Worst Matchups for Cassandra

Belial :

I actually don't agree at all here. IMO you are underestimating way too much cass.

Con:
Poor wake up
No fast FC moves (i.e. poorly handles blocked 3B from Amy)
Poor risk reward on basic mixup
Amy has great step
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Poor wake up? Cass has actually a very good wake up game. You end up being pressured by 33K and or getting relaunched by 33B and/or teching into 4BBA and/or you raise and you end up getting pressured by her very good throws... I don't really know what you need more ...

No fast FC moves? And wtf about blocked 3B from Amy? Cass 3B can be punished -16 (or more) there is no need for fast FC move... I don't understand here.
Or perhaps you are speaking about Amy making 3B and Cass blocking? Why does it need to have a fast FC move...
Btw, since when did you need fast FC moves against Amy? Good TC moves ok but fast TC?
And Cassy has strong moves from FC : 236B/, FC 1B, FC 3B, FC 2A, FC 2K, 4BBA, ...
 
Maxou: I was refering to Amy using 3B and Cass blocking it. You need to use some kind of progressive defence here, to force a mix up on her including fast mid and throw for ex, otherwise you will fall to a 3B_3BA variations.
 
haha we all know that 3B / 3BA is far from the best weapon Amy has ;)

GI / jump move / block is enough ... at least I always thought so.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
It's really not that simple, and Ivy still has tools to space Cassy out even when she does manage to get close. Not only that - it's not like Cassy wants to stay super close anyway - more on that in a sec. Moreover, you're going to be taking alot of SG damage on the way in, and if Ivy anticipates your movement she can switch to SW and then you have a whole bunch of crap to deal with.

Your best bet is to bait Ivy into switching to SW stance and then you abuse Cassy's broken backdash and whiff punish for 64+dmg each time. Don't believe me? Check out the range and tracking issues on some of her best SW pokes. She really needs to be in 2A range to have a decent step killer and her backdash killers are lacking in general. The only way I can really deal with backdashers in SW state is to anticipate it and start backdashing myself and either whiff punish with 3B+K if they are stupid about it(not whiff punishing on reaction), or switch to CL stance if they are smart about it. This resets the whole process and now you have to worry about getting in again. In case you haven't noticed, Ivy's spacing is clunky because of the stance cooldowns, and she has to be two steps ahead of how you are going to space and move to properly control the match.
Just worry about out-chipping Ivy and being tricky about your movement. Ivy usually can't make a huge comeback outside of CS/SS, so just learn to predict and break those. I just thought you were oversimplifying the matchup.
Also, kinda off topic, but I think the best way to deal with Ivy is to pick a character who can take advantage of her clunky stance transitioning. This means you have good gap closers that deal good damage and you have pretty decent ways to deal with SW stance.
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ya I'm sure ur right Noface, I just simplified it like that cause I have heavy experience against sc3 Ivy and next to no experience against her in sc4, so I wasn't thinkin about the whole CF game aspect and tryin to backstep her all day (can't do that in sc3, lol, u have to jump her all day dependin on who ur playin). Anyway, even with what you said, I don't think it's a bad matchup for Cass, maybe 5:5. What do u think it is? also, Ivy BB gives advantage huh? u were beating my stuff out after online, I had felt it was disadvantage before.

Also, I said Amy is a bad matchup for Cassandra, but I still think Cassandra handles her better than like 90% of the cast, I just think Amy is a bad matchup for damn near everybody.
 
"no experience against her in sc4"

so you admit you have no idea about how it is to play Cassandra against Ivy in Soul Calibur 4
then still give an incorrect opinion on the matchup.
oh and by the way WP 3A is unsafe. guess you didn't know it either.

please, please, continue to feed us with random stuff !


about 3B vs jump move : yeah it's OK to jump it limits some options and gives others, as Amy you can definitely have fun. vs some experienced players who like to do 9K on my 3BA, I purposely let them do it, then do 3B~step~33B or or 3B~B+K for over 50 free dmg + wakeup. it works vs anybody I've played up to now.
 
i never said I didn't know whip 3A was unsafe. what I said for the most part still applies to sc4 Ivy, her biggest difference now is she can't spam 2A or 44B. Also can't spam that bullshit 66[K]. She's weaker at close range so it's easier to fight against her in sc4, I guess minus the CF ability. My first time fighting against Ivy in sc4:
I also beat Linkrkc I think 3 rounds straight, using Cassandra (but we only played one match, doesn't say anything about the matchup, just says my opinion is valid).
 
I am more with Belial on Amy vs Cass, though I don't think Amy outclasses Cass in terms of damage. Also, Amy gets massive RO distance on her 33B and B+K aGI combo while Cass has good forward and reverse RO tools ...not sure who wins here

IMO, one underrated Cass tool vs Amy is 1A hahaha. Sure it's slow and unsafe but 1A is decent against a lot of Amy's options on disadvantage (B+K, 44B, 6BB, step~33B) ... if Cass can get Amy to block on disadvantage, then Amy loses.
 
"IMO, one underrated Cass tool vs Amy is 1A hahaha. Sure it's slow and unsafe but 1A is decent against a lot of Amy's options on disadvantage (B+K, 44B, 6BB, step~33B) ... if Cass can get Amy to block on disadvantage, then Amy loses."

damn, that's a good point, and Amy can't really punish that shit hard anyway, unless she can get a 6:6B out of it.
 
Cassy wins in terms of RO. Eggmaster actually mastered the multiple 236B jf combo and its RO range is completely insane...

I actually completely agree with you, 1A with cassandra, 2A+K with Ivy, 11A with Setsuka are very good tool against Amy because :
1) it deals high damage
2) She can't punish it correctly making it highly spammable because 1) and ...
3) Those moves are antistep and have good range.
3) Those are heavy TC tools, very good against Amy because of random stuff like 6BB, throws, B+K/A+K
4) It's a low.

You need to take in consideration :
- Cassy have good, slow damaging moves which can destroy B+K use.
- B+K IS a problem. Even with 3A. You can't spam 3A all day long, or only if you wish to be GId... (don't forget it is i15, which is a good thing but a bad thing here)
- she has good step
- 2B+K is weird, and goes under stuff that should it her...
- IIRC I think Eggmaster told me Cassy has an universal answer to your "godlike" 3B/3BA (but I could be wrong)
- you guys focus on only 1 option of Cassy, while she has a lot of stuff to do.

... actually, the player with Amy must be very solid because Amy doesn't have a single stuff against Cassandra, only her basics (which are very strong that's why this match up is even IMO). And yes, I talk of this match up by experience (I am an Amy player as well).
 
Sword lord indeed it doesn't say anything... Doesn't validate anything either.
I won some matches against Malek with Cass, so what ? It just means that at one point, during 3 rounds I made better choices than him. Bad matchup only mean it's harder to win, not impossible.

I agree with Maxou : Cass' ring out game is much stronger than Amy's. She can ring out every direction and further away. Amy still is pretty decent though. Just not as strong on that part of the game. Checkout my post on FR forum about Amy's ring outs : http://www.soulcalibur.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=7493
translation : gauche = left, droite = right, face = front.

A lot of her shennanigans won't work vs Cass but her basic game (much better range, good step, speed, punish, mixup, wakeup) is still very strong. When I say range I mean having a < i20 move that hits far, not slow > i30 stuff Cass has. 33B is godly vs characters that lack in range such as Cass or Yoshi.

1A is good against Amy but it's wrong to say she can't punish it properly.
It's -17 and from FC Amy can punish with i16 move 6:6B 6:6BA for 54dmg (+wakeup)
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
ya I'm sure ur right Noface, I just simplified it like that cause I have heavy experience against sc3 Ivy and next to no experience against her in sc4, so I wasn't thinkin about the whole CF game aspect and tryin to backstep her all day (can't do that in sc3, lol, u have to jump her all day dependin on who ur playin). Anyway, even with what you said, I don't think it's a bad matchup for Cass, maybe 5:5. What do u think it is? also, Ivy BB gives advantage huh? u were beating my stuff out after online, I had felt it was disadvantage before.

Also, I said Amy is a bad matchup for Cassandra, but I still think Cassandra handles her better than like 90% of the cast, I just think Amy is a bad matchup for damn near everybody.
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I was using CL 1B,B+K which does give adv on hit.
 
No, while Cass have a good RO , Amy's better.

Back RO. Amy RO to the back with 44A+B (cass cant punish) and B-throw. Cass only with 44B (Amy can punish on guard). Now if Amy steps Cass 44B(no tracking) its guaranteed RO. If Cass steps 44A+B (tracks right) Amy is realigned due to step forward, you might miss RO. Though those are insignificant, significant are:
Front RO
She can Ro you front from sidestep, aGI, low and variety of mids including punishment.
If you're back to a ring edge vs Amy any incorrect guess will result in RO, even if you block something, you are still not safe to atack b/c you risk being RO'ed from her reverse mix.
Yes Cass has great RO distance but how many opportunities to apply it. The only real RO' possibilities may come from 2B+K CH, punishment or aGI, all that are defencive options, meaning you will get less chances to apply it at the right time, especially since it will be readable, where Amy simply has all that RO options built in her basic offence.
 
About Cassandra's RO :
Just Check at this thread : http://www.8wayrun.com/f25/cass-ring-out-game-t1777/
She has some good stuffs to put out of the ring.
On a simple punishment, with 236:, Cass can RO on insane distances. Amy is pretty safe (excepted on her lows), but she can be whiff punished (step, backdash, duck, jump etc...)
Besides, after 236, it's possible to step to adjust the ring out. It can be helpuf.

Cass can punish well Amy's 2B+K, that's right, but it's so hard ! 2B+K is very fast, and it's only -16 on block. So you have to be very reactive to have a chance to punish correctly with 236 (i16).

Cass has a good step : Hell yeah ! Amy's 33B tracks on her weak side : Damn f*ck ! 33B is safe, it's a pain in the ass for Cass !

Maxou : Actually, I find nothing at all to stop the 3BA, so I don't think I told something like that before aha.

Amy hits more, Cass hits better. So is well balanced I guess.
 
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