Vampire Swordsman, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Fencing.

Cerrus

Cerrus

[08] Mercenary
Okay, so, this thread is about player experiences with Raphael that they would like to share. Half the fun is having people there to appreciate the great things you've accomplished.

The main inspiration for this thread was exactly what the title implies.

Ever since Zasalamel wasn't in SCV (R.I.P. buddy) I needed to find a new main. Because I fence IRL, I figured Raphael would be a fun character to learn. However, when I would play him against my friends I fell into the trap of relying too much on preparation, and he would just side-step my Raph and I would die time and time again to his Mitsurugi. I kept on complaining about how Raph lacked any good moves to counter someone who continually sidestepped.


However. I decided to stop worrying and just simply get better. Just the other night when I played Raph, I cleaned house.

TL;DR Yeah, Raph might have shortcomings, but if you play well, you'll win.

Edit: In an effort to make this at least somewhat of a practical post, I find that the most effective way to deal with sidestepping is to make use of:
1. 11/33/77A,B~prep: this usually catches them while they are sidestepping close by, and they don't have time to get out of line with prep. However, using this move requires foresight due to the slow startup time in 11A
2. 22A: a quick move with good horizontal distance, this normally throws them off guard, especially if you have used this move several times recently, they begin to fear punishment and sidestep less
3. Using prep to track sidestepping: if you use 6BB BE, just wait a split second before cancelling into BE, while you are in prep, Raph tracks just enough so that if the are done with their sidestep in the cancellable window, you can BE right as they are about to attack without leaving prep
 
Can you elaborate a little more on the use of 44AB Prep? I want to try and use it in my game at least a little, but it has such a slow start up that it seems only useful for punishing whiffs, even though I think 22B is a better punishing move over all.
 
Cerrus said:
3. Using prep to track sidestepping: if you use 6BB BE, just wait a split second before cancelling into BE, while you are in prep, Raph tracks just enough so that if the are done with their sidestep in the cancellable window, you can BE right as they are about to attack without leaving prep
Click to expand...

Er?? You can delay the BE? Do you mean the entire 6BB(BE) string right ?
 
I appreciate this fencer allot.
played him since sc3 and never going back.

more reasons to love this char.. i just took second place in the Finnish championship match yesterday.
won myself a nice pair of +100€ high performance tritan head set and a calibur shirt.
Also got a mention in the local newspapper.

Lifes good with fencing.
 
Leonyx said:
Can you elaborate a little more on the use of 44AB Prep? I want to try and use it in my game at least a little, but it has such a slow start up that it seems only useful for punishing whiffs, even though I think 22B is a better punishing move over all.
Click to expand...
You see, that's the thing, it is very slow, so you can't use it when you and your opponent are vying for that crucial hit. But, its extraordinarily useful after you have landed a 6BBB combo or you have been poking at them for a while. Pretty much, when they are in a defensive mindset, you can throw this move out because it, a) hits them while they sidestep getting you into a prep mixup game, b) simply continually applies pressure when they are defending.

So, what happens is when you know they aren't going to risk counter-attacking, throw out 44/11/77 A,B. Or, when you know they are going to sidestep but not attack, do the same thing, and lo and behold you find yourself in prep ready to go

WuHT said:
Er?? You can delay the BE? Do you mean the entire 6BB(BE) string right ?
Click to expand...

Well, its not a "true" delay mechanic, but what happens is, there is just the slightest of seconds between you pressing 6BB and being able to cancel into BE. So, what happens is, if they quick (this being the important part) sidestep after the first two hits of 6BB, then you wait for the moment their quick sidestep ends, and if you get the timing down well you can connect with the BE part of it.
 
The main thing about Raphael is that you cannot try to rely on a massive volly of moves (most of the time).
Usually you have to wait for the enemy to make an error, unlike characters like Nightmare where you would try to use huge mixups and overwhelm your opponent.
Most of the time you will find yourself trying to avoid peoples moves, sidestep, etc. Though I find a fun thing to do sometimes is that when you score a knockdown, if you know the opponent is going to roll backwards, try to hit them with your unblockable. It is very risky though and should be handled with care.
 
I feel like god is testing me every time I play Raphael.

other than the obvious 3A and AB I feel like I'm SOL when they are right up on me. I feel like I'm always playing him wrong. I swear I spend more time with my palms on my face then on the pad. (which is terrible because he's my best character) As far as punishment goes, I think I'm always dong something that another move could punish better with.

Though it is very rewarding to capitalize off of error on the opponents behalf, or when I land CH 3A against the wall.
 
VWBF said:
I feel like god is testing me every time I play Raphael.

other than the obvious 3A and AB I feel like I'm SOL when they are right up on me. I feel like I'm always playing him wrong. I swear I spend more time with my palms on my face then on the pad. (which is terrible because he's my best character) As far as punishment goes, I think I'm always dong something that another move could punish better with.

Though it is very rewarding to capitalize off of error on the opponents behalf, or when I land CH 3A against the wall.
Click to expand...

His 2a is one of the best in the game, and 6bb is unsteppable on hit afterwards. But if they're that close, that means you failed to 3b them on the way in. If they want to get close, they have to stop sidestepping and commit. Verts all day.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
His 2a is one of the best in the game, and 6bb is unsteppable on hit afterwards. But if they're that close, that means you failed to 3b them on the way in. If they want to get close, they have to stop sidestepping and commit. Verts all day.
Click to expand...
Hitting people with his strong verticals on reaction when they walk forward is something Raph had to do since day 1. Anyone who is still complaining that he can't just throw verticals out there to fish for random hits are either new to the character or too stubborn to admit that he is not suited for lazy play.
 
hudathan we will see raph results in tournaments....
there are so many lazy players around :)

What i like of 8wayrun, if a players have his opinions even if heavily supported is a scrub...
You are not allowed to discuss, you are just allowed to condescend.

Raph is just noob killer....unfortunately even most veterans (excluding few) are inexperienced now...strength and weaknesses are clearer as the community grows in quality....
 
So far no one has called anyone else anything. The only argument I've personally made is that the game is too new for most of us to have any concrete opinion on the matter one way or another. So when I see a bunch of week 1 complaints I'm going to tell people to chill. Raph could turn out to be terrible, great, or somewhere in the middle, but it's too early for any of us to talk about the game in absolutes.
 
Yeah, after getting sidestepped to hell these last couple weeks, I kind of put raph on the backburner, however after seeing just one played in my online sessions, I find myself coming right back.

Oh Raphael, I just cant quit you...
 
Raphs regular 3B would have been his ideal mid in a run-and-poke game. Now its under 20 damage, doens't push back as much so it limits you to blocking a lot more. 22B you'd have a good chance with QS or even backdash-guard, is hit confirmable and has way better rewards when it hits (barring the crumple alignment glitch).

It is now undeniable that 22B >> 3B + 3(B) variants in any top 10 raph list.
 
Yes. I would say, without a doubt, 22B is the best move Raph has. Safe, relative fast, good damage, step, mid.
 
Honestly 22B is what keeps him competitive. You can't argue that it's not an amazing move. And forcing them to respect that move opens up his mid range game so much. I haven't seen anyone treat that move like the -10 it is, mostly because if they're that far away, they can't do much that doesn't play into your hands somehow anyway.

I've had way less instances of the 3B whiffing afterwards, as well. I'm not sure if it's just how I'm using the move or what, but it doesn't happen as much anymore. Still needs to be fixed though.
 
22B is and always was boss when it could be applied as an 8wr move. It was 4B in 3 which I thought was a horrid idea for it. Was it also 4B in SCIV too?
 
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