Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

I think it's difficult for Namco to keep the balance with Zwei and prevent him from being OP. I keep thinking "Man, I wish I had something really quick that could change the momentum." Like a quicker WR attack, or a step killer like Aeon's 66A but then I think about how it would be really easy for Zwei to pretty much shut somebody down with EIN and an OP move like Ivy's 214b.

Saying all that.......
I'd still love for 66K to do something other than be +2 if it connects. (Would a knockdown or a stun really be OP?)
22_88bb..... come on. Let the 2nd hit connect on counter hit. It's stupidly inconsistent.
I want 66a+b to track slightly. Like Mitsu's 66a+b.
Does anybody actually use the Pied Piper series?
 
GoldDragon said:
I think it's difficult for Namco to keep the balance with Zwei and prevent him from being OP. I keep thinking "Man, I wish I had something really quick that could change the momentum." Like a quicker WR attack, or a step killer like Aeon's 66A but then I think about how it would be really easy for Zwei to pretty much shut somebody down with EIN and an OP move like Ivy's 214b.

Saying all that.......
I'd still love for 66K to do something other than be +2 if it connects. (Would a knockdown or a stun really be OP?)
22_88bb..... come on. Let the 2nd hit connect on counter hit. It's stupidly inconsistent.
I want 66a+b to track slightly. Like Mitsu's 66a+b.
Does anybody actually use the Pied Piper series?
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Hmm i guess its hard to balance him out, Honestly I just want a decent step killer and maybe a good legit way to hold EIN.....I dont think he needs good lows and honestly I dont want him to. I dunno about 66k haven't used it much to comment on it. Yeah I agree I wish 22BB didn't whiff so much.....which is why I actually pretty much never use it, I dunno about tracking on 66A+b tho, I mean u can't step it and even tho its + on block the pushback just makes it inconsistent for zwei to continue followups unless your opponent is against the wall.

That being said a better way to hold ein, some faster frames,and a decent step killer is all I ask atm. It's really a pain dealing with chars who can just step and dance outside of ein's range, and take advantage of his poor defensive options.
 
The problem with 66K is there's no motivation to use it. It's actually a pretty decent attack because all his other 8WR attacks either take forever to come out or are inconsistent. But even when it hits on counter hit, you left right in front of your opponent at +2. Well, that's not all that great if you're playing a Natsu or a Voila.

There really is no range that Zwei is great at. He wins by setting traps and springing them. But if you can't get to set the trap.......
 
I'm not sure what you mean. Zwei is best up close, but doesn't really shine there until you have them under pressure. I don't mind sitting at tip range waiting for them to mess up either, but better opponents don't let themselves whiff and get 66BAed. Mid range kind of sucks too, but even then it's only as bad as what the other character can do at mid range.

I'm not convinced Zwei needs a step catcher. Not every character needs a quick mid horizontal to work. It would definitely help his game, but since you don't have that tool you need more time to think your way around it.
 
I use the Pied Piper alone as 6B+K to provide me some kind of cover or extra pressure when I'm going rushdown, like activating iR and rushing towards the opponent. It hits mid and vertical, so it can be mixed with 1A (low and horizontal) for a trap. It also can act as a visual cover. I rarely use its followups though, mainly as mixup.
 
The other night i was trying to learn some setup with delayed Ein and some unblockables to increase my damage output and i found a funny trick. You can cancel Ein with the taunt!!! And since you can cancel the taunt with the guard, is there any way you can use this setup in combat?
Seems like the dealyed ein -> taunt's cancel -> guard cancel isn't fast enough to make it really profit, but maybe it can be used to increase the mixup rate.
 
What do you guys usually do after a guard burst? I've been getting more lately with liberal usage of 66A+B. But between E.I.N. being on cooldown, the moves that cause the burst having long recovery, and slow startup on what I want to do after the burst, I never really manage to capitalize on the opportunity.

Belial's guide recommends an iWR B combo. Is there a trick to making it instant? Or do I just make the input as fast and clean as possible?
 
Usually I get my GB's from 214+B or 66BA. Then I do 1B(quickest hold), 3AA, 1K BE, A+B/CE.

For iWRB it's just timing. And soon as you feel yourself ducking, let go of G2 and immediately press B.
 
What's the general mindset to playing Zwei competently? I keep on feeling like I have absolutely no comprehension of him at all every time I face a remotely competent Zwei player and it's just bugging me.
 
Zwei can play keep out, but if you can play keep out just as well, he'll have a harder time getting in.

Zwei has no direct method to deal with moves that TC/TS simultaneously. He has to bait them out.

Duck 66BA. Duck 3AA. Duck 1(B) if not used in wake up.

Back tech/back roll B+K BE setups.

Break A near a wall or near a ring. Don't bother breaking B if Ein was out a second ago.
 
Er, thanks but I meant playing as him rather than against him xD

I'm in some wacky phase where I'm trying to get some vague comprehension of all characters by playing them. I mean like, when you're playing as everyone's favorite *Twilight-based insult here* what's the thought process overall? The depths of my understanding are limited to Ein cooldown and the CE x2 combo basically, which is quite shameful.
 
Do you know how to hold Ein? You know, so that you can try some gimmicks like 4(A) 214B. (Of course, if your opponent is familiar with fighting Zwei, he'll most likely hit you out of it instead of standing there lol). Or if you opponent is down, you can do 1(B), hold it and if they're still on the ground, use K, they'll launch up alittle so then you release B and after that, follow up with 66A+B (einless because the puppy is in cooldown mode). Holding ein in certain situations is key. Because I think every ein attack is safer than zwei's attacks. (Can someone correct me on this? Not 100% sure).

Zwei has some really great throws but it's risky since it's short and slow. (But very worth it in my opinion). For ex, A+G, you can follow up with 4B (BE) and then 66A+B.

I'm sure other players here will be able to provide better info but maybe you should check out the woof-woof guide from Belial. It's very helpful.

*There are way better zwei players then me so if I said something wrong, please feel free to correct me guys!
Edit: And Zwei is way cooler then anything Twilight related/Jacob! (>*^*)
 
I found a glich I think. B+K BE: if you throw the opponent at the right time while this move is coming out you will score a hit with B+K BE then the throw will connect immidietly after, B+K BE will looks like it didnt hit but you will get the full damage then a throw. Its not easy to replicate but its something fun for you guys.
 
Egg said:
I found a glich I think. B+K BE: if you throw the opponent at the right time while this move is coming out you will score a hit with B+K BE then the throw will connect immidietly after, B+K BE will looks like it didnt hit but you will get the full damage then a throw. Its not easy to replicate but its something fun for you guys.
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Yeah I tried that before although it's fun I have to say it's not really useful and reliable for high lv play or a tourney match since the timing and hit issues with it are often strict. Have to say tho B+K BE is one unique BE wish I could of discovered something new with it oh well.

Oh yeah does anyone find this B+K BE setup useful especially for guard break damage? It's B+K on ground hit follow up with B+K BE then another B+K..haha resulting like a triple ein attack from zwei. I figured this setup can only work in the corner tho.
 
Any ZWEI players gonna be at EVO? I know Belial is gonna be there but doubtful that he'll be playing him in any matches that matter.
 
Hey guys kinda a random post from me well not really...But gratz to that tira player who pretty much proved everyone wrong if they thought she was a bad char....but not here to talk about that really.
If I recall correctly there were hardly any Zwei players at EVO..or any..I feel the consensus on zwei is people may either say he's really bad or in the long run people have better chances of winning by picking another char...Just disappointed there weren't alot of zwei or heck even raph players...I shall laugh the day a zwei or perhaps anyone bottom tier places well in a tourney haha but I don't believe zwei is all that bad its just to me people are not interested in using him....or they don't wanna put the effort to win with him at all....because it does REQUIRE alot of effort to win with zwei against others char such as taking a chance for CH (1B comes into mind same for 6A) just guard because he lacks block punishment pretty much like viola and finally 6A+B to Gi mids for 40 damage, although the window is tight on it.

Just hope in the future we will see more zwei players at events such as EVO. As much as I would wanna go not happy with this game and haven't saved up enough money to travel....maybe one day I can fight some of you guys in some offline casuals haha
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
Just hope in the future we will see more zwei players at events such as EVO. As much as I would wanna go not happy with this game and haven't saved up enough money to travel....maybe one day I can fight some of you guys in some offline casuals haha
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My friends tell me to go to tournaments and try but I never think im ready because I fall for gimmicks and cheap tricks easily. Maybe one day ill build up the courage to try and go for something with my zwei. And I saw you also talking about raph. Hes my secondary XD. I main the southpaws lol. And I totally agree and am glad that a Tira won. Maybe now people will start to pick characters based on how they like them over how good someone says they are.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
Hey guys kinda a random post from me well not really...But gratz to that tira player who pretty much proved everyone wrong if they thought she was a bad char....but not here to talk about that really.
If I recall correctly there were hardly any Zwei players at EVO..or any..I feel the consensus on zwei is people may either say he's really bad or in the long run people have better chances of winning by picking another char...Just disappointed there weren't alot of zwei or heck even raph players...I shall laugh the day a zwei or perhaps anyone bottom tier places well in a tourney haha but I don't believe zwei is all that bad its just to me people are not interested in using him....or they don't wanna put the effort to win with him at all....because it does REQUIRE alot of effort to win with zwei against others char such as taking a chance for CH (1B comes into mind same for 6A) just guard because he lacks block punishment pretty much like viola and finally 6A+B to Gi mids for 40 damage, although the window is tight on it.

Just hope in the future we will see more zwei players at events such as EVO. As much as I would wanna go not happy with this game and haven't saved up enough money to travel....maybe one day I can fight some of you guys in some offline casuals haha
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I played ZWEI in every match at Evo. I went 4-2, making it out of my pool in winner's and ending up top 48. However, I only won two matches with ZWEI, both in my first set of the tournament. Every other match, I had to switch to my main to get the win. I got a lot of compliments on my ZWEI, and I think I'm pretty good with him (almost beat Xeph on stream at MLG last month), but that didn't mean I got wins with him.

ZWEI is not good, and the fact that you clearly state that he has to put in a lot more effort than most other characters mean you understand that fact. Even Belial didn't use ZWEI from what little I saw of his matches. You have to wonder why that was since he's one of the few people that actually thinks he's good.
 
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