VSFighter (20th-22nd July2018) Zasalamel testing

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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
This is going to be my notes for what im testing with Zas at VSFighter in UK next weekend, please comment below any other Zasalamel specific stuff you want me to test.
We also have a discord that we have been discussing this aswell im gonna combine all requests from here and the discord and keep updating both of them.
Here is the link to discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/pstHvt

I will probably use a character like Taki to get a rough idea of how fast and safe Zasalamels moves are.
Nastu from SC5 A (i10), K (i13), 3K (i14), B (i15) and 6B (I16) looks like the same animation for Taki in SC6 so i know that doesnt guarantee the same speed again its gonna be roughly similar at least.


Combos to test:

3B - b:K - 6K
3B - b:K - 66B
3B - b:K - 66A+B
22B - b:K -
22B - 8A+B
66B CH - 8B+K - BT B+K/BT 2K
66B CH - b:K - 6K
66B CH - b:K - 66B
A+B - 3AB
A+B - 66B - into ^combos
A+B LH - 66B+K
66B+K - 8B+K - BT B+K/BT 2K
66B+K - b:K - 6K
66B+K - b:K - 66B
66B+K - b:K - 44B
6B+KA - 6K.

Move properties.
------ A attacks -------

AAA - NCC?
4A - step catching consistency?
66A - what is hit levels?
66A - can 2nd hit be GI'd
aB - Check hit level
6AB - is 6K/2A a combo after 2nd hit CH?
6AB - 2nd hit on air hit?

------ B attacks -------

BBB - NCC? Last hit GI'able on NCC?
4B CH - 3AB tech trap?
WRB - check RO range
WRB - check any additional inputs

----- K attacks -----

4K - CH properties?
4K - any strings?

--- B+K attacks ---
6B+K - force standing when hit crouch?
4B+K - follow up BT B+K hold jail?
WRB+K - post 2K, 1K, 2B.

--- Throws ---
6A+GB - does it RO. - W! -
6A+GA - does it RO. - W! -

find SC4 WRB
try B4/2/6, 236B, 214B, WRA+B?

--- impact frame test ---

AA -
2A -
BB -
b:K -
K -
6K -
3K -
2K -
4K -
4B -
3B -

--- block punish test ---

6AB 2nd blocked -
aB -
66A -
6BB -
6BK -
3B -
4B -
WRB -
66B -
22B -
44B -
44B hold -
6K -
3K -
4K -
66A+B -
44A+B -
2B+K -
66B+K -

--- advantage test --- A-i10,K-i13,3K-i14,B-i15,6B-i16

4A hit -3B beat
66A hit -3B beat
BB hit -3B beat
66B NH -3B beat
6K hit -3b beat
3K hit -3b beat
4K hit -3b beat
A+B blocked - 3b beat
2A+B blocked - 3b beat
B+KB fastest release blocked - 3b beat
SC A+B blocked -3b beat
RE K blocked -3b beat
CE blocked -3b beat


--- Time stop optimals ---
In order of reward: A+B, 66B+K, 66A+B, 3B, 3AB, BB
Test: B+K series.



RE B.
1:
2:
3: A+B

1BB.
1:
2: BB
3: 66A+B/3AB

66A+B blocked.
1.
2.
3.

66A+B hit.
1. BT B+K
2.
3.
 
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Kaz

[09] Warrior
Can you check if
-6A+G breaks with any button, if its 4+button or 6+button. Do both follow ups RO(back and side)?
-Does WrB RO behind and does WrB6/4 exist?
-AAA/BBB Are the 3rd B and A ever garanteed, maybe NCC?
-Does WrK and 4K have follow up strings/buttons?
 

Artilust

[10] Knight
-Test if 2/3 curse into activate time stop enough advantage to do a fully charged pimp hand to re-curse?

-Test if theres a way to sacrifice damage ending a juggle with a pimp hand in order to get a curse on wakeup?

-I'm interested in knowing can you still jail someone with a BT [B+K] on a while rising opponent after a 4B+K

-Can he stay BT after B+K?

-Whats the properties of 6AB now that the second hit is mid on air opponents? Does it set up for anything that puts the opponent grounded at your feet? Maybe try this with several moves, since range 1 looks strong for him having a hard knockdown at your feet seems oppressive.

-Is the 66B_BB_K viable

-Test if airthrow still registers on opponents whos feet have left the ground. Maybe test it on the airborne attacks of Ivy, Maxi, Sophitia, Taki..etc. Also test if it catches special states like wall splat

-ways to get into BT?
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
Hello everyone I have returned from VSF and successfully tested as much as I could. I have gotten round to posting it up, if you ever wanna know the juicy details a little earlier in future join the Zas discord :D

--- The bees knees move ---

So firstly discovered what his SC4 WRB was and its hella good, seems to be a main move of his : 46B and it has a fastest input JF 46:B.

No attack throw, even in soul charge but honestly the properties of the move defo make up for it.

i16, good range, knockdown on NH with forward RO possible.

-16 on block but who cares I think this is a big deal for Zas as it offers block punishment, an effective whiff punisher, and front RO capabilities.

The JF allows it to hit grounded opponents and is a way to end combos.

To top it off it also time stops! 46BB is the input so with using just on curse you could make it safe or pop it on hit which allows for a 66B follow up(better oki) or with 2 curses gets you 66A+B guaranteed into a BT mix up.

whenever a combo has a 46:B ender and there is a curse on the opponent you can do 46:BB to put yourself in a good position.

--- combos ---

So pretty much any launch, so 3B/22B/66B+K/66B CH all combo into b:K - 46B - 46:B/66B.
A+B combos into either 66B launch/6BK stun.
6B+KA - 6K combos and I been using it as a nice whiff punish that leaves a curse on them.
With launchers pretty much have to sacrifice the rest of the combo if I want to land a curse.

--- Move properties ---
AAA - No NCC, can literally still duck third hit if was a CH.
4A - good step catching consistency this time not like SC4.
66A - 2 Mid hits, cant GI second one as jails.
aB - is high.
6AB - NCC and does give 2A/6K on hit. 2nd hit on air hit brings them to his feet.
44A is a mid.
BBB - 3rd hit force block when BB is CH.
4B CH - 3AB doesnt tech all, didnt spent time on if it did others.
WRB - decent RO behind, no additional commands I could find.
4K - RO on CH, no additional strings I could find.
44A+B can LH when catches back step and combos into 8A+B
6B+K - Yes forces standing on hit.
4B+K - Yes BT B+K hold follow up jails. BT BB doesnt combo.
WRB+K - does jump back fast, avoids 2A response after 2K. Didnt spend too much time on this.
Throws - 6A+GB does RO behind, didnt test others but still assume can W!

--- Impact frames ---

i13 - AA/2A/KK/6K
i14 - 4K
i15 - b:K, 3K.
i16 - BB, 46:B, 2K.

--- safety tests ---

6AB 2nd hit - safe
aB - a BTA punished on block.
66A - i13
44A - -16
6BB - safe
6BK - -16
3B - -15
4B - safe
WRB - -13
66B - safe
22B - -16
44B/44(B) - safe
6K - -13
3K - safe
4K - -16
66A+B - badly unsafe
44A+B - -13
2B+K - safe
66B+K - -12 at most


--- advantage tests (approx) ---

4A hit +5
66A hit +8
BB hit +2
66B hit +6
6K hit +3
3K hit +5
A+B blocked +6
2A+B blocked +4
B+KB blocked fastest release +2
SC A+B blocked +8
RE K blocked +5
CE blocked +5

--- Time Stop frames/options ---

1BB hit
1 curse +6
2 curse +16 (BB/46B)
3 curse 3AB/66A+B

1BB blocked
1 curse -12
2 curse safe
3 curse small advantage

66A+BB blocked
1 curse -14
2 curse safe
3 curse +6

 

Wardensc2

[08] Mercenary
As a Zas player I think 3AB should be changed to NCC and unsafe (maybe -12 or -13) to be fair, people will abuse 3AB if it's NC because it's ring out and catch horizon side step.

Any moves have the hold button should be fairly unsafe that why they make hold button to have a safe version or plus frame of the move in exchange for slower speed. People have to mix them up.

For + frame move we have the Soul Crush moves and the orbs. And also some moves need Just Hit when Counter Hit should be include to make the different between newbie Zas and High Level Zas.

We want a fair Zasalamel which need skill to become the best character not an easy to play character with OP moves

PS: For all characters in SC6: Now 8-way runs is smoother than SC5 people will use more and more vertical attack than before so I think any vertical attack should follow the rule:
- Mid + Fast (smaller than i15) should be unsafe or disadvantage on hit or very short range unless you are in some kind of stand
- Fast (smaller than i15) and safe shoud be High Vertical
- Mid + Safe should be slower speed (i18 maybe)
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
As a Zas player I think 3AB should be changed to NCC and unsafe (maybe -12 or -13) to be fair, people will abuse 3AB if it's NC because it's ring out and catch horizon side step.

Any moves have the hold button should be fairly unsafe that why they make hold button to have a safe version or plus frame of the move in exchange for slower speed. People have to mix them up.

For + frame move we have the Soul Crush moves and the orbs. And also some moves need Just Hit when Counter Hit should be include to make the different between newbie Zas and High Level Zas.

We want a fair Zasalamel which need skill to become the best character not an easy to play character with OP moves
3AB is defo unsafe I think -16, if used at the edge and blocked I'm at risk to be rung out myself.
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
Can you guys point me to a youtube clip/timestamp where a 3 orb time stop is used effectively?
I was able to use time stop with 2 curses to use 1BB at the edge and ring out with 46B. Also used the time stop at the end of my 22B combo (46:BB) to get better oki.

Just unfortunately vs players that wasn't able to get any recordings against.

I mean with 3 orbs the situations you could use them is:

Guessing right on RE B and landing A+B - 66B - b:K - 46B - 66B/46:B.

1BB when opponent guesses wrong you could 46B ring out or 3AB reverse ring out but at most you get mid screen is like 66A+B from what I found anyway.

66A+B with 3 feels like a waste not in combos because if blocked +6, seems better in combos.

46BB into it seems a way to get a plus on block mid that can get you damage on hit.
 

thenewperson

Fighter
I hope Zas gets an extra option during training where the opponent can have a fixed amount of curses.
Been hoping for character specific training options myself, though I'm guessing it's pretty impractical. But it'd be nice to be able to set Zas' curses, Tira's GS/JS, Setsuka's aGI levels, etc.
 

Wardensc2

[08] Mercenary
3AB is defo unsafe I think -16, if used at the edge and blocked I'm at risk to be rung out myself.
In that case it's OK for 3AB NC but Reverse Ring Out should be NCC. 3AB NC should reverse the position only not Ring Out.

-16 isn't disadvantage enough for strong forward ring out move well maybe those Sisters only.

And thank for your research and video
 

Wardensc2

[08] Mercenary
In that case it's OK for 3AB NC but Reverse Ring Out should be NCC. 3AB NC should reverse the position only not Ring Out.

-16 isn't disadvantage enough for strong forward ring out move well maybe those Sisters only.

And thank for your research and video
On second though after watching more video of other characters and seeing how strong they are -16 is ok.

Sorry :P
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
On second though after watching more video of other characters and seeing how strong they are -16 is ok.

Sorry :P
If used at the wrong spacing vs Xianghua she could 4K RO punish, heck in a Zas mirror he could 46B punish.
 

Kaz

[09] Warrior
Its sucks that he doesnt get AT but im glad that zas has a good fwd RO option in 46:B. Hopefully it TC, then it will be a damn good pressure tool at the edge. I didnt expect him to lose the tech trap after ch 4b with 3BA. Wonder if we can use something else and get a similar trap, maybe 66B+K(the upper cut with the scythe)?
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
Its sucks that he doesnt get AT but im glad that zas has a good fwd RO option in 46:B. Hopefully it TC, then it will be a damn good pressure tool at the edge. I didnt expect him to lose the tech trap after ch 4b with 3BA. Wonder if we can use something else and get a similar trap, maybe 66B+K(the upper cut with the scythe)?
I think it did have some TC frames
 
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