normal (I think this is always true). So, don't try to break say Nightmare and Siegfried's low command throws, you can just block low and not have to guess.

-The actual throw break is supposed to happen when that blue circle thing appears (at least, that's what it seems like) and there's a little sound that happens. Though, I can almost never break a throw on reaction to seeing that in a real much (sometimes though, I'm still working on it).

-Some characters have a throw that is vastly superior to their other throw. For example, with Cassandra, I tend to use her B+G throw more, since it leaves my opponent on the ground, very, very vulnerable to whatever mixup I use next on them, while A+G does less damage and has no follow-up potential (though it can ring out, and creating space isn't always a bad thing). But, if I notice you breaking my B+G throws consistently, I'll start trying to 50-50 it up.

-The 2nd half of throws like Sophitia's B+G can be broken. So, if you get hit by the first half, you can still try to break the second half of it via mashing the break.

-I believe setting the training mode dummy to throw, will alternate between A+G and B+G throws. You may find it easier when initially learning, to set up a recorded command of you repeatedly doing one type of throw, so you don't have to guess what's incoming and can get the actual procedure/timing of a throw break down.
 
Just be thankful this isn't Tekken, with THREE different throw breaks, or some other game I'm too tired to remember the name of (which I only played once for five minutes, but which I should still remember because I know it's supposed to be a top-tier game) where you can buffer all kinds of weird-ass throws and throw breaks.

So yeah. It can always be worse. Hell, occasionally I'll play Tekken to speed my reactions up for SC.
 
Archangel said:
Just be thankful this isn't Tekken, with THREE different throw breaks, or some other game I'm too tired to remember the name of (which I only played once for five minutes, but which I should still remember because I know it's supposed to be a top-tier game) where you can buffer all kinds of weird-ass throws and throw breaks.

So yeah. It can always be worse. Hell, occasionally I'll play Tekken to speed my reactions up for SC.
Click to expand...
That would be VF.

Which is awesome. The mind game is great but the inputs are hell.
 
A lot of what the others have mentioned is excellent advice. The only thing I can add if you go from semi-casual play to competitive play (I don't think many people actually use the word "professional") is to learn your opponent's habits. One somewhat advanced technique tricky players will do is guard cancel an A or B attack into a throw (run up to someone press A and then quickly guard, then throw). If you see that coming you may freeze at first but you should train yourself to be ready to throw break.

"-Command throws can be just blocked as normal (I think this is always true). So, don't try to break say Nightmare and Siegfried's low command throws, you can just block low and not have to guess." No, this isn't true. Cassy's 66B+G, Sophy's 66A+B, Taki's 66B+G can't be blocked...I'm sure theres more. Attack throws like Cervantes' 66B and Sieg's 1B can be blocked but not escaped. I think Sieg and Night's low command throw are unique; they're classified as attack throws but can be escaped (btw I think Seung Mina's low attack throws can be escaped iirc).

One last thing, I know this thread was made with the technique of throw breaking in mind, but in general sometimes simply ducking a throw might be more beneficial. Eg. ducking a throw allows you to utilize your wile rising game if your character has got a good one. Once again, this all depends on how well you can read your opponent and how well you know their habits.
 
Archangel said:
Just be thankful this isn't Tekken, with THREE different throw breaks, or some other game I'm too tired to remember the name of (which I only played once for five minutes, but which I should still remember because I know it's supposed to be a top-tier game) where you can buffer all kinds of weird-ass throws and throw breaks.
Click to expand...
In a way, VF is far friendlier when it comes to throw breaks. Letting you buffer in three options only increases the odds of a successful throw break. Not to mention that it's pretty apparent when you need to be buffering them in. (When you're at disadvantage.)

SC, I usually just hit whatever button the other player was using last.
 
pretty nice advice down here.

Yeah but like what chairwolf said, if you can duck a throw, duck it, don't break it. Think of throws as breakable lows. the reason being throws are not breakable 100%; its a 50/50. I like to see throw breaking as a safety net, especially when you make a wrong guess that a mid is coming, but a throw comes. A lot of bad players think that standing guard and breaking throws is a formidable defense... and throws aint worth ducking. at a higher level of understanding, it is still a formidable strategy, but not a panacea for throw/mid games.
 
Even if you miss a throw break, you should at least press something. A late reaction is better than no reaction when you are training.
 
Yeah, the flapjack throws aren't typically classified as command throws, they're more like low attack throws that can be broken. Command throws are like Ivy's CS/SS and Astaroth's throws where there's an additional input and there's usually a smaller break window.

Ducking throws are good 'cause throws are really punishable once they whiff and some characters can make you pay at least 50+ health for it, and it you don't have to hope you guessed A or B right. In some cases, it's better to block and buffer a throw break. Say Vader has his back to the edge: he can go for the reverse RO with either his A grab or 3B into a his force throw when your grounded. Rather than risk ducking in anticipation of the throw and eating the mid in the face, you can guard and mash A to essentially eliminate both of his reverse RO options. Depends on the situation.
 
The only advice I can give (keep in mind this is coming from someone who is terrible at throw breaks) is to watch peoples habits. If there back is toward the edge keep in mind what character they have because it may tell you what throw they'll try. i.e. Nightmares :B: + :G: throw will ring out so it would be a safe bet to have :B: ready in the event a throw is initiated.

look through the various command lists and find out which throws may present such hazards and prepare accordingly.
 
Here is a question, can't you input the aB or bA slide command and always break the throw? I do the bA slide input as often as possible and it has broken many A+G and B+G throws. I still get thrown often because I get the deer in the headlights syndrome a lot when someone interrupts me with a grab, but when I can do the input it rarely fails.

Can someone confirm this?
 
Wiley.. if you slide from aB, you will break A throws, if you slide bA you will break B throws.

But, if you start the slide really early, before the throw connects, you might get your last input in during the throw attempt..

Regardless, there's only 1 character who can break both A and B throws simultaneously and that's the Apprentice.
 
It would be easy to test.

go into training mode, get the AI to use A throws repeatedly... just stand there and do your little slide thing from bA and see if you can break them. But don't be mistaken when you try to break it before the the throw lands, the A might be registered instead of the B.

know what I mean?
 
would throw breaks work if you set for example the left trigger to A+B would that break throws I havent had a chance to practice this but if it works that'd be nice


NEVERMIND LOL
 
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