Under-used moves

Hold on, are we having step-killing discussion without mentioning 2A!? I mean, I know everybody's got one, and Cervantes doesn't even have a particularly good one, but it leaves him at +8 on hit! At -8 on block it is not unsafe! At i14 it is not slow as balls! And did I mention that it leaves you at +8 on hit? I did? Well it's worth re-mentioning because that pretty much the best frame-advantage Cervantes's offence can possibly give him. The only other moves that give him a +8 are Crouching A, Jumping A, and 6A. Sure, this one leaves you crouching, but get good at that hit-confirm and your 85+ damage pretty-much-safe-on-block WS B combo just went from i20 to an interrupting i12 :-]

Or you could use 3A+B, which is essentially the 4A+B of step-killers (sorry, I had to...)
 
44A+B while it's as obvious as 4A+B I gotta say you need to try it at times due to the insanely damaging output it has. I'm man enough to take my punishment for it but if I catch you off guard or trying to attack me while out of range then I take away minimum a little more than half your life. Without mentioning you need to implement it into your post-GI game for great results.

After a blocked 33B, some people are daring enough to try to attack you. That's where you can land a 44A+B. There are other setups but to give you guys an idea.

Cypher: I agree. 2A is simply excellent. Has great frames, range, speed and damage. It's a must in my game. And can be abused to greater extends. :P

Same for 6A.

And lol @ 4A+B jokes.
 
You know, I was thinking a 44A+B post 33B would catch people off guard, because it's a similar situation to using it after 1AB, while forcing crouch as well. Just haven't remembered to try it out yet so it's good to hear for sure that it can work well. There are a few setups I'd like to try when I next get to play, mostly stuff that leaves you at light disadvantage. It could be a useful part of reverse mixups that makes opponents afraid to attack when at advantage to a degree. I say to a degree, because I've started to eat stuff like Aeon 66A+B for overusing it while trying it out. It isn't something to use all the time.
Also, yeah it's easy to forget 2A. I've been thinking, 2A leaves you at +8 on hit and while it's not especially easy, you can iGDR (i17) while crouching. Risky, but could be one to try out!
 
Heisenberg said:
If we're talking post 1A,B gimmicks, for what you're trying to do, you wanna know what works much better after 1A,B on normal hit?
44A+B... Don't you dare overuse it and get everyone wise to it!
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I kinda wanna slap you. =)

1AB on normal hit is -6. You try ANYTHING and you're likely to get 236B'ed, DNS B'ed, Twister'd, iGDR'ed (well maybe not), etc, etc.

When you fight more players wise to Cervy's frames on that move, you begin to realize that you can't do much except equalizing field, or forcing the player into a guessing game with A+B/B+K. 1AB is risky and puts you on the defensive. At best, it resets the field. Breaking turtles, and ignorant players it can work, but its also really gimmicky. 44A+B isn't going to fix that.
 
Yes to a lot of the things you said. But like I said, I was talking post 1AB gimmicks, and mentioned 1AB, 44A+B as a gimmick similar in function, but superior in just about every way to 1AB, 4A+B. Not as a cast iron tactic to remove the disadvantage! I've been having surprising success when using it very sparingly or after training the opponent the right way. Which is why I said don't dare overuse it, that gets you killed! :)

I'm not really on board with assuming that someone knows my character's frames, unless they prove it. But if I do see them trying NSB, twister etc after my 1AB on hit, I usually 1AB, block punish. They usually get the message soon enough!
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Well doesn't 44a+b work after some guard crushes too? So at that point it's useful for max damage combos.
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Before patch 1.02 it was guaranteed after bK Guard Crush.

Now only after BT B+K and 22_88A BE but discard the latter unless you want to be generous.
 
Forgive my bad playing, the match was super laggy.

Maybe it doesn't have any practical applications, but you can't tell me this wasn't a glorious!


Edit: I should probably say that I'm referring to 4A+B lol
 
We generally don't find people getting hit with silly shit "glorious." Funny maybe, but not glorious or exciting or anything like that. Maybe that's just me, I dunno.
 
docvizzo said:
Im starting to really like 8A. 25 DMG, turns opponent to BT, evades throws, lows and only -2 on Block (!!!) and +8 on Hit.

Together with i11 aB that means you cant be attacked after this one. Im trying to use this the same way Lolo used Yoshis 8K in SC4, just as a defensive option when i expect throws etc.
Lets see if i can include this into my repertoire of annoyance...
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It's high though right? Yoshi's 8K was awesome because it was mid and safe. Still, very very solid numbers if used properly. I'll have to try this out.
 
theres no reason to use 8A though, theres so many TC moves in the game and the risk vs payoff isin't really worth it.
 
Of course there is a reason to use, for example when you play Alpha where in certain situations you dont want to get thrown and dont want to eat a 100 DMG mid...eating an airhit to escape more potential damage sometimes is a viable option.
 
Also its pretty annoying for the opponent. Sure its not something like Yoshis 8K, which is mid, but it has other nice properties, like being a blockstun and turning opponent into BT with massive plus frames.

Sometimes i know "i WILL win this round, if i dont eat huuuge damage". When you play against Alpha a lot like me you will understand this. A throw means 100 DMG. So i rather take 5oish at max for an airhit + followup, since i know i can kill him easily with my chipdamage.
 
ShinJin said:
6A+B is good?, i can't get someone to stand still long enough to block BB letalone something as slow as 6A+B.
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Yeah it is from a distance, beats the guard damage down and on hit you can do a non-scaled CE... as Docvizzo used on me and I've been rinsing it ever since :-)

I dunno why people even mention 8A+B, it's useless. The only situation I can think to use it is when an opponent is landing after being launched you can get DC in BT and do the Kick unblockable if they've rolled behind you.
 
MetalLink69 said:
*snip*
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MetalLink, the real crime here is not the gameplay, it's using that arm piece on Cervantes. It looks stupid with his stance because it puts a wall between Cervantes' face and his opponent, so it either looks like he's cowering behind his armor or he's completely blinded. Oh, this thread is for gameplay?...

*clears throat*

I'm glad someone gave respect to his :(3):_:(9)::A:. The effective thing about this and :(2):_:(8)::K: is that if you start walking sideways, your opponent is most likely going to throw out a horizontal, making it an easy read.

As far as :4::A+B:, it's very character specific. Try it on a stance-happy Siegfried or Maxi. And "stance-happy" pretty much includes every Siegfried and Maxi. DO NOT EVER use it in a Cervantes mirror.

I took one look at :6::A+B: early on and discarded it due to speed and linearity. Then I picked it up later when I realized it did a rapeload of damage.


The real reason I came to this thread is because I use :6::B:,:A+B+K:. I don't see many people talking about it, mostly because they are raving about :4::bA+B+K:. Yes, :4::bA+B+K: is all around a better move, but :6::B:,:A+B+K: is a hit-comfirmable Brave Edge. And, more importantly, although situational, it rings out your opponent if his back is against a wall. It's been my little secret for a while and I haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll put it out there. Use it on the walls in Ivy's, Patroklos', Misturugi's stage, et cetera. It's much easier to land than :4::4::A+B: and it's guaranteed after a :2::(B+K): quake stun.
 
6B BE is not hitconfirmable. You can confirm the BE on Hit, but then the BE followup can be blocked by the opponent. If you slightly delay the BE to try a hitconfirm this move is not a natural hit combo anymore. Only a 6B BE slide input is a NH.

If it was Hit confirmable it would be awesome. Its good to punish some lows etc though, massive damage.

Please check again, im pretty sure about this but maybe you can crosscheck.
 
Actually there are a few ambiguous setups that makes your opponent think how to block 2[B+K] up close. Has happened to me various time but I haven't personally taken the time to further experiment with it. Has happened to the extend of the 2B+K looking like it will hit them and instead they get hit by the quake. Well, thinking about it... I think I'll start working on it.

Aside that, I think there are a few tech trap setups with it as well.
 
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