Viola Frame Data Discussion

Thread starter #1

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
[notice]Viola's Frame Data is nearly finished in her wiki, which you can view at:

Character Notations

  • ORB = Orb held by Viola.
  • SET = Orb set in the field.

Horizontal Attacks

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Gemini Zenith Succedent 12 10 -15 -8 +4 +4
:A: :H: :G: cancel
Gemini Zenith Succedent 12 22 -15 -10 +6 +6
:A::A: :H::H: NC
Gemini Zenith Succedent 12 22 -18 -2 -2
ORB :A::A::B: :H::H::H: NC / ~SET
Gemini Zenith Succedent 12 32 +5 +6 +6
SET :A::A::B: :H::H::H: NC / ~ORB
Aquarius Cadent 17 10 -6 0 0
:6::A: :H:
Aquarius Cadent 17 28 -16 0 0
:6::A::A: :H::L: NCC / ~FC
Taurus Aurora 17 26 -4 +12 +12
:6::A::B: :H::H: NCC / TC / ~SET
Cancer Afterglow 15 14 -16 -8 +2 +2
:3::A: :M: TC
Aquarius Dusk 13 12 -6 +8 +8 (31)
:2::A: :SL: ~FC
Aquarius Descendant 27 10 -22 -20 +3 KND
:1::A: :L: TC / ~FC
Zodiac Whip 18 24 -17 -13 -5 +3
ORB :4::A: :H::SM: TS
Zodiac Whip 18 12 -9 +1 STN STN
SET :4::A: :H: TS / Opp. ~BT (hit)
Aquarius Twilight 12 12 -6 +8 +8 (31)
FC :A: :SL: TC
Libra Daybreak 18 20 -15 -6 +4 +4
WR :A: :M: Opp. ~Sideturned (hit)
Libra Whip 31 26 -8 +4 +4
ORB :7:*:8:*:9::A: :M: TJ / Opp. ~BT (hit)
Libra Whip 16
SET :7:*:8:*:9::A: :M: TJ / Opp. ~BT (hit)
House of Antichton Cancer 15 11 -10 +2 +2
BT :A: :H:
House of Antichton Aquarius 17 10 -6 +8 +8
BT :2::A: :SL: ~FC

Vertical Attacks


Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Pisces Zenith Succedent 14 14 -15 -8 +2 +2
:B: :M: :G: cancel
Pisces Zenith Succedent 14 30 -14 -5 +4 +2
:B::B: :M::M: NC
Pisces Zenith Succedent 14 30 -13 -2 -2
ORB :B::B::B: :M::M::H: NC / ~SET
Pisces Zenith Succedent 14 40 +8 +8
SET :B::B::B: :M::M::H: NC / ~ORB
Aries Club 16 18 -15 -6 +6 +6 16
:6::B: :M:
Capricornus Sword 18 15 -22 -14 LNC LNC 15
:3::B: :M: TC[9-16] / ORB version has extra pushback
Aries Hammer 14 20 -8 +2 +2
ORB :2::B: :M::SM: ~FC / NC
Aries Hammer 14 14 -17 -8 +2 +2
SET :2::B: :M: ~FC
ORB FC :B: :M::SM: ~FC / NC / TC
SET FC :B: :M: ~FC / TC
Capricornus Ascendant 25 16 -20 +4 STN
:1::B: :M: TC / CH STN[19] / LNC back on air hit
Scorpius Needle 21 32 -16 -9 STN STN 11
:4::B: :M: STN[14]
Capricornus Dawn 16 26 -8 +4 STN 12
WR :B: :M: TC
Aries Claw 29 30 -29 -8 +4 +4
ORB :7:*:8:*:9::B: :M::SM: NC / TJ / ~FC / ~SET
Aries Claw 29 14 -29 -18 KND KND
SET :7:*:8:*:9::B: :M: TJ / ~FC

Kick Attacks

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Sign of Quintile 13 14 -12 -8 +2 +2 (22)
:K: :H: :G: cancel
Sign of Semi-Square 20 22 -18 -4 KND KND
:6::K: :H: TC / ~BT
Sign of Trine 16 18 -14 -7 +7 +7
:3::K: :M:
Sign of Square 15 14 -15 -14 -2 -2 (31)
:2::K: :L: ~FC
14 -15 -14 -2 -2 (31)
FC :K: :L: ~FC / TC
Sign of Quincunx 18 18 -21 -16 -2 -2
:1::K: :L: TC
Sign of Sextile 16 20 -18 -10 +2 +2
:4::K: :H:
Conjunction Sign 20 22 -2 +4 +4 13
WR :K: :M: Opp. FrC (hit/block)
Fiery Sagitta Sign 24 26 KND KND
ORB :8:*:9::K: :M::SM: NCC / TJ
Fiery Sagitta Sign 24 16 -7 +5 STN
SET :8:*:9::K: :M:
Opposing Sign of Quintile 15 16 -8 +2 +2
BT :K: :H:
Opposing Sign of Semi-Square 17 12 -14 -2 -2
BT :2::K: :L: ~FC

Simultaneous Press

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Libra Shield 21 8 -18 -12 +1 +1
ORB :A+B: :M:
Libra Shield 21 26 -18 -11 -11
ORB :A+B::A: :M::M: NC
Libra Shield 21 8, 18, 10 +4 KND KND
SET :A+B::A::B: :M::M::H: ~ORB / 3rd hit +14 on CH
Taurus Javelin 16 24 -12 -7 -7
ORB :6::A+B: :H::H: ~SET / Delayable / NC
Taurus Javelin 18 21 KND KND
SET :6::A+B: :H::H: NC / ~SET
Mars Savage 29 28 +9 KND KND
ORB :2::A+B: :SM: :GC: / ~SET
Mars Savage 25 15 -19 KND KND
SET :2::A+B: :SM: Opp. FrC (block)
Mars Savage 59 35 +31 KND KND
SET :2::(A)::+::(B): :SM: :GC:
Saturnus Fan 33 22 -21 KND KND
SET :1::A+B: :L: TJ / TC
Saturnus Fan 33 22 -21 KND KND
ORB :1::A+B: :L: TJ / TC / increased range
Venus Circlet 34 20 -2 +6 +6
ORB :4::A+B: :SM: ~SET
Venus Circlet 34 20 +16 +16
SET :4::A+B: :SM::SM: NC
Saturnus Meteorite 19 35 -26 -24 KND KND
ORB :8::A+B: :M::SM: TJ / TC
Saturnus Meteorite 19 36 -19 -13 KND KND
SET :8::A+B: :M::SM: TJ / TC
Luna Zenith - - - - - - -
ORB :B+K: :SS: ~SET
Terra Zenith 31 10 +9 +10 +20 -
SET :B+K: :H: ~ORB
Luna Moment 19 20 -1 +8 +8
ORB :6::B+K: :SM::SM: NC / ~SET
Luna Occultation 68 15
SET :6::B+K: :SM: Startup[F1-F20]
Nox Peregrine 10 +8 +8
SET :4::B+K: :GI: Autoevade[Verts., Thrusts F2-12] / ~ORB
Nox Peregrine 10
ORB :4::B+K: :GI: Autoevade[Verts., Thrusts F2-12] / ~SET
Luna Nadir - - - - - - -
ORB :2::B+K: :SS: ~SET / Performable in BT
Terra Nadir 55 10 KND KND -
SET :2::B+K: :SL: ~ORB / Performable in BT
Tonitrus Ring 21 33 -2 STN STN
BT :B+K: :H: TJ / ~SET

8-Way Run Moves

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Sol Grand Trine 18 24 -11 -1 -1
:(6)::A: :H:
Sol Grand Trine 18 34 -6 +2 +2
:(6)::A::A: :H::H: NC
Sol Grand Trine 18 52 -6 STN STN
:(6)::A::A::B: :H::H::H: NCC
Aries Sickle 16 38 -14 0 0
ORB :(3):*:(9)::A: :H::SM::SM:
Aries Sickle 16 22 -18 KND KND
SET :(3):*:(9)::A: :H::SM:
Venus Zenith Corona 20 36 -10 0 0
ORB :(2):*:(8)::A::B: :M::H::H:
Venus Nadir Corona 20 21 -14 +6 +6
SET :(2):*:(8)::A::B: :M::H:
Luna Tiara 20 18 -20 +2 +2
ORB :(4):*:(1):*:(7)::A: :M:
Luna Tiara 20 45 -14 KND KND
ORB :(4):*:(1):*:(7)::A::B: :M::M::SM: NC / Delayable / ~SET
Luna Tiara 20 18 -19 +2 +2
SET :(4):*:(1):*:(7)::A: :M:
Luna Tiara 20 38 -18 STN STN
SET :(4):*:(1):*:(7)::A::B: :M::M: NC / Delayable
Sagittarius Angular 21 30 -17 -6 KND KND 12
:(6)::B: :M: TC / Clean Hit C
Virgo Vesper 23 20 -18 -11 LNC LNC
:(3)::B: :M: TC
Virgo Vesper 32 36 -18 -3 SLNC SLNC 9
:(3)::(B): :M: TC
Leo Nightfall 17 15 -21 -7 +4 +4
:(2):*:(8)::B: :M: Opp. FrC (block/hit)
Leo Succedent 19 14, 16 -23 -14 KND KND
:(4):*:(1):*:(7)::B: :M::M: TC / TJ / NC / Clean Hit C
Vernal Sigil 19 10, 10 -16 -9 +5 +5
:(6)::K: :M::M: TC / TJ
Vermal Sigil 19 10, 10 -16 -9 +5 +5
:(6)::(K): :M::M::SS: TC / TJ / ~SET
Estival Sigil 17 22 -13 KND KND
:(3):*:(9)::K: :M: TJ
Zenith Autumnal Sigil 24 18 -20 -13 -1 -1
:(2):*:(8)::K: :M: TS
Zenith Autumnal Sigil 24 18 -25 -11 -11
ORB :(2):*:(8)::K::B: :M::SS: TS / ~SET
Nadir Autumnal Sigil 24 18, 10 +8 +9 +18
SET :(2):*:(8)::K::B: :M::H: TS / ~ORB
Hibernal Sigil 23 20 -15 0 0
:(4):*:(1):*:(7)::K: :L: STC / ~FC
Zodiac Nebula 22 10, 5 -8 +2 +2
ORB :(6)::A+B: :M::SM: NC / TC
Zodiac Nebula 22 10, 5, 15, 10 -18 +1 +1
ORB :(6)::A+B::B: :M::SM::M::SM: NC / TC / Opp. FrC (hit)
Zodiac Nebula 22 10 -16 -16 -6 -6
SET :(6)::A::+::B: :M: NC / TC
Zodiac Nebula 22 10, 15 -22 -22 -8 -8
SET :(6)::A::+::B::B: :M::M: NC / TC / Opp. FrC (hit)
Libra Prime 27 20, 20 -9 KND KND
ORB :(2):*:(8)::A+B: :H::M: Clean Hit B
Libra Prime 44 20 -9 KND KND
SET :(2):*:(8)::A+B: :M:
Occidental Peregrine - - - - - - -
ORB :(2):*:(8)::B+K: :SS: TS / ~SET
Occidental Peregrine 10
SET :(2):*:(8)::B+K: :H: TS / ~ORB
Empyrean Purge 76 22, 12, 54 :UA: KND KND n/a
ORB :(4)::A+B: :M::M::M: :G: cancel / NC
Empyrean Purge 76 22 :UA: STN STN -
SET :(4)::A+B: :M: :G: cancel
Sign of Contradiction 21 26 -22 KND KND
RUN :K: :L: TC

Edge Attacks

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Lilith Advent 19 10, 10, 15 -7 KND KND
:(6)::kA+B+K: :M::M:
:SM:
:BE: TC / TJ / NC / ~SET
Lilith Advent 19 10, 10, 35 +35 KND KND
:(6)::kA::+::B::+::(K): :M::M:
:SM:
:BE::GC: TC / TJ / ~SET
Lilith Shield 21 41 -7 LNC LNC
SET :a-small::+::bA+B+K: :M::M:
:SL:
:BE: NC
Lilith Triregnum 20 12, 20, 8, 8, 8 STN STN
SET :(4)::aA+B+K: :M::M:
:SM:x3
:BE: NC / Delayable / Opp. FrC (block)
Cancellable after first orb hit
Lilith Siege 17 15, 10, 10 KND KND
SET :(2):*:(8)::bA+B+K: :M:
:SM:x2
:BE: NC
Lilith Triumph 12 37, 13 SLNC SLNC
SET :b-small::+::kA+B+K: :SM: :BE: ~ORB
Lilith Recurrence 39 20 +16 KND KND
SET :2::b-small::+::kA+B+K: :SL: :BE: TC / ~ORB / LNC grounded
Arcanum Azrael 23 2, 1, 2, 1 ,2, 1, 2
:2::3::6::2::3::6::A+B+K: :SM:x7
:SS:
:CE: ~SET

Throw Attacks

Attack IMP DMG JG GRD HIT CH GB
Veneni Leones 17 45 :TH: :TH: KND KND
ORB :A+G: :H: :A: break
Cometae Tremor 17 50 :TH: :TH: KND KND
ORB :B+G: :H: :B: break
Noctilucens Papilio 17 57 :TH: :TH: KND KND
ORB, Left :A+G:*:B+G: :H: :A:*:B: break
Boneficia Defectio 17 55 :TH: :TH: KND KND
ORB, Right :A+G:*:B+G: :H: :A:*:B: break
Malefica Saltatio 17 20 :TH: :TH: +20 +20
SET :A+G: :H: :A: break / also side throw
Astri Fuga 17 40 :TH: :TH:
SET :B+G: :H: :B: break / also side throw
Animae Speculum 17 67 :TH: :TH: KND KND
ORB, Behind :A+G:*:B+G: :H: :A:*:B: break (Astaroth, Voldo, and Z.W.E.I. only)
Perliculosus Odor 17 4 :TH: :TH: +24 +24
SET, Behind :A+G:*:B+G: :H: :A:*:B: break (Astaroth, Voldo, and Z.W.E.I. only)
- Mage[/notice]

Note, any moves without W/O or N/O stay the same regardless of if orb is set or not.

Key:

N/O = No Orb W/O = With Orb BT = Back Turned FC = Full Crouch WS = While Standing

Data is in this order:

Move, Frames till Impact, On block, On hit.

A moves

W/O AAB i12 -8,-10,-18 | +4,+6,-2
N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6
6AA i17 -6,-16 | 0,0
6AB i17 -6,-4 | 0,+13
3A i15 -8 +2
2A i13 -6 +8
1A i27 -20 +3
W/O 4A i18 -13 -5
N/O 4A i18 -8 +1

B moves

W/O BBB i14 -8, -5,-13 | +2,+4,-2
N/O BBB i14 -8, -5, +8 | +2,+4,+8
6B i16 -6 +6
3B i18 -14 LNC
W/O 2B i14 -8 +2
N/O 2B i14 -- --
1B i25 -20 +4
4B i21 -9 STN

K Moves

K i13 -8 +2
6K i20 -4 KND
3K i16 -7 +7
2K i15 -14 -2
1K i18 -16 -2
4K i16 -10 +2

A+B Moves

W/O A+BA i21 -14,-18 | +1,-11
N/O A+BAB i21 -- --
W/O 6A+B i15 -19 -16
W/O 6(A+B) i15 -- --
N/O 6A+B i18 0 KND
N/O 6(A+B) i18 -- KND
W/O 2A+B i29 +9 KND
N/O 2A+B i25 -19 KND
N/O 2(A+B) i60 +31 KND
1A+B i33 -21 KND
9A+B i19 -23 KND
W/O 4A+B i35 -2 +6
N/O 4A+B i35 -- +17

B+K Moves

W/O 6B+K i19 -1 +8
N/O 4B+KB -- +8 +8

FC Moves

FC A i12 -6 +8
W/O FC B i14 -8 +2
N/O FC B i14 -8 +2
FC K i14 -14 -2

WS Moves

WS A i18 -14 -2
WS B i16 -8 +4
WS K i20 -2 +4

Jumping moves

9A i31 -8 +4
W/O 9B i29 -8 +4
N/O 9B i29 -18 KND
W/O 9K i24 -- KND
N/O 9K i24 -7 +5

8wayrun A moves

66AAB i18 -11,-6,-6 | -1, 2,KND
W/O 33/88A i16 -14 0
N/O 33/88A i16 -18 KND
W/O 22/88AB i20 -10 0
N/O 22/99AB i20 -14 +6
W/O 44AB i20 -20,-14 +2,KND
N/O 44AB i20 -20,-18 +2,KND

8wayrun B moves

66B i24 -13 +3
33/99B i25 -13 LNC
33/99(B) i32 -7 LNC
22/88B i17 -7 +4
44B i19 -14 KND

8wayrun K moves
66K i19 -9 +5
66(K) i19 -9 +5
33/99K i17 -13 KND
W/O 22/88KB i24 -13,-25 | -1,-11
N/O 22/88KB i24 -13,+8 | -1, +9
44K i23 -15 0

Simultaneous 8wayrun moves

W/O 66A+BB i22 -8,-18 | +2,+1
N/O 66A+BB i22 -16,-22 | -6,-8
W/O 22/88A+B i27 -9 KND
N/O 22/88A+B i36 -9 KND
44A+B i76 KND KND
N/O 22/88B+K i43 +9 +9

Running Moves

Run K i21 -22 KND

Throws

All i17

N/O A+G leaves you at +19
N/O B+G leaves you at +5
N/O Backthrow leaves you at +27

Back turned moves

BT A i15 -10 +2
BT FC A i17 -6 +8
BT B i17 -6 +4
BT FC B i17 -10 +2
BT K i15 -8 +2
BT FC K i17 -14 -2
BT B+K i21 -2 STN

Orb Recalls

B+K i31 +10 +9
6B+K i65 -- --
2B+K i55 -- --
BT 2B+K i55 -- --

Brave Edge

N/O A+B BE i21 -7 LNC
N/O 44A BE i20 -- KND
N/O 22/88B BE i17 -- KND
N/O 66K BE i19 -7 KND
N/O B+K BE i55 -- LNC
N/O 2B+K BE i32 KND
N/O BT 2B+K BE i33 -- KND

Critical Edge

236236A+B+K i23 -- --
 

Dagon

[08] Mercenary
Good stuff Destinizish! Question though: it looks like a lot of the moves are actually at better frame advantage on block...and that doesn't really make sense. Am I misunderstanding something?
 
Thread starter #3

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
Good stuff Destinizish! Question though: it looks like a lot of the moves are actually at better frame advantage on block...and that doesn't really make sense. Am I misunderstanding something?
I actually don't see a case like that. Block is listed before hit. In the case of strings, it's set out by hit. So for example

N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6

Means A is -8 on block, +4 on hit.

AA is -10 on block, +6 on hit

AAB is +5 on block, +6 on hit.
 

Dagon

[08] Mercenary
In the case of strings, it's set out by hit.
This was the part that was throwing me off. I thought that meant frame data with orb | frame data without orb. Thanks for the clarification. One more question? i# is how many frames elapse before the move hits, right? Like startup frames in Street Fighter?
 
Thread starter #5

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
This was the part that was throwing me off. I thought that meant frame data with orb | frame data without orb. Thanks for the clarification. One more question? i# is how many frames elapse before the move hits, right? Like startup frames in Street Fighter?
Yep, they're impact frames. It's the number of frames before the move impacts.

Just finished the movelist
 

XenofacT

[08] Mercenary
N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6

What does the notation after the | symbol represent?
Disclaimer: I'm new at reading frame data, so sorry if noob question.
 
Thread starter #9

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
N/O AAB i12 -8,-10,+5 | +4,+6,+6

What does the notation after the | symbol represent?
Disclaimer: I'm new at reading frame data, so sorry if noob question.
The | is only there to separate the strings visually. When I write

N/O AAB i12 -8 -10 +5 +4 +6 +6 it looks awful. So basically, commas separate hits of the string, the | is separating on block from on hit.

How it looks if I listed the entire string separately:

N/O A i12 -8 +4
N/O AA i12 -10 +6
N/O AAB i12 +5 +6

So yeah. The first number is the first hit of the string, etc.
 

XenofacT

[08] Mercenary
So the above says that in that 3 hit string, if it is stopped at 2, I would be at a disadvantage of -10 franes if the attack was blocked, and a +6 advantage if the attack lands? What does that mean exactly, that I will have 6 frames to react as my opponent is going through an animation because they were hit by my attack?
 

Panther

[09] Warrior
A +6 advantage means you shave off 6 frames for your next attack, in the simplest terms. Your opponent has to wait 6 frames before he can execute an attack. It is interesting because I learned way back when frame data came out in SC2 that it is not the opponent that matters but your execution impact that has 6 frames shaved. No I have no idea why.

If you are -13 on block, it means you have to wait 13 frames before blocking. Thus for 13 frames you are vulnerable to any move that is i13 or less that is done by the opponent if he attacks you during that time (and knows about the frame disadvantage). Since most normal A's are at i10-i13 you can see already how unsafe -13 is, let alone -17 (which usually means free launcher).
 

XenofacT

[08] Mercenary
So if I wanted to improve Viola's offensive capability, I should focus more on moves that create the least amount of negative advantage when blocked, and those that take little time to initialize. Sound about right?
 

Nyagamun

[08] Mercenary
there's something missing from simultaneous 8way run moves

W/O i27 -9 KND
N/O i36 -9 KND
I assume 22_88 A+B?

also:
W/O 22/99AB i20 -10 0
N/O 22/99AB i20 -14 +6
I assume those 9s are supposed to be 8s?

lastly how is N/O B+K BE 55i? has to be faster than that
 
Thread starter #15

Destinizish

Now Sleep Forever
there's something missing from simultaneous 8way run moves

W/O i27 -9 KND
N/O i36 -9 KND
I assume 22_88 A+B?

also:
W/O 22/99AB i20 -10 0
N/O 22/99AB i20 -14 +6
I assume those 9s are supposed to be 8s?

lastly how is N/O B+K BE 55i? has to be faster than that
Fixing it, thanks. And B+K BE depends on orb position, I think, but try using it, it's really slow.
 

Nyagamun

[08] Mercenary
Fixing it, thanks. And B+K BE depends on orb position, I think, but try using it, it's really slow.
I guess they probably use B+K placement as a reference, otherwise it has an active hitbox quicker (or at least on par) than N/O B+K

with a little testing it's definitely not i55...not sure how fast exactly but I set viola to record B+K return, then quickly did B+K BE with orb on top of viola. the BE hit first. also consider I couldn't have possibly done both at the same time so I'd have to guess the BE activates in 25 frames or less
 
Moderator #18

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Alright, so I'm going through the wiki and putting all the frame data I can get my hands on (from the guide) into the wiki. Viola presents a small problem, in that her unorthodox style creates a rather unorthodox looking wiki page. For her page, I was going to seperate her WO and HO states into two separate movelists, similar to Ivy's WP, SW, and CL in SC4. If that works well for you all, then I'll go ahead and do that. If not, let me know what does and I'll do that.

I've also made her page and as it is now, it's just a skeleton, but when you decide on what's easiest, Panther can also edit the page.
 
Alright, so I'm going through the wiki and putting all the frame data I can get my hands on (from the guide) into the wiki. Viola presents a small problem, in that her unorthodox style creates a rather unorthodox looking wiki page. For her page, I was going to seperate her WO and HO states into two separate movelists, similar to Ivy's WP, SW, and CL in SC4. If that works well for you all, then I'll go ahead and do that. If not, let me know what does and I'll do that.

I've also made her page and as it is now, it's just a skeleton, but when you decide on what's easiest, Panther can also edit the page.
Can we please change the notation to VS and VO like in the guidebook?

People are using W/O to mean "With Orb" and now you're using WO to mean "Without Orb" since I'm assuming by HO you mean "Holding Orb." The abbreviation w/o is commonly used for "without" so I'm getting the notations confounded here.

VO = "Viola Orb"
VS = "Viola Set"