BelovedChild
[09] Warrior
Okay, after THAT STEREOTYPE
would you like to play? I'll be on tonight
PSN is obvious
would you like to play? I'll be on tonight
PSN is obvious
Yoshi versus....
- Thread starter HajimeOwari
- Start date
TsunamiBye
[14] Master
The sisters, Siegfried, and Astaroth gives me pain. I need to know what to do when being pressured.
I got as much defense as everyone else but, I get shutdown very easily.
I got as much defense as everyone else but, I get shutdown very easily.
- Thread starter
- #43
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Anti-Siegfried: Punish every single 3{B} and WS{B} with AA. Abuse 214A at close range. It steps and TCs a good portion of his move set. If he's spacing you, either wait for him to whiff and punish with 4KB_66A+B_etc. or close distance with a well timed stomp (9B+K) or 9A+B. Sieg has plenty of unsafe moves. Punish as often as possible. He's fairly steppable. Abuse that. If he starts whoring out a
a or other step-killers, use TC moves to counter like 214A, 11A (TCs in the beginning), and 44B+K (from mid range). Because of the way Sieg spaces, tip range iFC 3K is incredibly useful in this match.
Anti-Astaroth: If he's spacing you, 9A+B and proper stepping can get you inside all day. 66A+B is your primary whiff punisher from max distance. Punish Asta's 6K with AA. Punish ihs 1B with 6K2K if it's being abused. There's no reason to ever try and break A against his throws except after he tries to 2B+K, A+G you off the ground. Asta's 66[K], 66K_etc. is not a frame trap. You can iMCF after 66[K] and stop just about everything but his jumping crouch throws. 3AB (hit check the 3A to avoid unnecessary risk) is a good answer as well.
Got any more details on how you're being pressured in these matches?
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New Anti-Kilik tech: After blocking the second hit of Asura, 2K will hit, whether they finish Asura or not. For some reason, 2K manages to evade the 3rd hit.
a or other step-killers, use TC moves to counter like 214A, 11A (TCs in the beginning), and 44B+K (from mid range). Because of the way Sieg spaces, tip range iFC 3K is incredibly useful in this match.Anti-Astaroth: If he's spacing you, 9A+B and proper stepping can get you inside all day. 66A+B is your primary whiff punisher from max distance. Punish Asta's 6K with AA. Punish ihs 1B with 6K2K if it's being abused. There's no reason to ever try and break A against his throws except after he tries to 2B+K, A+G you off the ground. Asta's 66[K], 66K_etc. is not a frame trap. You can iMCF after 66[K] and stop just about everything but his jumping crouch throws. 3AB (hit check the 3A to avoid unnecessary risk) is a good answer as well.
Got any more details on how you're being pressured in these matches?
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New Anti-Kilik tech: After blocking the second hit of Asura, 2K will hit, whether they finish Asura or not. For some reason, 2K manages to evade the 3rd hit.
TsunamiBye
[14] Master
Thank you for the tips.Anti-Siegfried: Punish every single 3{B} and WS{B} with AA. Abuse 214A at close range. It steps and TCs a good portion of his move set. If he's spacing you, either wait for him to whiff and punish with 4KB_66A+B_etc. or close distance with a well timed stomp (9B+K) or 9A+B. Sieg has plenty of unsafe moves. Punish as often as possible. He's fairly steppable. Abuse that. If he starts whoring out a
Anti-Astaroth: If he's spacing you, 9A+B and proper stepping can get you inside all day. 66A+B is your primary whiff punisher from max distance. Punish Asta's 6K with AA. Punish ihs 1B with 6K2K if it's being abused. There's no reason to ever try and break A against his throws except after he tries to 2B+K, A+G you off the ground. Asta's 66[K], 66K_etc. is not a frame trap. You can iMCF after 66[K] and stop just about everything but his jumping crouch throws. 3AB (hit check the 3A to avoid unnecessary risk) is a good answer as well.
Got any more details on how you're being pressured in these matches?
I think the 236B, 1A, and some other moves. I forget which ones from Cassandra.
Sweeps and stabs from Sophitia. I can defend against those but, I'm terrified from 66B I think.
Please don't flame me >.<.
- Thread starter
- #45
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
236B is punishable by 6K2K or 3B. 1A is only punishable by FC 1KKK on block or you can just block and get a free FC 3K / 4KB mix-up. If you're really on the ball, start going into FLE or DGF against it on sight. Cassie doesn't have any scary lows, so there's no reason to twitch duck. If you're getting thrown often, B is the button you want to break with except when Cassie has you near the edge. She can RO with the A throw (I don't recall which direction. She has to have you right on the edge, though). Yoshi lacks a definite answer to avoid the 33K mix-ups, so it's better to just wait it out.
Check the punishment thread for more ways to punish Cassie. Also, step the hell out of her.
Step 66B and all her other terribly linear attacks. Then pressure the hell out of her post-step. I believe Yoshi has the advantage in this match, because he just needs to step one thing to get inside with 33B B+K and then he can maintain constant pressure after that. It's a pretty straight-forward match, imo. The one time you can't step 66B is when she has you grounded. Just block it and move on.
Anti-Cassie:
- Thread starter
- #46
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
I'll likely start editing the first post with char. specific strats that have been posted earlier. That way we'll get a summary going.
New anti-Kilik tech: After blocking the first two hits of Asura, you can 2K. You either punish weakly with 2K or somehow dodge the third hit and hit with 2K. That's right. A guaranteed anti-Asura. Or, you could just wait and punish the 2nd hit on block with something quick (AA) and/or wait for the 3rd hit to 6K2K / 3B.
New anti-Kilik tech: After blocking the first two hits of Asura, you can 2K. You either punish weakly with 2K or somehow dodge the third hit and hit with 2K. That's right. A guaranteed anti-Asura. Or, you could just wait and punish the 2nd hit on block with something quick (AA) and/or wait for the 3rd hit to 6K2K / 3B.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
I think u can warp between hits of asura and get BT throw. Have to recheck.
- Thread starter
- #48
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
You cannot. Asura tracks slightly to Kilik's left. Yoshi warps to Kilik's left. =/ I would have posted that in the evasion thread if it was possible.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
hmm...somehow i feel as if Yoshi can counter AD really hard, i just need to find it. BRB.
LemonySnicket
[08] Mercenary
Yoshi Match-up Chart
6/4 siggy??? do you have any suggestions for beating siggys with yoshi cause i have a lot of trouble using yoshi on siggys
HajimeOwari said:
6/4 siggy??? do you have any suggestions for beating siggys with yoshi cause i have a lot of trouble using yoshi on siggys
- Thread starter
- #51
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Yoshi Match-up Chart
Moved your post to this forum to avoid cluttering the matchup thread.
- Punish 3{B} and WS {B} with AA.
- Learn all the unsafe crap you can punish, like Sieg's WS AA.
- Familiarize yourself with his stances, the options from those stances, and their weaknesses. The only stance you need to fear, imo, is the one that creates a 50/50. Pretty sure it's SRSH B_K.
- Whore 214A at close range. It steps and TCs a good portion of Sieg's moveset.
- Consider using 9B+K and 9A+Bg at Sieg's max distance if you think he's going to try and kill your step.
That's all I can think of for now.
Moved your post to this forum to avoid cluttering the matchup thread.
- Punish 3{B} and WS {B} with AA.
- Learn all the unsafe crap you can punish, like Sieg's WS AA.
- Familiarize yourself with his stances, the options from those stances, and their weaknesses. The only stance you need to fear, imo, is the one that creates a 50/50. Pretty sure it's SRSH B_K.
- Whore 214A at close range. It steps and TCs a good portion of Sieg's moveset.
- Consider using 9B+K and 9A+Bg at Sieg's max distance if you think he's going to try and kill your step.
That's all I can think of for now.
Suffer
[08] Mercenary
I have a problem with Mitsi. A friend of mine mains him and we have just played each other too often so he knows all my weaknesses and can predict the way I play. Lolo has called it 7/3 Yoshi favor, but that's a safe Yoshi, which I must not know how to play.
Things that always catch me:
Mitsi has a version of Yoshi's 44bB that has a stun, into a quick mid punch that also stuns, to an overhead chop that drops Yoshi to the floor then a swing that spaces me back away. I spend most of the time getting in on him, only to eat a stun fist to the face almost every time. The quick high keeps me from advancing, if I get in, I get the mid punch. He has gone an entire three rounds with just that combo and I can't figure a way to counter it consistently. All my sweeps are really predictable, slow, and blockable. All other moves are too slow or far too unsafe. I also can't sleep on Mitsi because nearly all his lows still hit on downed opponents.
Other matches I have too much to worry about. His ring out game seems to be far superior to Yoshi's. Most of the time, my friend can back to an edge and wait for me to do something unsafe or wiff, just to launch me and do the in-air sword pull that rings out. He can also pressure me into a side, then grab launch me over the side (partially because I'm pretty terrible at grab breaking) or do the mid punch to attack throw that slap shots me off the edge of the ring.
When he actually does play, I spend most of my time guarding, waiting for a break between attack chains where I know I can get a move in. His unsheathe from Relic to Mist is faster than any move I have and only occasionally does the 214A actually sidestep it. I usually DNK him after the switch to break it but he can catch me or if he sits and waits on me, his auto-GI counter hit is usually quick enough to catch anything besides B, B. I can guard or GI his 2KB consistently except off of his GI. (That was easy! For anyone who knows about that.)
Unless I'm literally supposed to pick at his health with A A, B B the entire match, I can't find a reasonable way to fight against Mitsi without wanting to choke my friend to death in aggravation.
Things that always catch me:
Mitsi has a version of Yoshi's 44bB that has a stun, into a quick mid punch that also stuns, to an overhead chop that drops Yoshi to the floor then a swing that spaces me back away. I spend most of the time getting in on him, only to eat a stun fist to the face almost every time. The quick high keeps me from advancing, if I get in, I get the mid punch. He has gone an entire three rounds with just that combo and I can't figure a way to counter it consistently. All my sweeps are really predictable, slow, and blockable. All other moves are too slow or far too unsafe. I also can't sleep on Mitsi because nearly all his lows still hit on downed opponents.
Other matches I have too much to worry about. His ring out game seems to be far superior to Yoshi's. Most of the time, my friend can back to an edge and wait for me to do something unsafe or wiff, just to launch me and do the in-air sword pull that rings out. He can also pressure me into a side, then grab launch me over the side (partially because I'm pretty terrible at grab breaking) or do the mid punch to attack throw that slap shots me off the edge of the ring.
When he actually does play, I spend most of my time guarding, waiting for a break between attack chains where I know I can get a move in. His unsheathe from Relic to Mist is faster than any move I have and only occasionally does the 214A actually sidestep it. I usually DNK him after the switch to break it but he can catch me or if he sits and waits on me, his auto-GI counter hit is usually quick enough to catch anything besides B, B. I can guard or GI his 2KB consistently except off of his GI. (That was easy! For anyone who knows about that.)
Unless I'm literally supposed to pick at his health with A A, B B the entire match, I can't find a reasonable way to fight against Mitsi without wanting to choke my friend to death in aggravation.
pistolpete1980
[08] Mercenary
ivy is my wosrt match up all around i hate her Grrrrrrr BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!
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N e way dude me and you both like the same three chars
kool
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N e way dude me and you both like the same three chars
kool
LemonySnicket
[08] Mercenary
this is gonna sound crzy but ivy gives my yoshi so much trouble that i do better with rock against her lol. yes my alt char is rock...
IcyBlueCrysis
[08] Mercenary
Ivy is harsh due to her range, the only thing I can do is really do mix ups on stance and 3K's, I advise you to always step and jump her lows, if you do jump her lows throws are nearly guaranteed, or 6k2k or even a 3B
- Thread starter
- #56
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
It really depends on what kind of Ivy you play against. Many of her moves in WP and CL are highly punishable. SW not so much.
Yoshimitsu Web Theater.
Hey I was just wondering... You guys do know that RLC A is a special mid, that can be guarded low?
Well, you all probably know this, but I'll still write it down:
Basically, the answer to RLC is to guard low and respond, the only threat when you're at FC is RLC B.
You guard low even against RLC UB since the first release is a (pretty slow) high.
RLC B isn't easy to see but it isn't impossible at all, and Yoshi can punish it hard.
And by the way, when you guard RLC [K] (upclose), just do FC2K, it is a universal interrupt that cut off all other options. Don't get greedy if you want to stop the mix-up (throws can be ducked, mids can be auto-GIed, slow lows can be interrupted, etc.)
More advanced stuff:
If RLC [K] is guarded at max range, it makes it unpnishable (at least 100%). But then you can always back step into a ranged high/low move if you have that. Don't forget Mitsu's stances, while being (IMO) the best in the cast, are still very risky.
About RLC Auto-GI baits or RLC at MAX range, you can throw the Mitsu player off with some k:G, or even some real false noise with your stick/pad that will sometimes make the Mitsu player do the auto-GI instincively. Alternating very slow moves with fast moves will also make it more difficult.
Oh and any RLC > MST transition should be interrupted with a 2A on reaction, just like Nightmare's GS transitions. It is not easy to apply in game but it can become a reflex if you play a lot against Mitsu.
Yoshi not having some kind of 44B (I mean by that a move with an instant backstep or backdash in it) is a real pain against RLC.
RELIC is still a great stance, but there are answers against it. Just like MIST. And you have to know them because Belial's Mitsu is quite popular and stance play is becoming a trendy stuff.
Hey I was just wondering... You guys do know that RLC A is a special mid, that can be guarded low?
Well, you all probably know this, but I'll still write it down:
Basically, the answer to RLC is to guard low and respond, the only threat when you're at FC is RLC B.
You guard low even against RLC UB since the first release is a (pretty slow) high.
RLC B isn't easy to see but it isn't impossible at all, and Yoshi can punish it hard.
And by the way, when you guard RLC [K] (upclose), just do FC2K, it is a universal interrupt that cut off all other options. Don't get greedy if you want to stop the mix-up (throws can be ducked, mids can be auto-GIed, slow lows can be interrupted, etc.)
More advanced stuff:
If RLC [K] is guarded at max range, it makes it unpnishable (at least 100%). But then you can always back step into a ranged high/low move if you have that. Don't forget Mitsu's stances, while being (IMO) the best in the cast, are still very risky.
About RLC Auto-GI baits or RLC at MAX range, you can throw the Mitsu player off with some k:G, or even some real false noise with your stick/pad that will sometimes make the Mitsu player do the auto-GI instincively. Alternating very slow moves with fast moves will also make it more difficult.
Oh and any RLC > MST transition should be interrupted with a 2A on reaction, just like Nightmare's GS transitions. It is not easy to apply in game but it can become a reflex if you play a lot against Mitsu.
Yoshi not having some kind of 44B (I mean by that a move with an instant backstep or backdash in it) is a real pain against RLC.
RELIC is still a great stance, but there are answers against it. Just like MIST. And you have to know them because Belial's Mitsu is quite popular and stance play is becoming a trendy stuff.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Yoshimitsu Web Theater.
Just a few things i'll mention. SO long i haven't popped in Yoshi forums
DGF B is whoreable...if your opponent is reflexively good at flinch ducking. If they're flinch ducking, then they're not stepping and hence DGF B tears gauge and has great bs as everyone SHOULD know by now. Personally i use DGF A and B and DGF cancel a lot as my mix. DGF K is almost 5% of my mixups, i find DGF A comes as my 'low' cuz they are tempted to duck it. I love me some DGF A.
Countering MST with Yoshi is decent on paper, but QUITE problematic in actual play...why? cuz of one simple matter....RANGE. It is difficult and inconsistent to counter it effectively, cuz depending on at what distance he uses it, and it varies a LOT in actual play. I can't help but feel the responses Mitsu makes a far stronger than my possible counters.
If i'm close i usuallly find 6A one of the most reliable ways to counter ALL options (except RLC duck). Everything else works much less reliably than Mitsu's options. Personally, i never really try to block RLC K...unless he's being a total cunt with it. It only becomes threatening when you're in the corner. I try to always step RLC B and whiff punish...i try to be a t a distance where i know he can't use RL A to stop my steps cuz the first hit of RLC has poor range. and the second A is high. SO something like step -> 1K becomes viable to me if I anticipate correctly. 2A vs RLC is a largely dangerous option imo. And as mentioned before cancelling an attack to warp or step seems viable. Not really a habit of mine though.
Just a few things i'll mention. SO long i haven't popped in Yoshi forums
DGF B is whoreable...if your opponent is reflexively good at flinch ducking. If they're flinch ducking, then they're not stepping and hence DGF B tears gauge and has great bs as everyone SHOULD know by now. Personally i use DGF A and B and DGF cancel a lot as my mix. DGF K is almost 5% of my mixups, i find DGF A comes as my 'low' cuz they are tempted to duck it. I love me some DGF A.
Countering MST with Yoshi is decent on paper, but QUITE problematic in actual play...why? cuz of one simple matter....RANGE. It is difficult and inconsistent to counter it effectively, cuz depending on at what distance he uses it, and it varies a LOT in actual play. I can't help but feel the responses Mitsu makes a far stronger than my possible counters.
If i'm close i usuallly find 6A one of the most reliable ways to counter ALL options (except RLC duck). Everything else works much less reliably than Mitsu's options. Personally, i never really try to block RLC K...unless he's being a total cunt with it. It only becomes threatening when you're in the corner. I try to always step RLC B and whiff punish...i try to be a t a distance where i know he can't use RL A to stop my steps cuz the first hit of RLC has poor range. and the second A is high. SO something like step -> 1K becomes viable to me if I anticipate correctly. 2A vs RLC is a largely dangerous option imo. And as mentioned before cancelling an attack to warp or step seems viable. Not really a habit of mine though.
- Moderator
- #59
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
Yoshimitsu Web Theater.
thats a huge load of irrelevant info, you guys better test your stuff before posting, especially if you consider that me , OyM and Hajime acutally know what we are talking about. I'm not even sure if I should elaborate on this. RLC B is not guardable on reaction. DFG B is not whorable (if you do it outside of a wake up, I can ssl and duck punish both options) etc etc.
thats a huge load of irrelevant info, you guys better test your stuff before posting, especially if you consider that me , OyM and Hajime acutally know what we are talking about. I'm not even sure if I should elaborate on this. RLC B is not guardable on reaction. DFG B is not whorable (if you do it outside of a wake up, I can ssl and duck punish both options) etc etc.