Characters who need a good "buff" in the future

HolyForce

HolyForce

I will show you...
1. Raphael

While he's not impossible to win with, things like...
a) His stance (Preparation) being horrible overall
b) 95% of his moveset evaded by stepping left, even when he's at massive advantage
c) His 4A+B auto-GI being re-GI'able back at him
d) Virtually no ring outs or wall potential
etc;
... need fixed. It's only balanced considering the nice tools other chars have at their disposal. I'd love the chance to show the devs how a balanced Raphael should work without changing much about him right now.

2. Talim

Even though I don't play her [ever], I believe she has some of the worst crap in the game to work with.

3. Tira

My feelings on Tira are kind of like the Raph statement above of '...considering the nice tools other chars have at their disposal [it's only fair Tira gets some more]'
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

HolyForce said:
1. Raphael

While he's not impossible to win with, things like...
a) His stance (Preparation) being horrible overall
b) 95% of his moveset evaded by stepping left, even when he's at massive advantage
c) His 4A+B auto-GI being re-GI'able back at him
d) Virtually no ring outs or wall potential
etc;
... need fixed. It's only balanced considering the nice tools other chars have at their disposal. I'd love the chance to show the devs how a balanced Raphael should work without changing much about him right now.

2. Talim

Even though I don't play her [ever], I believe she has some of the worst crap in the game to work with.

3. Tira

My feelings on Tira are kind of like the Raph statement above of '...considering the nice tools other chars have at their disposal [it's only fair Tira gets some more]'
Click to expand...


I gotta disagree with you on Raph. I think Raph is near perfect. The prep stance is ridic, Infact I think they should nerf it even more. I dont think raph needs wall combos but I do agree that maybe some form of higher combo capabilities could be given.

Tira I def get.

1. Mina- get rid of the ridic soul gauge damage and give her some more effective strikes. Maybe a stance to mix things up

2. Rock- Take away a few throws and give him back some of his old offense that Ast isn't even using

3. Maxi- either make his auto GIs from his stances more effective, or give him some quick mix up options coming out of the gaps in some of his stances. To counteract that take away a few of his stuns.

4. Ast- give him either a move that evades back to create more space, or make his 8way run a bit faster to make it so others cant have so much success with high frame spam. To counter this maybe slow the knee up a bit.

5. Zax- I dont play him, but he just seems like a weak character and is easy to beat unless you are playing a beast or a spammer. Maybe give him a more dammaging combo capability and conversly limit his RO ability a bit.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

give mi-na one one of kiliks decent moves, seong style asura please, or a more usable auto gi.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

feeqmatic said:
I gotta disagree with you on Raph. I think Raph is near perfect. The prep stance is ridic, Infact I think they should nerf it even more. I dont think raph needs wall combos but I do agree that maybe some form of higher combo capabilities could be given.

1. Mina- get rid of the ridic soul gauge damage and give her some more effective strikes. Maybe a stance to mix things up
Click to expand...

You know, I'm getting the feeling that you use 8wayrun instead of step.... Otherwise, you wouldn't be saying that prep is "ridic."
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Dullyanna said:
You know, I'm getting the feeling that you use 8wayrun instead of step.... Otherwise, you wouldn't be saying that prep is "ridic."
Click to expand...

I guess Im so used to trying to step with Ast so I dont see much of a difference. In fact I realize more and more that playing with Ast has made my play with other faster charactes less effective because I do less and less sidesteping...

Still the preperation can be excellent it just needs to be set up properly, to me that is balanced
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Funny how pretty much every real Raph user feels differently from you about Prep. I wonder if they're on to something?
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

when I talk about prep I tend to be thinking of the SEA/SEB/VE transitions from it as part of it...so I think prep is really good. I actually think raph is really good but in any case...

maxi:
- like I posted on the maxi forum, Maxi's B+KBBBA needs to be easy to do. normal version is like JFs despite the fact that there's a JF version anyway

zas:
- Zas needs more damage, on almost everything. both front throws should do 50-55 damage. increase 2K damage from 10 to 12-14. 4K, 3B, CH44A/CH6B+K JF combos, and a variety of other moves should have damage increased
- he needs more block safety. BB4 being unsafe is fine but it should be safer by a couple frames. 3AB, 66A, and several other moves could use some increased safety as well.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Dullyanna said:
Funny how pretty much every real Raph user feels differently from you about Prep. I wonder if they're on to something?
Click to expand...

IDK.

Maybe were talking about the difference between the Uber pros and the more casual high level players like myself. I've played a few very good Raph's who were able to use prep very effectively.

Maybe its becuase Ast has such a slow sidestep that I dont punish it the way I guess you have experienced it being punished. I know that the 6B out of prep can be ducked high, but online there is pretty much nothing you can throw in that wont get you poked with one of the hits.

Prep allows you to

Stun
Dodge left/right
autoDodge back
Techduck High attacks
poke low
Chain several attacks
Chain to other stances
Atack both plains
Throw...

I really dont know how useless it could be with all of those attributes. But then again I only casually use Raph.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Honestly I think raph is fine he just needs a better RO and wall game but hes good overall I use him, he's fine.

I Think Nm needs a bit more better moves or at least another stance or something, he gets a bit too predictable and he not that much of a safe character, feel free to disagree.

BTW I think Talim is fine her mixup game is pretty good.

Mina, she is so underused, but what the guy said about she needing some of kilik's moves I agree with that I think Kilik is to strong way 2 much spacing.

Also tone down Ivy i never knew a woman with a whip could be that dangerous
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

On a separate note...:

HolyForce said:
2. Talim

Even though I don't play her [ever], I believe she has some of the worst crap in the game to work with.
Click to expand...

I Disagree! Entirely! :x
Take the time to play her, and I think you'll change your mind. Of course, that's just my (very biased) opinion.

Or just try her once and spam:
:4::B:+:K:,:A:+:B:, :4::B:+:K:,:A:+:B:, :4::B:+:K:,:A:+:B:
:P
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Tiamat said:
maxi:
- like I posted on the maxi forum, Maxi's B+KBBBA needs to be easy to do. normal version is like JFs despite the fact that there's a JF version anyway
Click to expand...

That's a sensible thing to do, but I don't think it will help Maxi much. Not only because the non-JF version is only 50 damage, but because the move is not reliable. Even the JF is plagued by seemingly random whiffs, and it seems to happen more often when you don't nail the JF.

I think Maxi just needs more cancels. AAg, BBg, maybe even some for stance moves. They would really improve his mind games, and safety.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

i think its fairly well understood that yoshi can put foot to ass but i think some of his moves don't do enough damage considering how much damage kilik and sigg do in one hit


oh and rock too. i curb stomp with him but that is only because nobody knows my moves and that advantage probly would go away if i entered a turny
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

I wish people would use Rock against me more often, fighting his ass is entertaining.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

i think Raph is fine sure alot of his moves are steppable but if people step then use his anti step moves more thats what i do. I dont really feel like any character needs to be fixed up less for Zas but thats just my opinion.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

I agree then need to buff up Seung Mina. Having a Seung Mina type Asura's dance would be a nice start. She doesn't even seem like a flowing type character. She seems less combo type and more just pure SG damage, which doesn't work all the time.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

I dont think SC4 should head in the direction where every char has the exact same strengths .. ie I understand and accept that raph has
1)Bottom 3 RO game
2)Bottom 3 Wall game
3)Bottom 3 Wake up
4)bottom 10 combo damage
But i just think that his Anti-side step should not be non-existant, but it should be high-risk, high reward type.
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

Kvasir said:
That's a sensible thing to do, but I don't think it will help Maxi much. Not only because the non-JF version is only 50 damage, but because the move is not reliable. Even the JF is plagued by seemingly random whiffs, and it seems to happen more often when you don't nail the JF.

I think Maxi just needs more cancels. AAg, BBg, maybe even some for stance moves. They would really improve his mind games, and safety.
Click to expand...

i19 mid for 50 dmg
no worse than -6 on guard, CF in 13 blocks

B+K is 2 hits so you can hit confirm and stop there if it's blocked. It's insanely safe on guard and has decent SG dmg. As it is maxi CANNOT get even 40 damage from a normal hit mid until i25. IMO this would be a huge upgrade and might be enough to bump him to mid tier if they just made this move easy to do

EVA:
characters aren't predictable, only players
 
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur

I think NM is fine as he is, what they could do is to make some of his less useful moves... useful. ie: 2 B+K, slow and shitty range. or his 44K drop kick (its so high, linear, slow, tech jumps).

Rock needs some buffs, he's just.. idk.. so slow, he needs more combos and maybe make his ground grabs harder to break
 
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