Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

Yo Wolfpack the 66B write up is finally here :P
First here is the characters what can punish it -
Pat (only at the edge with AA)
Lei (AA close range, CE all ranges)
Natsu (AA close range her first hit of A:6 whiffs :P )
Ezio (only at edge with AA)
Raph (6BB close and mid range, CE close range)
Viola ( AA close range or AAB if orb set)
Pyrrha (AA close range)
Ivy (6B8K and 4B close range)
Cervy (aB close range, CE all ranges)
Tira (4K close range, gloomy AA close range)
Maxi (AA close range)
Yoshi (iMCF close range)
Dampierre (only at the edge with 4B, which is risky for him he might RO/W! himself)
Pyrrha O (AA close range)
A Pat (Twister close and mid range, CE all ranges)

The only characters who can punish 66B at all ranges are Lei CE, Cervy CE and Alpha CE which will all get interrupted if you do 66BA :)

As for blocked 66B options the range of where its blocked comes into play.

Close range vs Pat.

So your at -12. if they twitch duck after 66B then that takes about 6 or 7 frames off your disadvantage.

66B - 2A will trade with i26 attacks after if they hesitate or duck for the 66BA then 2a will be about i18.

66B - 2k will hit turtling opponents and can interrupt like 2A.

66B - 66B+K looks promising it jumps over and hits many of Pats retaliations like 3B, 66B, 236A and 2A. Again more effective if they twitch duck. (or try to counter 2a/2k)

66B - sidestep feels like a worthwhile mention because he is outta range of Pats 2A and 2K and avoids 3B, 66B and BB so sets up for whiff punish.

66B - 3A BE is going for big. Working more effectively on a opponent moving to bait a whiff punish who dont wanna deal with the 2a/2k/66B+k mix up.

If you want my opinion this is a legit way to carry on your offense after -12 if you really need to, but imo the "best" option is blocking and taking note of how the opponent reacts to it.
 
I don't know what things have been posted anymore, but in

WR B > BT B+K > BT A+B

Delaying the BT A+B to the time the opponent is hitting the ground gives you ~10 extra damage.
 
Yeah more lately it seems they is abit more execution to play ZWEI, his JFs and strict/specisfic timings include -

1K BE delay 1K BE.
1K BE step 1K BE.
1K BE delayed 66BA.
WRB > BT B+K > G > 1K BE.
4B BE > 66A+B) > 66A+B.
WRB > BT B+K > delayed A+B.
CE > B+K BE > 1K> 1A vs some other characters.
Last frame 1K BEs for extra damage.
66A+B) 214B unblockable.
 
Yo Wolfpack I recently was in a tourney in London just wanted to let you know it went realy good, I didn't make it out of pools but was playing really well in most of the games

#representingthewolfpack
 
AndyrooxDS said:
66B Snip.
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Most players will go for a fast TC with strong guard damage. And cause of ZWEI's punishment game, or lack there of, there's a bunch of options.

IE:
Pat 4B, 3B
Lexia iFC3B, 3B
Natsu 66B, 66B4
Ezio A+B
Raph 4B, pretty sure he can interupt with 6BB anyway.
Viola 4B... I think
Pyrrha 4[A], 44B/iWR B+K, 22_88K (whichever way is left), iFC 236 bullshit
Sieg iWR B
Hilde ... I dont know Hilde... 22B?
Xiba 4A, 4B, 1B, 22B, iWR A+B, 66K, or just B+K stance crap
Ivy 3B, iWR3B?(dunno the notation), 214B
Cervy aB pretty much beats all your options
Aeon 1B BE, 66K, iWR B
Tira 6K, GS 3B, iWR K
NM iFC 3B
Rugi iFC 1B, 236B, 236 , 236A, 4B, 11_99BA (whichever is left), K+G, 66B+K/4B6 Stance crap
Maxi iWR B+K or 6A+B... does he have other moves?
Yoshi ... not a clue
Damp ... see yoshi
Voldo CR B+K, 4K
Asta 66K
aPat iFC 3B:B
Algol Who Plays Algol?
Poe DNSB, DNSA, 4[A], 22_88B (Left)

Also back step kills all your options and 66BA at tip and certain characters at mid.

Grats On Not Making It Out Of Pools.
HolyCarp said:
^ Can confirm the above.

I witnessed ZWEI take out several top players/tiers.

#Support #TimeToLetGo #Cake
(Cake = 6A+B in Japanese)
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#MUIgnorance
 
FenrisZero said:
Most players will go for a fast TC with strong guard damage. And cause of ZWEI's punishment game, or lack there of, there's a bunch of options.

IE:
Pat 4B, 3B
Lexia iFC3B, 3B
Natsu 66B, 66B4
Ezio A+B
Raph 4B, pretty sure he can interupt with 6BB anyway.
Viola 4B... I think
Pyrrha 4[A], 44B/iWR B+K, 22_88K (whichever way is left), iFC 236 bullshit
Sieg iWR B
Hilde ... I dont know Hilde... 22B?
Xiba 4A, 4B, 1B, 22B, iWR A+B, 66K, or just B+K stance crap
Ivy 3B, iWR3B?(dunno the notation), 214B
Cervy aB pretty much beats all your options
Aeon 1B BE, 66K, iWR B
Tira 6K, GS 3B, iWR K
NM iFC 3B
Rugi iFC 1B, 236B, 236 , 236A, 4B, 11_99BA (whichever is left), K+G, 66B+K/4B6 Stance crap
Maxi iWR B+K or 6A+B... does he have other moves?
Yoshi ... not a clue
Damp ... see yoshi
Voldo CR B+K, 4K
Asta 66K
aPat iFC 3B:B
Algol Who Plays Algol?
Poe DNSB, DNSA, 4[A], 22_88B (Left)

Also back step kills all your options and 66BA at tip and certain characters at mid.

Grats On Not Making It Out Of Pools.


#MUIgnorance
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It is just a reverse mix up there is no move in the game which punishes 66B and ducks under/beats out 66BA. (apart from JFT)
Half these moves you have listed gets beaten out by 66BA.
If the opponent does have a TC move to go under the high such as Patroklos 236A or Leixia 4A then ZWEI can still block or if they is no delay at all after 66B on block he could JG or GI if need be.
66B also breaks in 10 so if ZWEI does eat some guard damage from this scenario the opponent will be taking some if not more guard damage in exchange.
 
Guys ZWEIs 33A is 28 damage and -7 on guard as opposed to 66A which is 26 damage and -9 on guard.

Unfortunately there is no noticeable difference between 33A BE and 66A BE.
 
Found something new:

In the situation of JGing a GI via 66(A+B), 1(B) , 4(A), B+K BE, 66A BE

Normaly after the JG this is what you can usually land;
A+B
3AA
3A BE
3B/4B BE
3AA is distance dependent. A+B is generally what you want to go for unless you are next to them.

But, you can also do a crouching JG instead. If you get a crouching JG then this move will work:

WR B
This leads to a massive amount of damage. 81++

It takes practice to get the timing down to do this, but this can be used to hard counter a GI on Ein.

This Trick works against all A-GI's except vs APat and Yoshi. Xiba can A-GI and counter the WR B, so you will have to mix up your defense vs Xiba on this tactic if B+K is employed as a counter.

One More Trick I found:

(B+K) BE > 66B+K on hit > Ein LAte Hit > (2G) > 4(A+B) = 160+
can be evaded by teching left

(B+K) BE > 66B+K on hit > EIN Late hit > G > 1A = 134
Catchs left tech, Requires Late hit with ein. Tapping G is a JF input. 1K can be used instead for less execution but the damage is less.

(B+K) BE > 66B+K on hit > Ein > A+B = 105+
Standard Combo. Good oprion if you dont need more damage.
 
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Yo wolfpack, It's Andyroo I've had a little name change.

Cecil is the shortened nickname I'd prefer to go by from now on pronounced ses - ill

I know I have work to do regarding the MU threads and combo thread it will get done I promise soon enough you guys should have everything you need to play zwei thanks too myself @Egg @Zane and others that have contributed in the forums.

Does the soul still burn for zweI here? Sure still does with me :)

#66a+b
 
Yo wolfpack, something pretty strong I have found.

Before it seems like 2K never combo'd with B+K BE, well matter of fact it does.

It's a JF timing but if get 2K to hit on the very frame B+K BE hits then 2K will actually do 72 damage lol.

This is a true low it was testing in training (opponent set to all stand guard) and in a player match where me and a friend kept doing it to each other and it was hitting alright.

Lets look at what this gives us.

-A low which the opponent must guess after a b+k be, and if you get the JF timing its a soild 72 damage and a neutral situation afterwards.
-A reason to for them to actually block low.
-Easy to bait out counters because two problems I see with it are its slow( you have to wait till ein is gonna hit make contact) and Ein hits together so one GI will repel it. So the opponent is either gonna wanna press buttons or get away when they see b+k be which you can counter and when Ein is about to make contact and you could 2K, if your opponent wants to GI you then you can JG the GI.
- Its also pretty safe to go for, if you miss the JF timing you still got 16 damage in and frame advantage from Ein, or if its blocked 2k is made safe by Ein.
this also sets up (b+k be) plays letting you do more stuff and then going for the 2K JF things include -
(b+k be) - b+k - 9B/2K/GI/JG - 2K:Ein hit
(b+k be) - 2k - 2k:Ein hit
(b+k be) - 9b/2a/bb/ - 2K:Ein hit

conditioning your opponent is key!
 
Cecil x Silver said:
Yo wolfpack, something pretty strong I have found.

Before it seems like 2K never combo'd with B+K BE, well matter of fact it does.

It's a JF timing but if get 2K to hit on the very frame B+K BE hits then 2K will actually do 72 damage lol.

This is a true low it was testing in training (opponent set to all stand guard) and in a player match where me and a friend kept doing it to each other and it was hitting alright.

Lets look at what this gives us.

-A low which the opponent must guess after a b+k be, and if you get the JF timing its a soild 72 damage and a neutral situation afterwards.
-A reason to for them to actually block low.
-Easy to bait out counters because two problems I see with it are its slow( you have to wait till ein is gonna hit make contact) and Ein hits together so one GI will repel it. So the opponent is either gonna wanna press buttons or get away when they see b+k be which you can counter and when Ein is about to make contact and you could 2K, if your opponent wants to GI you then you can JG the GI.
- Its also pretty safe to go for, if you miss the JF timing you still got 16 damage in and frame advantage from Ein, or if its blocked 2k is made safe by Ein.
this also sets up (b+k be) plays letting you do more stuff and then going for the 2K JF things include -
(b+k be) - b+k - 9B/2K/GI/JG - 2K:Ein hit
(b+k be) - 2k - 2k:Ein hit
(b+k be) - 9b/2a/bb/ - 2K:Ein hit

conditioning your opponent is key!
Click to expand...

Whoa great find, I'm going to try that as soon as I get on! Also when I read this post I read it in the voice of Micheal from Vsauce xD
 
MarKOed said:
Whoa great find, I'm going to try that as soon as I get on! Also when I read this post I read it in the voice of Micheal from Vsauce xD
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Hey wolfpack! Cecil here!

....

And as always, thanks for reading! XD
I might just start saying that
 
Yeah it is timing you need to get used to, who says Zwei don't have Jfs lol

This is great for round ending and hitting otg
 
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I know that if you do b+kBE 4B 2K the brave edge will hit. I wonder if the same goes for standard. It could be something used to mix up.
If they block the 4B, swap 2K out for a 2B or something?
 
I prefer B+K BE > BB because it does more damage and it is faster. Usually its best to avoid using B+K BE > 4B since 4B causes a lot of damge to be scaled in combo.

B+K BE > 2K usually only works on CH unless it is timed absolutly perfect. B+K BE > 2A will combo anytime however due to 2A being +8 on hit.

A great low to do is B+K BE > 11K. This move has a really huge FC and if used well, it will evade a lot of things to deal damage.

Another 2 great mids to use with B+K BE

22B and 1K.

22B on CH leads into B+K BE and if timed both 22BB will hit then the B+K BE can be used.
B+K BE 22B > Ein > 1A /66A+B
or
(B+K) BE 22BB > Eim > 1A/66A+B

1K on NH causes Ein to land and do the standard fall down
1K CH causes Ein to do the CH variation.

B+K BE > 1K > 1A
B+K BE > CH 1K > CE > 1A/66A+B


As to answer your questions about what do after
B+K BE > 4B blocked > Ein Blocked > into ?

Ein Puts you at a very large advantage on block. Basically you are free to throw just about any attack. Your best options are:

2K/FC K
BB
AA
FC B
FC A
22K
A+B at tip range
3AA for 8wayrun
Throw
11K
66K
or 1K if you think you can land it.
 
Yeah b+k 2k is pretty soild timing having to be perfect, it's basically a Apat 1b:b jf but it is a unseeable low when your opponent is content on staying Still. 11k is great in its own regard avoiding stuff, hitting grounded, wall splatting into Wrb and requiring no Jf but it is reactable, it's probably one of zweis most dangerous gimmicks.
 
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