Viola : Current Issues, and what needs to be fixed.

Is Viola Overpowered? Be Honest...


  • Total voters
    133

Yue_Zhongtiqin

[10] Knight
Hey 8wayrunners, Today I'm going to be talking about Viola (Obviously). We currently know that Viola has a handful of problems ranging from DMG output for certain moves such as
"(N/O) b+kBE" , Attack Properties "66B" (Changed to same effect as counter hit) and a HANDFUL of glitches which we know alot about and can be quite irritating for tourney play.

Let me know what you would like to see changed, any predictions if she gets buffs or nerfs, where i went wrong etc.

Bonus:
Also if you could change Viola, such as adding moves, character design...what would you change? :)
Shine like the Moon and Keep it crystal
:sc5vio1: YUE :sc5vio1:
 

Slade

[14] Master
I would just like to add this to clarify something:
Overpowered does not mean broken. Broken is when the character is so absurd that they make other characters unviable. SCIV Hilde is broken. SCV Viola is not. Overpowered just means they're stronger than they should be, often frustratingly so.

That said, Viola is overpowered, but not game-breakingly so.
 

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
I would just like to add this to clarify something:
Overpowered does not mean broken. Broken is when the character is so absurd that they make other characters unviable. SCIV Hilde is broken. SCV Viola is not. Overpowered just means they're stronger than they should be, often frustratingly so.

That said, Viola is overpowered, but not game-breakingly so.

Actually, I wouldn't call her too overpowered. She's in a spot that she's good in, but needs slight damage nerfs.

She isn't frustrating because of how effective she is. She's frustrating because she's a character who employs nothing but mindgames. Guessing that much can get frustrating, and if you don't know the pressure, it looks downright broken. But if you have done your homework, she's not all too terrifying.
 

Yue_Zhongtiqin

[10] Knight
Actually, I wouldn't call her too overpowered. She's in a spot that she's good in, but needs slight damage nerfs.

She isn't frustrating because of how effective she is. She's frustrating because she's a character who employs nothing but mindgames. Guessing that much can get frustrating, and if you don't know the pressure, it looks downright broken. But if you have done your homework, she's not all too terrifying.
I agree about the Nerfs, So many people play Viola to the point everyone knows her tricks now. lol. She's the character that got the most attention for some reason.
 

Sett

[14] Master
I heard people saying that the 6A+B should be made useless in juggles. I'm no Viola expert so I can't really say how much impact that would make.
 

Sett

[14] Master
lol maybe I mean 6B+K.

I'm all kinetic memory.

You know, the one where she throws the ball forward to bound the opponent on the floor so she can BE them up into the combo again.

Edit: I do mean 6A+B.... You tripping man.
 

Yue_Zhongtiqin

[10] Knight
lol maybe I mean 6B+K.

I'm all kinetic memory.

You know, the one where she throws the ball forward to bound the opponent on the floor so she can BE them up into the combo again.

Edit: I do mean 6A+B.... You tripping man.
LMAO.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
Oh yay another one of these threads.

What i would like to see changed is making some moves more useful like A+B BE and toning down her damage in a way that isnt too excessive or too ineffectual.
 

Aragh

[09] Warrior
wow, again? i guess that the patch wishlist thread was deleted so i'll write it once more:
- increased damage scaling in combos, so they deal a little less damage and therefore doing the longest possible versions is less worthwhile - opponent's irritarion levels drop down
- 6A+B not useable in combos - having 170 dmg (or more?) of a 3B is seriously damn near broken
- ORB 33A, 44B, 33K made safer
- A+B(BE) enabling to combo into AAB - would be a good alternative for 44A with 44A itself being stronger of the two but in turn putting opponent in CH state (lower damage combos)
I remember i also supported idea of weakening SET 6B+K 1K (it is currently + on block) but im not sure how this could be done, and SET backgrab not allowing for 44A to combo but after i did some frames research lately i also don't see how that one may happen. Plus it is not all that necessary with reduced damage in combos.

As for a question if Viola is op or not, its not that easy and im not going to answer yet. She certainly is a character that is hard to play against and often has risk/reward ratio skewed in her favor, but there are some characters in the game that are by far more powerful, whether in damage they deal, in dealing with step, in okizeme, in range etc. like Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Algol, Alpha or even Omega.
 

Yue_Zhongtiqin

[10] Knight
Oh yay another one of these threads.

What i would like to see changed is making some moves more useful like A+B BE and toning down her damage in a way that isnt too excessive or too ineffectual.
A+B BE? Do you mean B+K BE? the Orb Explosion?
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
A+B BE? Do you mean B+K BE? the Orb Explosion?

Nah i mean Set A+B BE. That is the correct input for this BE no? Where at the end she calls the ball back to her by sliding it on the floor and says "I'm tired of this".

- 6A+B not useable in combos - having 170 dmg (or more?) of a 3B is seriously damn near broken

Are you sure these 3B 6A+B combos arent techable? Cause everytime i tested those out it never combos. They always ukemi out of it.
 

Aragh

[09] Warrior
Nah i mean Set A+B BE. That is the correct input for this BE no? Where at the end she calls the ball back to her by sliding it on the floor and says "I'm tired of this".
Are you sure these 3B 6A+B combos arent techable? Cause everytime i tested those out it never combos. They always ukemi out of it.

A+B(BE) is the correct input, we mean the same move. A+B not B+K where the orb floats to Viola, Yue :)
6A+B 2B+K(BE) combos for sure, its a matter of holding 6A+B for correct amount of time and hitting them in right moment in the air. I wrote it somewhere in the combo thread i think.
 

Paranormal_Oreo

[12] Conqueror
I heard people saying that the 6A+B should be made useless in juggles. I'm no Viola expert so I can't really say how much impact that would make.
It should be possible only after high LNC I think. It gives her some of the best RO potential in the game.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
6A+B 2B+K(BE) combos for sure, its a matter of holding 6A+B for correct amount of time and hitting them in right moment in the air. I wrote it somewhere in the combo thread i think.

But it works off of 3B? I know that 6A+B combos in certain situations but in the 3B case all my 2B+K BE relaunches dont connect. It only works off of high launchers. Particularly Set B+K BE, not sure if 33_99 B would work. Set the CPU's Ukemi options to left or right and watch as they escape way faster than the relaunch can connect.
 

Aragh

[09] Warrior
But it works off of 3B? I know that 6A+B combos in certain situations but in the 3B case all my 2B+K BE relaunches dont connect. It only works off of high launchers. Particularly Set B+K BE, not sure if 33_99 B would work. Set the CPU's Ukemi options to left or right and watch as they escape way faster than the relaunch can connect.

it connects, you must be doing it wrong. I tested it many times on every ukemi setting. Its not easy at first, maybe you are releasing 6A+B too early?
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
it connects, you must be doing it wrong. I tested it many times on every ukemi setting. Its not easy at first, maybe you are releasing 6A+B too early?

It might be because the palm portion is connection when it should just be the ball. But if i'm right in front of them when i do 3B i dont know how i'm supposed to be able to only get the orb part cause i'm too close.
 

Ikuwayo

[08] Mercenary
But it works off of 3B? I know that 6A+B combos in certain situations but in the 3B case all my 2B+K BE relaunches dont connect. It only works off of high launchers. Particularly Set B+K BE, not sure if 33_99 B would work. Set the CPU's Ukemi options to left or right and watch as they escape way faster than the relaunch can connect.

I think we are talking about a different kind of 6A+B.

What he means is e.g. 3B AAB 6A+B (slightly charged) 2B+K BE AAB ender.

People like to see this nerfed because 6A+B barely damage scales. 3B AAB 6A+B (slightly charged) 2B+K BE AAB 66B 66A+BB does 122 damage (as opposed to 2A+B 2B+K BE which does 94). Still you don't seem to see this very often in battle because it's hard to pull off. If you charge it too little, the 2B+K BE won't connect, but if you charge it too much, the opponent won't be knocked to the ground and will siimply be dropped. The learning curve makes me think twice about completely removing it. IMO it would be just better to bring 2B+K BE to what it was in 1.01, where it did 10 damage instead of 20 and slightly nerf the damage of 6A+B on an airborne opponent. That alone would nerf the damage to a more respectable number but I wouldn't like to see it removed completely or to have it damage scaled too heavily.

I think Viola needs some slight damage nerfs here and bug fixes, but other than that she should really be left alone because she'll be just fine.
 

Aragh

[09] Warrior
It might be because the palm portion is connection when it should just be the ball. But if i'm right in front of them when i do 3B i dont know how i'm supposed to be able to only get the orb part cause i'm too close.
palm part doesnt matter as far as i reckon. What is important is that orb is held back long enough to hit them when they are on a certain height. Try 3B AAB 6A+B 2B+K(BE) and start holding 6A+B immediately after inputting AAB, before orb returns to you. Then, by the time it reaches you back release it. Opponent should land on their back a little bit further, making their recovery longer.
 

taffertier

[10] Knight
I think we are talking about a different kind of 6A+B.

What he means is e.g. 3B AAB 6A+B (slightly charged) 2B+K BE AAB ender.

People like to see this nerfed because 6A+B barely damage scales. 3B AAB 6A+B (slightly charged) 2B+K BE AAB 66B 66A+BB does 122 damage (as opposed to 2A+B 2B+K BE which does 94). Still you don't seem to see this very often in battle because it's hard to pull off. If you charge it too little, the 2B+K BE won't connect, but if you charge it too much, the opponent won't be knocked to the ground and will siimply be dropped. The learning curve makes me think about completely removing it. IMO it would be just better to bring 2B+K BE to what it was in 1.01, where it did 10 damage instead of 20 and slightly nerf the damage of 6A+B on an airborne opponent. That alone would nerf the damage to a more respectable number but I wouldn't like to see it removed completely or to have it damage scaled too heavily.

I think Viola needs some slight damage nerfs here and bug fixes, but other than that she should really be left alone because she'll be just fine.

I was doing that, Set 3B, AAB, 6A+B, 2B+K BE etc. I was always too close to get the orb portion, even so i probably shouldnt get used to it, it sounds too finicky and will most likely get patched in some way. But i think your proposed changes are good, i dont know why no one thinks that reducing the damage of 2B+K BE back to 10 wouldnt go a long ways in reducing her damage, she really relies on the relaunches and the damage they give isnt exactly minimal. With scaling they would start to do 2 maybe 3 damage in some combos.