Tier Discussion

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Goofy said:
Here's my two cents:

Top Tier: Alpha Patroklos, Natsu
High Tier: Cervantes, Ivy*, Mitsurugi, Omega, Pyrrha
Upper-Mid Tier: Algol*, Astaroth, Lexia, Maxi*, Nightmare, Voldo*, Yoshimitsu*
Mid Tier: Hilde*, Patroklos, Siegfried, Tira, Xiba
Lower-Mid Tier: Aeon, Raphael, Viola
Low Tier: Dampierre, Zwei

* = Not sure

Edit: Gave it some more thought...
Edit 2: More thought after playing PyroZamfir's Siegfried...
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I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why Natsu is considered (by most, it seems) to be a top tier character. The only thing she really has in her favour is her high damage - but it is offset by the fact that most of her POS stuff is unsafe and her big combos require counter-hits (which are pretty prevalent in SC, but still). In my limited experience playing as her, she also seems to struggle a lot against Nightmare (and even Siegfried) players who are particularly meticulous about their spacing, as she doesn't seem to have any way to get in. Against Pyrrha, most of her POS setups into a CH combo seem to end up with Natsu eating a stab to the face.

I don't know, maybe someone can enlighten me about this.
 
Well, for a start, Natsu has an i10 AA - that alone is a big deal. Not only does it mean that she can punish moves that no one else can (yes, I know there's Alpha Patroklos' CE, but that requires meter - AA doesn't), but it also doubles as an awesome interrupter and poke. In fact, if you're god-like, A:6 is i10, does 42 damage and has RO potential. Plus she can punish -8 moves (provided the move has very little block pushback, of course) with 2bA, which again no one else can do (Alpha Patroklos' CE being an exception once again).

So she has super quick pokes and interrupts, and on top of that she has deadly oki as well. Players learn pretty quickly that you should never quick-stand against her (2A+B into air throw is not nice!), so you'll have to either: a) take chip damage from bombs OR b) take a big risk and try to back-roll to avoid them (which, if predicted, leaves you open to all kinds of stuff). I mean, other characters out there have strong oki too, but given that Natsu is more likely to knock you down, it hurts a lot more.

Those are just two of her key strengths. Natsu is not overpowered, but she's definitely in the top 5 at least. The reason she seems overpowered, comparatively, is that her strengths are much easier to take advantage of with her than with, say, Alpha Patroklos.
 
Lol natsu just won soul calibur impact yesterday. By hyrule, who not even mains natsu. He also raped his opponent pretty damn hard (which was playing omega btw).
 
I still don't agree about Natsu being so high up - not that it will matter after the patch, I suspect. Currently, her weaknesses seem to more than balance out her strengths. I've seen stacks of tournament matches so far where Natsu players have just been utterly shut down - particularly by Mitsu/Pyrrha/Nightmare players.

In any case, on another topic, what does everyone think about this iteration of Hilde? I personally have no idea what to think, nor do I have any real reference point since no one seems to play her in tournaments.
 
Well, in any case, Natsu got the nerf. I'm not saying PS knows what their doing 100%, but I believe Natsu got what she deserved, even though her air grabs are still ridiculous.

Siegfried, if anything needed serious buffs, not nerfs. Goodbye Siggy, I played you since sc3, good run, now you're retired for good, old, out-of-shape and useless.

I'm gonna have to read again on Astaroth. I hope they didn't rape him too hard. IMO he was already on the lower end of the food chain as he was.

..... Okay I read it again... 44B took the biggest hit... Generally speaking it looks like they buffed him. Horray for me!
 
damn-I-Suck said:
Well, in any case, Natsu got the nerf. I'm not saying PS knows what their doing 100%, but I believe Natsu got what she deserved, even though her air grabs are still ridiculous.

Siegfried, if anything needed serious buffs, not nerfs. Goodbye Siggy, I played you since sc3, good run, now you're retired for good, old, out-of-shape and useless.

I'm gonna have to read again on Astaroth. I hope they didn't rape him too hard. IMO he was already on the lower end of the food chain as he was.

..... Okay I read it again... 44B took the biggest hit... Generally speaking it looks like they buffed him. Horray for me!
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Imo sieg players can be pretty happy about this patch.

Right now we are seeing lots of players complaining about their mains getting nerfed but they dont see the bigger picture that actually almost everyone got hit by the nerf hammer. The general power level post patch will be lower than before thus making hard nerfs like on natsu, maxi, xiba, tira or leixia less hard and minor nerfs like on sieg almost like a buff.

If anything i can see sieg being better now.
 
So.... I know we have
ChaosK said:
Imo sieg players can be pretty happy about this patch.

Right now we are seeing lots of players complaining about their mains getting nerfed but they dont see the bigger picture that actually almost everyone got hit by the nerf hammer. The general power level post patch will be lower than before thus making hard nerfs like on natsu, maxi, xiba, tira or leixia less hard and minor nerfs like on sieg almost like a buff.

If anything i can see sieg being better now.
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As a Siegfried main, I'm STILL unhappy, they did nothing to address the few glitchy issues he had... like his sword going through people, HOW ABOUT THAT NAMCO!!!
 
Thats right, glitches that cripple a char, that simply have nothing to do with char-balance like his sword going through people, should always be a high priority in a patch. Shame on you namco for not fixing this glitches.
 
My current thoughts:
High: Algol, Viola, aPat
Upper Mid: Ivy, Nightmare, Voldo, Mitsu, Cervantes, Natsu
Mid: Aeon, Yoshi, Pyrrha, Siegfried, Hilde, Pat, Leixia
Lower Mid: Pyrrha Omega, Astaroth, Maxi, Raphael, Tira
Low: ZWEI, Dampierre, Xiba, Ezio

Obviously it's only been a couple of days since the patch, so I'm truly in no place to make these judgements.

Might need to put some more thought as to where Hilde, Maxi and Astaroth belong.

I really believe Xiba is low tier after the last set of nerfs, Hilde does everything he does but better, with the exception of his predictable mix-ups (same reason I don't put Pyrrha in upper-mid tier). Perhaps Omega should be moved up, but the thing is I disagree with people putting both the Pyrrhas in the same tier, they are similar, but still have completely different match-ups against some characters.
 
Mandy said:
My current thoughts:
High: Algol, Viola, aPat
Upper Mid: Ivy, Natsu, Nightmare, Voldo, Mitsu, Cervantes, Leixia
Mid: Aeon, Yoshi, Pyrrha, Siegfried, Hilde, Pat
Lower Mid: Pyrrha Omega, Astaroth, Maxi, Raphael, Tira
Low: ZWEI, Dampierre, Xiba, Ezio

Obviously it's only been a couple of days since the patch, so I'm truly in no place to make these judgements.

Might need to put some more thought as to where Hilde, Maxi and Astaroth belong.
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Why is Natsu that high?
 
Crysack said:
Why is Natsu that high?
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Despite her nerfs, I believe that she's still a very well rounded character. Bombs and the air grab remain largely intact, 1A still has exceptional range, she's still quick; just no longer over the top as she was before. You still have to do a lot of guessing against her, and if you guess wrong you'll still be losing a large chunk of your health.

You may be correct though; perhaps she does belong in mid. Yoshi has a lot of the same qualities.
 
Mandy said:
Despite her nerfs, I believe that she's still a very well rounded character. Bombs and the air grab remain largely intact, 1A still has exceptional range, she's still quick; just no longer over the top as she was before. You still have to do a lot of guessing against her, and if you guess wrong you'll still be losing a large chunk of your health.

You may be correct though; perhaps she does belong in mid. Yoshi has a lot of the same qualities.
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I really don't see bombs landing in competitive matches very often and 1A is so incredibly slow that it can be blocked on reaction and punished heavily. I would place her in low-mid now. She really isn't particularly good at anything post-patch. Her damage is nothing spectacular, she doesn't really have much of a mix-up game due to her weak lows, she has no ground/oki game without FCA+B's stun, she only really has one CH combo starter and her existing combos are really inconsistent depending on which character you are facing. Some people have suggested that she should be played as a punishing character with 66B and what-not, but that just seems counter-intuitive for a character like Natsu - especially when her POS stuff is all unsafe without half a meter to dedicate to the teleport.

She belongs in lower mid in my opinion. She is definitely not as good as any of the characters in upper mid and I don't believe she is as good as characters like Yoshi and Pyrrha post-patch.
 
Natsu is still very good (everyone who says something else is biased) - Upper Mid at least. Lol at Omega and Astaroth being lower mid, they are among the best chars in the game. Xiba is not low tier as well. Thats just a few things.
 
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