Pirate Matchups

babalook said:
Ya exactally but once i get a car i would atleast atempt to find the tournies.
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Well that'll help build a solid base for SC5 then lol. I've known a lot of really young players in the tourney scene, but they usually are in a scenario where they have help from the community to travel around.

franman said:
So about that Raph vs Cervy matchup?
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Sidestep a lot? I mean, Raph is garbage man. As long as you don't get baited into attacking against his frametraps, you just sidestep everything and kill him. Online this is spotty of course, but you should know better already. The only way he can damage you at all is if you attack him head on, just sidestep until he whiffs. And he WILL whiff.
 
Well just to revive this thread I think ivy beats cervy. If you get in close SW is faster and safer than cervy. She overall has a amazing grab game with more dmg and more range. After her CL 1B B+K if she back steps nothing in his move list will hit and its got good SG and good dmg on hit. WP she can CH fish with 3A at tip and you can’t punish it with aB, it also has great keep out like 6B+K2. The only thing I see cervy has on her is better dmg but if they turtle it up they wont be getting hit much in the first place and cervys 1K is great but she has ways of making you want to not attack after it. What are your thoughts people?
 
Most everyone has ways of making you not want to attack after 1k on hit. iTP, GI and even just blocking are all perfectly fine options after 1k on hit, depending on how Ivy's handling being hit by it. I mean let's face it, what else is he gonna do against people that block, work their soul gauge? lol
 
babalook said:
Well just to revive this thread I think ivy beats cervy. If you get in close SW is faster and safer than cervy. She overall has a amazing grab game with more dmg and more range. After her CL 1B B+K if she back steps nothing in his move list will hit and its got good SG and good dmg on hit. WP she can CH fish with 3A at tip and you can’t punish it with aB, it also has great keep out like 6B+K2. The only thing I see cervy has on her is better dmg but if they turtle it up they wont be getting hit much in the first place and cervys 1K is great but she has ways of making you want to not attack after it. What are your thoughts people?
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I think you're bad...

Way to oversimplify a matchup. I posted like a 10 paragraph long Ivy vs. Cervy thing for doc and I think even that's oversimplifying it.


I still love u tho
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KowtowRobinson said:
Most everyone has ways of making you not want to attack after 1k on hit. iTP, GI and even just blocking are all perfectly fine options after 1k on hit, depending on how Ivy's handling being hit by it. I mean let's face it, what else is he gonna do against people that block, work their soul gauge? lol
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well at least 1K leaves you in perfect range for a throw
 
Nofacekill3r said:
well at least 1K leaves you in perfect range for a throw
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You know you love it when you hit that tip range 1k and the command grab glitches out and doesn't execute, lol. But yes the base mixup is 6k or throw, I figured that was common knowledge. iTP can go over 2a interrupts that trade with 6k, everything else just use your best judgement.
 
Im starting to come to the conclusion that ivy might not be all that great in this matchup not just cause im doing better against noface but also just do to a mathmatical stand point. Ivy's 1B B+K can be avoided by 8wayrun to the right for a risk reward thats heavily in your favor considering CL's best step catcher is like AA. Her SG game is out the window if you use the FC A+BBBBBBBBBB alot. And every ivy's favorite WP move 6B+K2 can be pooped on with [B+K] which gives you a free BT B+K at any range for like a 105 dmg combo. And overall the risk reward is basically always in his favor. Im not really seeing what makes ivy real good aside from having alot of safe mids and everyones lack of knowledge of the matchup, will someone please explain to me how stupid i am for being one of the only people to not see ivys godliness.
 
I am actualy going to agree on a lot of things you just said Baba :). Knowledge of the matchup is the problem most of us have with Ivy. I actually have no idea what 1B B+K is, if I coud get a description of that move Id understand better, if not Ill have to jump in the game and find it myself.

6B+K2 countered with B+K: Ill check this out for sure, getting high damage is always nice.

I need to confirm some info before I give an answer to your quesrion. I wont call you stupid though, I still think Cervy is way to underrated.
 
According to the Ivy match-up thread most of the ppl there are saying itz 5:5. One Ivy player told me that Cervy is great for punishing; however, Ivy's SG game is better.

Too bad I can't do FC A+B GC, if Namco only made the right analogue and attack button I would've pull it off consistently.
 
I think the FC GB is a neccesity with cervantes. Also what about kilik is it pretty bad for cervy?
 
Well Kilik is a dick.

You really need to know this matchup very very very well. Spam aB all day, most Kiliks have trouble punishing it with 3kB if they dont play the matchup all the time...(slow Camera turn to SU :P )

Then of course 66K, Asura Air hit gives you a free iGDR afterwards...Punish ALL of his unsafe stuff, thats 22AB, 22AA(IGDR this, it will TJ the third hit and punish the second), 22B, 46B, 1_3A+B (IGDR this Consistently and your top tier, not easy...even more hard is RCC aB)...duck WS KK etc etc

Step his WS B when he spams it, be patient, they always start doing it when you spam 6A... dont attack all the time, USE iTP A LOT (this is Gold against Kilik)...when they start using MO against your Anti Asuras learn how to GI it back, its so easy, never see people doing it...especially MO A is very easy timing to GI back....

It just need a lot of practice, there is a lot of to know on this matchup, clearly its NOT in Cervantes favour but its possible...6:4 for Kilik...
 
franman said:
According to the Ivy match-up thread most of the ppl there are saying itz 5:5. One Ivy player told me that Cervy is great for punishing; however, Ivy's SG game is better.
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Cervy is not great for punishing.
But compared to Ivy, Cervy is great for punishing.
That's the point.
 
Cervy poops on Ivy. I'm thinking 6:4 his favor.

Here's why:

-Probably her best form of pressure comes from SG damage, which can be dealt with by healing your SG with FC A+BBB, or stepping into 3B iGDR28B, BT mixup. Don't fear stepping, the risk/reward is HEAVILY in your favor

-He can B+K her WP 6B+K on reaction, and even if you only do the first hit, he is still at advantage and he gets a very scary mixup

-He takes a steamy crap on her sword stance with 3A+B, 44B, FC A+BBB, and step

-More pressure than her, he has quicker access to a strong throw mixup - requires no setup, and plus he has 1K whereas Ivy doesnt really have quick acess to a low poke other than FC 3B, which many people can see, and it's linear...

-He can close distance from mid range whenever he feels like it with 66A, 66K, bK

-risk reward is always in his favor



Basically everything Babalook said....I will try to test this more offline if the little gremlin decides to show up...
 
whiff punish/i15ish and up punish - igdr

step punish - 3B igdr delay 28B, BT mixup

duck punish - FC A+BBBB into amazing oki

i13 punish - aB


I think the only characters that might have this topped are Sophitia and Setsuka...
 
guys I know for fact Malek knows what hes talking about from personal ass beatings he gave me.....

I think what he means is this: You have to force your oppent to whiff just to be able to do high damage with Cervy. That is not Punnishing in Soul Calibur terminology. Sure Doing damage to someone because you ducked a throw grants you a FC 3A+BBBBBBB or WR A, but your gunna have to on top of it every time. Honestly that is a bitch to do consistantly.

aB, A, AA, 6A, 6K, K being his only Block punishment tools does limit him on this front. Forcing the other player to whiff though is the goal and that can be tricky due to cervys weak step. If you do get it though, your looking at really good damage.

playing head Games with Cervy is what its all about with him. True iGDR is the best punisher in the game, but if your oppenent knows this and he knows not to throw out attacks that are -15 and easy to see then the battle becomes a real challenge.

Forunatly Cervy does have tools that pressure the opponent into makeing mistakes but a good deal of them are risks. Always Keep safety in mind though because if you don't a really good player will steam roll you every time.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
whiff punish/i15ish and up punish - igdr

step punish - 3B igdr delay 28B, BT mixup

duck punish - FC A+BBBB into amazing oki

i13 punish - aB


I think the only characters that might have this topped are Sophitia and Setsuka...
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Its not like block punishing actually matters against ivy most ivy's only use one move thats significantly punishable and that'd be CL 214B. And also to egg i dont think staying "safe" really matters in the majority of matchups, with cervy its not like he's a very punishable character in reality and the risk/reward is in you favor. Also its not hard to play safe with him i only use 3A+B, 6A, 1K, FC A+BBBBBBBBBB, grabs, 2A+B, 66K, and 3B but i normally dont even need half of them. With my style of play its all about slow moves like the FC GB that's only downside is being slowISH which can eventually lead to your opponent wanting to use quicker moves and more pokes out of disadvantage which leads to easy CH's for me. Also if you use the FC GB(also known by those who play me as THE GB) at smart times throughout the rounds you can turtle way harder then your opponent cause you dont have to worry about SG. I dont see why more cervys dont abuse the move but ya.
 
Nofacekill3r said:
whiff punish/i15ish and up punish - igdr

step punish - 3B igdr delay 28B, BT mixup

duck punish - FC A+BBBB into amazing oki

i13 punish - aB


I think the only characters that might have this topped are Sophitia and Setsuka...
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Surely Voldo belongs up there too? While he lacks a good punisher below i16, his 6:6B is still excellent. The damage off of a full combo is pretty nice(Even better if they try and tech during certain parts), but the mix-up opportunities are what makes it really shine. If a 6:6B lands on neutral hit, these are the combo ender mix-up options Voldo has:

-44: MCHT 66/ MCHT K/ MCHT 2_8, LF A_LF B_LF B+K/ MCHT A+Bg/ MCHT A+B2

-2A+B236: CR B/ CR K/ CR B+K/ 214 [A+B]/ CR A+K/ A+B+K/ G

-1: 3BB(Gauge damage)/ 4B(Gauge damage)/ 236 A+B(Gauge damage)/ A+G/ B+G/ A+B/ 4A/ 1K/ 236 B/ 6:6B

As you can see, Voldo's mix-ups off of just one simple combo are pretty ridiculous. Let me give you an example of 1, as it's one of the best mix-up tools in the game. Say you've just blocked something, and then punish it with 6:6B, 66B, 6:6B, 1. You've used this combo twice before over the course of playing them, and both times you used it you followed through with a throw. Your opponent, now expecting a throw, ducks to avoid it. However, you decided to use A+B instead, thus stunning them and setting up for 66B, 6:6B, 44, MCHT 66. You just did over 100 damage because your opponent guessed wrong.
 
ya but no voldos really do that so no ones really scared about being punished by him, punishing a -16 move with that would also be very hard.
 
babalook said:
ya but no voldos really do that so no ones really scared about being punished by him, punishing a -16 move with that would also be very hard.
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It honestly depends on the move. Fast animation moves like Mitsu's 3B are hard as hell to punish, while something like his A+B is not.
 
Egg said:
I think what he means is this: You have to force your oppent to whiff just to be able to do high damage with Cervy.
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What about 3B? 3B, gun, iGDR, 8_2B is 65+ w/wakes. iGDR punishes A LOT of blocked moves. aB is one of the best moves in the game. 66B to Wall is 100+ (or it Rings Out). WS A as a you said punishes great also (blocked lows).


Sorry, I strongly disagree w/Malek that Cervantes is not one of the best punishers.
 
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