Skill vs. Talent

[ZDamned]

This is kind of sad that everyone is trying to define this over a very simple thing.
The player who calls everyone out, and can't back it up in a series of best out of 5 matches, then he can't be the better player.
I don't think anyone here is saying that someone who loses 50 times in a row, and gets 1 final match in, somehow wins it, and quits screaming he is better, is the better player, and you all need to stop arguing about that.

 

[Nukleurfire]

You guys= winning by any means is skill
Plume= Utilizing knowledge and reflexes is skill.

Anyways... Gator, you have verified my point. If I am at a disadvantage, and I lose, does it always mean I am less skilled? You answered no. We are agreeing yet you persist upon saying that spinning mitsurugis are greater than thoughtful tactics.

 

[GATOR]

to ur first quote of me i was referring to the offline version of the game. Online with certain amounts of lag certain moves can be "broken" in which case it doesn't fit within the realm of competitive play by the "normal" definition. But in general... that IS the case. ease of gameplay is STRATEGY. Not how complex your character's moveset is. Its almost like you feel playing as setsuka gives you a "I'm better than you cuz my character has harder moves to do" complex... In that quote a person whose simple game plan... ie.. I'm gonna use this combo. Or I'm just gonna hit high every time or low every time. A MIX-up like going low and high with mitsu is easy to perform in the physical button press concept but much more advance than just hitting mid moves again and again with someone like setsuka and HOPING a fast safe move hits at some point. This one is more of an issue of my wording though probably than anything else so I"ll give you this one.

lol... your second quote.. see.. we are saying the mitsu ONLY is going low. In which case... yes.. its VERY VERY VERY easy to block him. If anyone uses just one type of move then it shouldn't be an issue at ALL. if they start mixing it up and going mid/low then that isn't ONLY using lows now is it? Using mids and lows starts into a territory I didn't refer in my first post so I have nothing to protect lol. but I will say that mitsu is only mid-ish tier for a reason so you really shouldn't be complaining about mitsu if you also keep by your "tier list" idea of a better player is the person using the weaker harder to use character. Cuz TECHNICALLY then the mitsu is better than u since mitsu is lower tier than setsuka.

Our definition of better is indeed different. I take better to mean better at the game. Sounds like you are saying you find the better person to be the one that fits under your non-specific match to match parameters as so decided by you. Which is cool.. but you'll never get anyone to agree with you on it therefore. because one person's idea of "bullshit" is completely different than the next...and some like me don't believe there is such thing as bullshit unless its a glitch/game breaker/or lag related. And to the second paragraph under this third quote I'd just like to quickly say that bulldogging is a playstyle as much as turtling or mixing up turtling and rushing. Some characters are just simply not even BUILT to be able to paly a different style then the one they are mainly given. ITs called a rushdown character... they are built with moves that allow you to rushdown well..such as mix-ups and knockdowns.

To the last quote i am indeed saying that the mitsu is the better online player that match if he was able to used laggy moves to win. Unless you guys agreed before the match to not 1A there is nothing at all unfair about it because you both went in with the knowledge of being online. He might be less SKILLED than you. And overall not be better...cuz he'd lose 4 out of 5 matches against you. But in that match.. hell yes he was better than you... or more importantly you were WORSE than he was.
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You guys= winning by any means is skill
Plume= Utilizing knowledge and reflexes is skill.

Anyways... Gator, you have verified my point. If I am at a disadvantage, and I lose, does it always mean I am less skilled? You answered no. We are agreeing yet you persist upon saying that spinning mitsurugis are greater than thoughtful tactics.

i agree with the word skill. I'm saying the mitsu was BETTER than you if he won.. not necessarily more skilled. therefore I assume we agree? lol. That or your getting confused over something.

 

[Fuzion]

Quote:
And on the topic of lag. If you go online with KNOWLEDGE that the game doesn't play the same on vs. offline then you are accepting the terms of combat as it may be. In which case if you lose its not because "they abused lag tactics" but rather that the other person is better at you given the domain of the fight...online.

wut.
Here you're saying that Mitsugi is a better player because he can mix 66B with 1A and 2KB.

You missed where he said given the domain of the fight...online. He is better at playing soul calibur online than you are, since he's clued in to what the best strategy is in the environment of online soul calibur.

But it's the whole point...
This game HAS apples, and it also has oranges.
Oranges can't be as red as an apple... Well, they can. But the orange is gonna need some help.
Where the apple doesn't have to work for it. It's red. It wins from the start without having to do any work for it.
Would it be more red than the orange even if it had to work for it? Maybe.
But in this situation, it's red without working for it. So it doesn't prove that it's better than the orange.

Damn that's so unclear.

What people are trying to tell you is that the game begins at the character select screen and not after it. You only have yourself to blame for picking oranges - IF you are truly trying to win AT THE GAME OF SOUL CALIBUR. You should be saying "I can turn on my console, we both grab a controller, and I will end with more wins than you." From that point on: prove it, and thus prove who the better Soul Calibur 4 player is. If you pick mina... you lack some skills in character selection. And yes, THAT is truly a skill, believe me. Especially when humans are involved, picking a character that is anti-YOUR OPPONENT is useful. Knowledge is power. If you know this guy can't defend Talim because he has never dealt with her before, but he's a goddamn champion at fighting Hilde because he faces her all the time, you would be wise to run Talim against him if you have the skills.

 

[GATOR]

^^ well put fuzion.

and i just realized that neuk was saying that we were saying skill=winning by any means is skill. Tahts not at ALL what I'm saying. Being BETTER is winning by any means. Skill is the ability to do something.. such as combos.. or duckign highs on reactions etc.

 

[Nukleurfire]

^^ well put fuzion.

and i just realized that neuk was saying that we were saying skill=winning by any means is skill. Tahts not at ALL what I'm saying. Being BETTER is winning by any means. Skill is the ability to do something.. such as combos.. or duckign highs on reactions etc.

I understand now. (In your mind) winning is what matters. Ability is irrelevant. Ok. That is simply your values, and you are entitles to that. My artificial definition of success is meaningless to you, and your shallow definition of success is meaningless to me.

OK

 

[Archangel]

It never ceases to amaze me the excuses people come up with for not winning tourneys.

 

[GATOR]

i didn't say that. Your purposely taking what I said out of context little buddy. Of course ability means something (define ability though??? you mean skill I assume when you say ability). Do you know what shallow means? because if so you are using it wrong or implying something that is just simply wrong. But the person who is better at the GAME is the person that wins more often then not. Maybe your thinking of better as being the person better at being knowledgeable at the game. Even for "better" there are distinct definitions, they just relate to more specific areas since the term "better" is just a word to compare two things within a standard.

And we are talking nothing of success..lol..if you are looking to be "successful" at videogames without the mindset of "win win win... and win" then you are going to fail. fail=lose. lose=/=win..lol.

And who said the word artificial to anyone's meaning of success? i know i never even TALKED about success so couldn't have been me. and if you DIDN'T mean skill when you said ability then you just straight up are using an irrelevant WORD...lol..so i guess i do agree with you saying "ability is irrelevant."

 

[Plume]

Its almost like you feel playing as setsuka gives you a "I'm better than you cuz my character has harder moves to do" complex...

Heh. I DO have that complex and I'm quite happy with it. :P
It's better than those Mitsurugi players who enter their stance after they win, thinking they're cool.

Our definition of better is indeed different. I take better to mean better at the game. Sounds like you are saying you find the better person to be the one that fits under your non-specific match to match parameters as so decided by you.

Not really... I do mean better at the game.
The thing about losing by default if you play something is easier was just ..."deeper in my opinion", as I said. Not really an important point.

But in that match.. hell yes he was better than you... or more importantly you were WORSE than he was.

I think we'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

It never ceases to amaze me the excuses people come up with for not winning tourneys.

Who here is giving excuses for losing a tourney...?

 

[GATOR]

and the more "able" person anyway if it is what you meant... is the one that wins... unless you guys play the game with a mindset of not winning or something.

well plume.. i have no problem with disagreeing on what "better" means because like i said in one of my above posts... better isn't anything very specific.. it depends what you are saying "your better at" lol. So there is nothing to fight about really..lol.

 

[Nukleurfire]

Gator:
I did not post that post with any malice. Artificial was my term.

 

[GATOR]

okay homie :)

 

[Nukleurfire]

okay homie :)

*Tentative smile*

 

[TsunamiBye]

so much head hurt here.

Yeah, I think this thread fried my brain.

All I know is Plume has a signature that answers "what is skill".

Yet, he has to keep giving us more "FYI of what kind of skills are out there".

I'm going to have aHEART ATTACK

lol

 

[pineapplejuice]

lol @ edit of OP. talent ftw

 

[ShenOu]

Stop cocksucking Sirlin, whoever put that tag in.
You should be asking What would ShenOu do..

Oh yeah.. you're right. ^^.