Yoshimitsu JF General

OneManjiArmy

[10] Knight
I don't know how I can help, but I usually figure out how fast or slow I should press JF 4AAAAA. The only reason why I tend to get it most times, is because I had to go by a rhythm. I press the A with the palm of my thumb at a not so fast yet not so slow pace.

I found my rythnm by setting the computer on all block. I kept doing 4AAAAA by listening to the guard hits and inputing it at the right time. I don't know but it worked for me.
 

NightKnighteh

[08] Mercenary
I have some qestions about Yoshimitsu's Justframes. To be honest about most of them;)

-Super Dragonfly :K:::K: done by inputting ::K: at moment of landing makes Yoshimitsu recover some health points. How much it is? I read that there is also second version of it that is made by inputting ::K: In exact moment of landing. Is that correct? It have longer recovery (freeze) but provides also aGI right?

-Jf spins (:4::A:, :1::A:, Fc :1::K:) in which way they are different than regular versions of them? I know they all saving you from falling prone after last blow. What are other differences? Is 8wayrun wiki correct that mid hitting Jf spinns are giving stun on hit ? How long is duration of that stun? It allows for any combo or is it just long enought to give free mixup? Spinning Jf kicks only gives immunity to Just Guard?

-Indian stance :A+B:::K: here I have some doubts about execution. ::K: needs to be imputted right after :A+B: or right after GI provided by :A+B: trigger? I read on 8wayrun wiki that there is also
:A+B:::K:::K: what does second ::K: do and when it need to be inputted wiki mentions Bliss stance so I guess it should work similarly like Super Dragonfly :K:::K: am I correct?

Thats all about mine Jf questions for now. Yeah I couldnt find more Jf questions ;).

Thanks in advance.

Btw: I want to say hi as new registered forum member. I was visiting you for around year but I was not registrated back then. I learned alot and you made my few months experience with Soul Calibur V definitely better.

Ps: Mine english arent too good but I hope its good enought for you to understand me ;).
 

Defiance-K

[09] Warrior
I have some qestions about Yoshimitsu's Justframes. To be honest about most of them;)

-Super Dragonfly Kdone by inputting ::K: at moment of landing makes Yoshimitsu recover some health points. How much it is? I read that there is also second version of it that is made by inputting ::K: In exact moment of landing. Is that correct? It have longer recovery (freeze) but provides also aGI right?

-Jf spins (:4::A:, :1::A:, Fc :1::K:) in which way they are different than regular versions of them? I know they all saving you from falling prone after last blow. What are other differences? Is 8wayrun wiki correct that mid hitting Jf spinns are giving stun on hit ? How long is duration of that stun? It allows for any combo or is it just long enought to give free mixup? Spinning Jf kicks only gives immunity to Just Guard?

-Indian stance :A+B:::K: here I have some doubts about execution. ::K: needs to be imputted right after :A+B: or right after GI provided by :A+B: trigger? I read on 8wayrun wiki that there is also
:A+B:::K:::K: what does second ::K: do and when it need to be inputted wiki mentions Bliss stance so I guess it should work similarly like Super Dragonfly :K:::K: am I correct?

Thats all about mine Jf questions for now. Yeah I couldnt find more Jf questions ;).

Thanks in advance.

Btw: I want to say hi as new registered forum member. I was visiting you for around year but I was not registrated back then. I learned alot and you made my few months experience with Soul Calibur V definitely better.

Ps: Mine english arent too good but I hope its good enought for you to understand me ;).

SDGF K:K heals maybe around 1/3 of your health if I remember correctly. Yes, the JF version provides a GI.
SDGF KK heals a minimal amount of health. Around 10 to 20 health points maybe.

JF Spins provide a GB at the last hit and have a random recovery (except JF FC 1KKKKK, which seems to recover all the time). JF 4AAAAA and JF 1AAAAA (although I would recommend not using 1AAAAA) on midair opponents provides a non air-controllable juggle that will re-launch them again on the last hit.
If the JF Spins are done against a standing opponent, the first three hits will hit and the other last two can be blocked. On counterhit, all hits connect successfully.
If the last hit of JF 4AAAAA hits, it will leave a window where you can iMCF. The timing is tight, however. You can also DNK after JF 4AAAAA. I don't know much about JF 1AAAAA other than like JF 4AAAAA, it can relaunch a midair opponent.
Even though the last hits provide a GB, you are still vulnerable.

IND A+B is trash in my opinion. But if it happens to hit, you press K right when he lands and K again right when he lands from his backflip. If you fail either input, you take damage. Just like SDGF K:K, it provides a good heal on JF and a minimal heal on a non JF input.
 

NightKnighteh

[08] Mercenary
Thank you for valuable informations.

I wouldnt expect that after so much effort with learning Jf 4A and 1A it can not guarantee at least to left Yoshimitsu standing specifically that even in that case it wouldnt be very safe.
I know that Jf 1A arent as good as Jf4A in combos because it is slover have longer recovery and after this move ends enemy is closer to ground what is bad news.
And out of combos for example its only advantage over 4B is some tracking (its A after all) and possibility to end before last blow to make enemy hesitate but 3B have more range and have greater combo potential after hit.

Abount IND A+B May be used as kind of torro ,,mixup'' with indian healing althrough i do agree that this is rarely reasonable option and more than very risky for small reward. But I wouldnt say this is trash because it is always some more options and it makes this stance more interesting and complete even if it doesnt makes it much better (it would be great stance even without it in my opinion).
 

Defiance-K

[09] Warrior
I do believe Ringout and Signia had a small discussion regarding 4AAAAA and its positives outside combos.
http://8wayrun.com/threads/scv-yoshimitsu-q-a-and-general-discussion.9051/page-46

Regarding IND stance, the only reason why I find it mediocre is because it is very easy to counter. It is decent if you can catch your opponent off guard, but besides that, you will probably be eating counters against knowledgeable players. Any IND warp move can be interrupted before it connects and characters have ways to completely avoid warp moves. I find IND A+B is only a last resort if for example, you find yourself going to get hit by a brutal vertical and you somehow are in IND. Besides that, IND A+B still has very hard counters. Simply backstepping or 1 timed forward/backstep can completely avoid it. Other characters like Astaroth or Cervantes can rip you right out of the air (2*8:B+G for Asta, backstep 8B+K iGDR... for Cerv).
I found (I'm not even sure if I created it, I'm sure some soul created it earlier than I did) a guaranteed, meterless counter against it as Yoshimitsu. If you fall for the GI, you can keep backstepping until your opponent lands and then transition into DGF and use the A+B air throw. This catches Yoshi if he fails the landing (before Yoshi does the "ow, my head" animation) and if he succeeds the landing and backflips. It also does decent damage. You can also try a:B+K, but unlike DGF A+B, the following damage will come from a mix-up rather than be guaranteed.

One thing I do love out of IND stance is his headbutt (I think the input was IND 6A+BK). I don't think a lot of opponents expect this due to how bizarre and quick it is. It's a neat way to end rounds when your opponent does not expect it. A common way I've seen this being done is 44b+k2B+K IND 6A+BK.

If you find that your opponent has difficulty in handling IND stance moves, feel free to abuse it until they start learning. Otherwise, you might find yourself getting punished here and there out of IND.
 

NightKnighteh

[08] Mercenary
It appears that i drived you a bit off-topic ;) I dont consider IND as killer up but I just simply like that stance and find it good in compare to many other special stances. I know that this stance cannot be used too often but same goes for most of special stances with rare exceptions but this is practically like with almost all Yoshimitsu moves. If used rarely and catching uprepared enemy it does great effect if used against enemy that expects it and have good idea how to counter it, it is tragedy.
Im going to listen this cast soon Im Yoshimitsu novice and I have much to learn regarding Yoshimitsu. Sorry if I sounded like expert in last post. I just like to have my own opinion about alot of stuff even if not supported with right amount of knowledge and facts to support it. Its better than being zombie who only rely and never question opinions of others i guess but it also have flawes of course.
 

Pocky-Yoshi

[14] Master
It appears that i drived you a bit off-topic ;) I dont consider IND as killer up but I just simply like that stance and find it good in compare to many other special stances. I know that this stance cannot be used too often but same goes for most of special stances with rare exceptions but this is practically like with almost all Yoshimitsu moves. If used rarely and catching uprepared enemy it does great effect if used against enemy that expects it and have good idea how to counter it, it is tragedy.
Im going to listen this cast soon Im Yoshimitsu novice and I have much to learn regarding Yoshimitsu. Sorry if I sounded like expert in last post. I just like to have my own opinion about alot of stuff even if not supported with right amount of knowledge and facts to support it. Its better than being zombie who only rely and never question opinions of others i guess but it also have flawes of course.

That's why you're excused for being offtopic. You want to learn to make your own opinions of what can you do. Being inquisitive is a great thing and I hope you don't lose sight of that. =)
 

AvDaniel

[09] Warrior
Any tips on 44B:B?

I'm aware that you can cancel the huge unblockable with 44bB but I've never ever actually seen a just frame version of the move. Does it even exist? It's the one Yoshi JF that eludes me and I kinda want to see how well it does against backstep...

(Btw the 44B unblockable definitely needs a just frame that makes it a 10 frame 130 damage move. That would be splendid.)
 

Signia

[13] Hero
It's pretty good against backstep if you get the full combo, but the range isn't amazing so watch it. I tended to overuse it, really. Honestly your best bet against backstep is to dash forward and iFC3K.

But if you do use it, make sure you hit the JF since it makes it a whole 2 frames faster (i18 -> i16) and makes it usable in situations like NM 1K (non-tip hit) backstep where 2B won't reach.
 

AvDaniel

[09] Warrior
What's the full combo? I went into training mode and I couldn't get 66A+B to combo (you could tech to either side) and 3B didn't launch. Maybe 2(A+B) 66?
 

Signia

[13] Hero
What's the full combo? I went into training mode and I couldn't get 66A+B to combo (you could tech to either side) and 3B didn't launch. Maybe 2(A+B) 66?
If you're too far away to iMCF, dash-3B. Or dash-iFC3K tech trap mixup with 66A+B. 2(A+B)66 works, but unreliably. Depends on how far you have to move. 22B can only be teched to the side you move to. 66A+B is teched right (by yoshimitsu). My most common followup is step-in deathcopter, though.
 

rudeb0y

[10] Knight
Any guidance on landing SDGF K:K or 1A series, the last hit? ( I really want SDGF K:K :P)

Also - I thought i'd confirm your earlier findings, Signia about 4A series, being roughly 30% likely to achieve recovery.

I ran 3 sets of 100, coming out at 46/100, 33/100 and 32/100 recoveries. So I think that confirms it.

I have the actual series of recoveries/non-recoveries if there are any statisticians out there who really want to dig deeper (i.e. chances of getting 2 in a row). Btw - my longest run on non-recovery was 14....

On 1A series, I know it's pretty much garbage but I think it might be the easiest one to psuedo-mixup out of.. Yoshi spins longer after you stop pressing buttons so it's slightly easier to hide your intentions. Messing about with 3B 4AAAA into 214A+G (on wakeup), suicide, etc. I think there's also some force blocks if you don't JF it and they air control. If I could land the JF consistently, then I'd be interested to know the odds on recovery of that vs. 4A series as well.. should that turn out to be say 50%, then it might give it some credibility on air hits etc.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
Back when I could do 1A series very consistently it seemed like the recovery rate was even lower than the 4A series's, though I didn't record any data.

Stopping early also always causes the last hit to be non-JF, so if you want to run string mixups you can't really do it with the JF, unless you purposely drop it to fool them. Your best chance is to make it work is to do 2 or 3 1As and do a perfect iMCF to interrupt them, anything else is too slow or unrewarding.