Oboro
Namunamunamuna...
I think 18 Viola players clicked no haha!!
Viola : Current Issues, and what needs to be fixed.
- Thread starter Yue_Zhongtiqin
- Start date
taffertier
[10] Knight
Well when you think about her weaknesses she kind of needs to have such powerful pressure. She is essentially only a threat when she is at absolute point blank range, and only after she performs 6B+K. Then she goes into her shenanigans. Everything else can be an uphill battle for her, getting in on some characters like Nightmare or Mitsu can be a real challenge. Her range is horrible, even with her orb her range doesnt get much better. Her frames without 6B+K are mostly unsafe with minimal push back. We have a character who boils down entirely to one move and her success hinges on getting in specific situations, which is why she controls that area so well and why she thrives on remaining in that situation. Once Viola isnt up in your face she has to work her way back in and get back into frame advantage, meanwhile she's playing your game until such a time that she can score a knock down or catch you excessively blocking.
It just seems a bit odd that people complain about a character who's only effective while at the closest range possible and only when she's performed a certain attack. While other characters can make use of their moveset at several ranges and in multiple situations, Viola only remains highly effective by being as close as possible and after using 6B+K.
Oboro
Namunamunamuna...
But it's not really much of a specific to her weakness. Good use of her Orb covers her from punishment for the most part so really unless you are whiffing you aren't taking damage so it's no more of a weakness than any other close ranged character. Also the orb recall is a great infinite range poke for people trying to maintain distance on you, forcing them to react to you still and the ability to block or move while forcing your opponent to stay put really makes it much more easy for her to approach when compared to other close range characters and when she's in, she's easily the most dominant up close character. Her only real specific weakness is her susceptibility to revenge equipped moves.
OutCast
[10] Knight
Certain moves like 66B should most certainly not be changed. But obviously B+K BE should be taken down. A+B BE and 66K BE aren't very useful unless you fight someone that constantly falls for it.
What I think about Viola, she's over powered in someways. Honestly I wish there was a neutral button in the poll because she's also under powered in some other ways. For instance even though B+K BE has high damage, it's still hard to make the orb be right where you need it. And of course the glitch with 44A+B BE where the orb attacks don't come out needs to be fixed. Viola seems neutral to me honestly.
Still waiting on the purpose of the CE though......
What I think about Viola, she's over powered in someways. Honestly I wish there was a neutral button in the poll because she's also under powered in some other ways. For instance even though B+K BE has high damage, it's still hard to make the orb be right where you need it. And of course the glitch with 44A+B BE where the orb attacks don't come out needs to be fixed. Viola seems neutral to me honestly.
Still waiting on the purpose of the CE though......
Solo
[14] Master
To win in clutch low health situations without thinking at all.
taffertier
[10] Knight
Not really, the orb only covers so much distance. Which is why 6B+K only covers her well when she's at absolute point blank range, else wise you can step around it for free. Only really useful at semi-close range when she does her 1A+B in combination with it. And she isnt forcing you to stay put in all situations, you have plenty of options to get out of her 6B+K set ups unless she used the ground stun, and even then some moves will move your model forward while still being safe effectively getting you out of it. And revenge moves are hardly her only real weakness, if you dont think her incredibly short range is a problem for her than you dont even understand the character at all. It's partly the reason the Nightmare match up for her is one of the worst in the game, not just because of his revenge bubble, but his back step alone destroys a lot of her options. Also her range is further hindered by the fact that some of her best attacks dont move her model forward at all, unlike other short range characters like Natsu or Maxi who have many attacks that covers distance in addition to attacking.
Well she does have to set it up first. With such a long start up it's not like she can throw it out in the middle of a staring contest without worry.
- Thread starter
- #47
Yue_Zhongtiqin
[10] Knight
You bring up a good point on the first one. The second one I slightly disagree with, Hardly anyone uses her UB. Not even me. But then again, a Free UB shouldn't be allowed. Its like winning the lottery, that of which you having all winning tickets and everyone else having the losing tickets.
taffertier
[10] Knight
I like the idea behind spending a whole bar for 20 damage, the UB only comes up in really niche situations where you need such a low amount of damage to end the round. Before the first patch the UB apparently did even more so they knew it shouldnt do much damage. This seems like a set up they knew was part of the character and wanted her to keep it. Cant the UB be JGd as soon as the CE ends anyway? Do this and the opponent essentially wasted a bar to be put at frame disadvantage.
A huge frame disadvantage... get ready to get killed afterwards. CE > Unblockable is terrible if your opponent knows JG.
O_O Are you serious? Her CE is the best in the game (if not it's a contender).
O_O Are you serious? Her CE is the best in the game (if not it's a contender).
Oboro
Namunamunamuna...
Her CE gives you 2 free 50/50 attempts that are safe and if your opponent guesses wrong either time, they lose about half their health. Imagine if Maxi's or Pyrrha's CE tracked 100% that you had two block twice that sometimes hit high, sometimes hit low and was totally safe. Now give it more damage! Oh yeah it could be a throw too or instant kill you if your health is low in the middle of a tight match. Kayane abused the shit out of all of those "balanced" qualities at the last MLG event. So it's not like it just functional against scrubs. Every match against a good Viola clearly looks like an up hill battle unless that Viola is just outclassed as a player.
Oboro
Namunamunamuna...
Hahaha you're right it's like a snake, it'll only cover as much distance as the size of the arena you are fighting in haha!! ;)
But on a serious note, I don't foresee any more patches. Not for simple character balance so we all might as well get used to what we do and don't like at this point. I think we're most likely to just get an $$F4:AE package that costs money and comes with retuning and a couple characters.
- Moderator
- #52
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
There are quite a number of characters who Viola has just a bad matchup with.
Patrokolos' , Pyrrhas' , Astaroth, Algol etc. quite a few really.
Viola really suck at punishing anything except wiff, she also cannot punish throws decently (and Im pretty sure you cannot 8A+B throw wiffs), has poor range and suspensible to aGI. Once you know the matchup she will function much like Hilde - great damage, but everything else is bad.
For some characters, though, she is a huge problem. And it may hurt the game in the long run.
Patrokolos' , Pyrrhas' , Astaroth, Algol etc. quite a few really.
Viola really suck at punishing anything except wiff, she also cannot punish throws decently (and Im pretty sure you cannot 8A+B throw wiffs), has poor range and suspensible to aGI. Once you know the matchup she will function much like Hilde - great damage, but everything else is bad.
For some characters, though, she is a huge problem. And it may hurt the game in the long run.
J
JustinAkatsuki
Guest
I don't think another patch is coming either :/ just doesn't feel like it and I agree with belial. I compare viola to raiden in mortal kombat.....raiden was so one dimensional he had moves that were very strong to the point if you were to nerf those moves he be either weak or not so strong anymore..but then again sometimes too much is too much.
MntT77
[10] Knight
Viola isn't at all one-dimensional. :/
J
JustinAkatsuki
Guest
eh well im referring to like 6B+K yeah many people feel if something about that move changed than she would be really weak, kinda like in MK where people complained about raiden's teleport and superman special. Which those two were very strong but nerf those moves then he would be weak since raiden sucked everywhere such as movement, a slow jump in, bad zoning.
Even if something did changed to her set 6B+k I still don't think she'll be bad.
OutCast
[10] Knight
Slow startup+low damage+not a good use of meter in a combo+ useless against someone who can Just Guard=Failure CE.
Honestly no one has Just Guarded when I did it, but I guarantee it'll happen eventually.
If it's start up weren't slow, then I suppose it's useful.
CE~BB~3B would be a good startup if the CE were faster, but it isn't, therefore it isn't very useful as other CEs.
MntT77
[10] Knight
SET 6B+K is seriously overrated. Not in the sense that I don't think the move is awesome (because it clearly is), but Viola has so much more going for her. Even without it she'd still have hella strong combos (albeit fewer set-ups for them), solid close-range pressure, a great throw game, good low pokes...
You know who is one-dimensional, though? Pyrrha Ω. For someone with such a steep learning curve, her fighting strategy ends up being surprisingly simple.
taffertier
[10] Knight
Her low pokes arent good, they're either massively unsafe or have pitiful range and damage. If Viola didnt have 6B+K i dont think you'd be seeing her using very many lows cause they put her at such disadvantage. Her close range pressure would vanish entirely and her 44A combo would get significantly weaker as well. It is a move that's absolutely crucial to Viola.
Destinizish
Now Sleep Forever
This is a really lame argument. And your bias is glaring. Look, before Viola was buffed, I was all over these forums saying she was already strong, and those buffs might make her too good. People here argued with me. Hell most people told me I was wrong and Viola was pitiful and did no damage. (This simply wasn't the case; I made videos which showed ways to approach 100 damage prepatch, as well.) However, your current stance on Viola is just as radical and just as dumb as saying Viola was bad pre-patch.
So lets get into your argument:
You say that Viola can get into "blockstun induced mixups" freely, and that her mixup from it is safe.
This is untrue.
Viola's 6B+K has an animation, as short as it may be. In order to "freely" create a 6B+K mixup, she is willingly putting herself at disadvantage. She cannot continue pressure if you simply respond by attacking. You will interrupt her with a CH. In SCV, CH can lead to ridiculous damage. Not only that, but the orb in this mixup is also GIable, so let's say you do decide to block against her: aGI or GI after, and you've got huge free damage on her. If you fucked up and ate a 1K->orb hit? That's cool, she's gotten 33 damage on you and fairly minor advantage. Holy hell, that's so OP! I don't even understand why a character has this! /rollseyes. You duck? Yes, of course you eat damage. You're asking to be launched, and getting launched is bad from EVERYONE in this game.
If you weren't talking about 6B+K, all other recalls can be stepped or ducked.
You say Viola's orb recalls are "great infinite range pokes" and that good use of your orb "keeps her safe"
These are both untrue.
Every single one of Viola's recalls are steppable. At long range, there's nothing stopping you from simply stepping. At mid range, an advancing TC beats all of her recalls except 2B+K, which has a VERY specific animation, and once again, can be stepped. And even 2B+K can be beaten out by some advancing TCs because it's significantly slower than B+K in starting its travel.
You say that Viola is safe. This is also untrue.
Viola is quite unsafe in many places. Many people refuse to practice and find these places and are getting exposed for it. You, apparently, are included. Viola is strong. She has a very strong pressure game, and some characters don't respond well to that pressure. When she gets a lead, she can take it miles. However, most of the cast also does have a response for her in many of her standard pressure strings. Sure, she can force guesses and can do so in many places, but she gets hurt REALLY BAD when the other guy guesses correctly.
You compare her CE to Maxi and Pyrrha's CEs. This comparison is completely laughable, and really shouldn't be made. Their designs are different, and thus their CEs will be designed for different reasons.
However, I'll humor you:
Her CE would be completely awful if it didn't provide a 50/50. It only does 100+ damage if she wastes even more meter and you guess incorrectly. She can only grab you out of it if you don't duck. The throws can also be broken. Her only "guaranteed" damage here is her UB. Even then, I've seen a couple players CONSISTENTLY JG this. So no, it's not as broken a tool as you think.
So yes, while I think Viola may need a little slap on the wrist in the damage department, she is by no means OP or as strong as the current top 5.