Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
He had to have his little sister Pyrrha save him from Nightmare, and he lost to Z.W.E.I. - twice no less. I don't think he'd stand a chance against Taki.
Who would win: Pit two characters who never fought in canon in battle.
- Thread starter HydroJames
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HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
We're looking at Pat at his peak condition. He may lost to him twice, but he finally beat Z.W.E.I. when he went aPat.
Party Wolf
Administrator
But he beat Pyrrha though (twice), the same person who killed ZWEI, who is the person who killed Nightmare. TRANSITIVE PROPERTY HOMIE.
Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
Except he couldn't beat Nightmare, he had to have Pyrrha save him. I honestly do not see him beating Taki. I would love SCVI to prove this.
Party Wolf
Administrator
That wasn't in his Alpha form though
Xyerith
SPHERECUCK
Goku would beat Superman
darkwings13
[14] Master
Hmmmm... we don't know how hard Taki's been training for the past seventeen years so we can't actually estimate her current power level. She's always been one of the best fighters considering how she defeated Ivy, Cervy Beards, and has lots of experience fighting demons though. And can someone confirm that she's always been stalking Mitsu??? Thanks.
A.Pat defeated Elysium, the incarnation of Soul Calibur itself that has been restored to pretty much 100% power. But he was using SC to fight SC (makes no sense really) so I'd say we're not sure on how good he is now that he doesn't have it. If we pit him against a supposedly still strong, flexible and experienced ninja, Pat is probably going to lose. He may have inherited Setsuka's fighting style, but the amount of practice he's had with it and if he's even reached her level is questionable. Not only did he shy from using it, but when he did use it he was overpowered cuz he had one of the strongest sword in the world in his hand.
A.Pat defeated Elysium, the incarnation of Soul Calibur itself that has been restored to pretty much 100% power. But he was using SC to fight SC (makes no sense really) so I'd say we're not sure on how good he is now that he doesn't have it. If we pit him against a supposedly still strong, flexible and experienced ninja, Pat is probably going to lose. He may have inherited Setsuka's fighting style, but the amount of practice he's had with it and if he's even reached her level is questionable. Not only did he shy from using it, but when he did use it he was overpowered cuz he had one of the strongest sword in the world in his hand.
Pyrrha just walked up and stabbed Zwei in the back after he's probably only standing on sheer willpower alone after taking down Nighty. Can't really judge her strength with that.
HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
Well Siegfried did fight and defeat Inferno with Soul Edge. Both Pat and Sieg's battles represent a struggle in which their respective spirit swords are trying to take over their mind.
HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
Well...
- Ivy herself has a pretty shoddy record, losing more battles than she wins.
- She defeated Cervantes with the help of Sophitia, who had weakened him by shattering one of his swords, which was the female half of Soul Edge. Taking him down was a 2-woman effort.
- Were any of the demons she faced anywhere near as destructive as a crazy, super-powered host of Soul Edge and the fully powered spirit of Soul Calibur?
- Did she fight and defeat Mitsurugi?
Sett
[14] Master
Alpha would destroy Taki.
ZER0
[13] Hero
Taki has boobs...and has had outfits designed by a hentai artists...he clearly has the upper hand
darkwings13
[14] Master
All of Pat's main victories came at the hand of Soul Calibur. He only ever beat Voldo (dude is nearly 80 something), Siggy (who probably like Zwei, just wanted to test his profiency) and a bunch of peasant rebels. With Asta he might not have been using his true style but he still had SC. Taki not only has years of experience she has sealing abilities. The scv book mentioned that A.pat himself was slightly malfested so she would have an upper hand in battle to even seal or damage him. Pat was able to fight back against Elysium with pyrrha trying to free him from that crystal prison. Again his successes are very dependent on another party's aid.
If he is A.pat with sc, he will most likely win. Without the ultimate sword, a 19 year old who actually hasnt practiced with his real fighting style till recently vs someone (46yrs old) with a wide variety of knowledge, battle experience (like sealing Natsu demon and her master), and techniques, I dont see how he can win. Unless taki was suffering from arthritis or something.
-she battled Mitsu in Soul Blade according to that game book and they are rivals. Dont know who won or if it was a tie.
HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
What advantages does wielding Soul Calibur give him.
Even with more experience, it is still possible for her to lose. While she a more seasoned veteran, she hasn't achieved the feats that are on the level with Pat.
At 46 years old, Taki would be out of her prime and wouldn't perform as well as her younger self.
Even if she was at her prime, she still hasn't achieved feats on the level that Pat, leaving me with doubt that she would beat him.
And has she trained at any point between IV and V?
Steven_a
The Alpha
Guts vs Nightmare.
darkwings13
[14] Master
Soul Edge has been stated time and time again throughout history that it's the ultimate weapon and that whoever wields it will become unimaginably strong. That's why there's always a trail of blood tracing it throughout the ages. One can imagine that the sword would not only be one of the hardest and sharpest weapon of all time, but it would also bestow upon its wielder powers. Such as Siegfried becoming super strong and wiping out entire places, Algol managed to rule the world with the sword, or Dumas becoming legendary on the battlefield. Even the malfested became stronger just from being tainted with its powers. As SC is not only created from SE and created to counter it, it should also be able to bestow upon its wielder the same fighting benefits. If SC can freeze over the world and considered one of the ultimate weapons, it's also almost ridiculous not to assume that it would boost up its wielder fighting capabilities. Pat having that sword is like a dude wielding a light saber right now. His wounds could be healing faster, his strikes harder and faster, etc.
I kinda doubt Taki would twiddle with her fingers for the past 17 years and not do any training. Patroklos never achieved any great feat (without SC) besides defeating his sister. As the both of them were super buffed up by wielding SC and SE, we can assume that their powers dropped way down now that the swords are gone. And if Pat's battle with Elysium was on some whole different spiritual level where he uses SC to fight SC, (since his current body is frozen in ice), then this is simply a battle of will power and not actual skill itself. His mind may have been strong enough to resist the second time around and that's why he can regain control over the sword (also thanks to his sister breaking him out of that ice box).
To summarize. Pat is skilled with Set's style but it's rusty from lack of use since he's been trying to stick with the sword and shield for so long. Without a legendary weapon in hand, he's at a severe disadvantage if Taki attacks him at perfectly good health and prime body since she has triple the experience he has, probably faced more battles than he did (human and demon wise), knows a bunch of sealing techniques that might cause him discomfort as he's malfested, etc. If she doesn't even feel like fighting one on one or fairly, she has a whole village of ninjas, and probably knows more than fifty ways to assassinate someone with stealth. However, if she let old age catch up to her, or A.Pat still has SC, she'd lose.
Draggonnfs
[12] Conqueror
Well, I don't think he would destroy her. If Taki was as powerful as we last saw her in SCIV, he would have a pretty good chance of winning, I agree. But who knows what Taki did for those 17 years? Possibly she got even more powerful, which would make the battle quite even and interesting, or she could lose power, if she only trained others (Natsu), then aPat would probably kick her ass. Which sucks, because Taki was my SCIV main, but I know it's the truth...
Soul
Valide Kösem Sultan
All we know is that she went on a mission to the west and has taken much longer than she said she would.
She might have encountered Toki:
Now that would've been an epic fight to see.
She might have encountered Toki:
Now that would've been an epic fight to see.
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HydroJames
Shining Sea Dragon
There is no evidence as to how much weaker Pat would be without Soul Calibur. For all I know, he could be just as fast without it.
There is no evidence that Taki brushed up her own skills since IV.
I don't think Pat showed any signs of being out of practice when he started using Setsuka's style again.
Alex.J
[14] Master
To think since Soul Edge is a fearsome weapon it must = strongest/sharpest. Is only an assumption. And even before Soul Calibur people were able to beat the wielder of the Soul Edge. So if the Soul Edge could be defeated, Soul Calibur would be under similar scrutiny. The only difference is that Soul Calibur is the weapon of "purity & justice". So story wise, there is never a real reason for anyone other than malfested or the Soul Edge weilder to fight it.
I think to say Pat is rusty and can't wield a single sword is an assumption. Not only was he using a sword to begin with. But the dudes been going around murdering everyone he could get his hands on the battlefield. We might as well make another assumption he trained to be that skilled. And during his training, he trained how to use the sword multiple ways. Therefore when he switched styles, there were little to no growing pains. And since Pat went around slaughtering a whole countryside. There is a good chance he fought more battles than Taki, just way more condensed in a shorter time frame.
darkwings13
[14] Master
Legend and accomplishments from those who wield SE, especially with Algol managing to rule over the entire world because of that sword, points to it giving its wielders otherworldly powers. Such as Cervantes beoming a super powerful undead pirate that terrorized the world. SC is a direct fragment of SE that now only gains the ability to counter it. It's an assumption backed by countless evidence that wielding either of the two legendary swords would most certainly grant you benefits.
It's also something we've seen before. Sophie learned how to fight since Hephateus gave her holy weapons. Same thing with Pyrrha. These two never had any fighting experience in their lives before and now they're trampling over everyone. Heph knows there's no way Soph would stand a chance against SE without it. SC would also be in the same category.
There's no evidence Taki didn't train either. As one of the most experienced ninja of the clan, she most likely went on to seal more demons than just Natsu. Even in SCV she's missing because she journeyed somewhere like usual, but this time hasn't returned from her mission. She doesn't sit and laze around.
Rothion perished when Pat was 15 and gave him the sword and shield before telling him his mother was killed by a malfested and his sister was kidnapped by the same person. That and Dumas started his malfested hunts in 1601. Right now it's 1607 and he's 19. Earliest he can join is 1603, which is when his dad died and told him about it. We then have 1-4 years of not using Set's style. Anyone would be rusty. That aside, we've never seen him fight with her style without SC, which I've stated time and time again, is a handicap booster.
Not an assumption. See above with Cervantes's example. Dude became a terror when he got it and he only became more powerful the more souls he consumed. Same with Siggy. With SE growing stronger, SC also grows stronger as well due to the holy tribe making this stupid cycle that supposedly never ends. Storywise, no one can use it unless SC chooses them. Siggy couldn't use it anymore even though he had the sword in his possession for 17 years.
Edit: I can't think of anyone who beat SE without SC. Even if they did, the sword probably didn't recover all of its fragment and was weak.
Pat isn't exactly rusty. He's trained under multiple masters and won some tournament thing at age 15. Also one of Set's brightest student. But we can't know that if he didn't have SC, would he have been able to do so well transitioning back? That's why I keep saying A.Pat will definitely win with SC.
Pat was in an army. He didn't charge in by himself and killed an entire city of rebels. Unless Dumas was randomly short on soldiers for some reason. The entire malfested hunt was why Pat joined in the first place. He most likely just raided cities and killed helpless civilians under Dumas's hunt. We've seen that twice in story mode where Pat kills people who can't fight back and just beg for their lives.
Also, Dumas's hunt officially started in 1601-1607. He couldn't have joined earlier than 15. Meaning at most he was only in the army for 4 years and the other years was to train. Compared to Taki who's 46, she would have wayyyyyyyyyyy more experience.