Nationals: What Went Right/Wrong

[Jaxel]

Now... lets do some ACTUAL calculations... these numbers are based on the announcement threads for each event. If an event didn't have a price listed anywhere in the thread, I assumed it was $10 to give the benefit of the doubt.

Toronto Ontario January 2009 Regional 		19 people - $10 - $190
New Jersey January 2009 Regional 		46 people - $20 - $920
Madison Wisconsin February 2009 Regional 	24 people - $20 - $480
Northern California February 2009 Regional 	34 people - $20 - $680
Southern California February 2009 Regional 	22 people - $20 - $440
Massachusets February 2009 Regional 		27 people - $20 - $520
North Carolina February 2009 Regional 		10 people - $20 - $200
Mexico March 2009 Regional 			12 people - $10 - $120
Oklahoma March 2009 Regional 			15 people - $20 - $300
Denver Colorado March 2009 Regional 		21 people - $20 - $420
Atlanta Georgia April 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Houston Texas April 2009 Regional 		32 people - $5? - $160
Dominican Republic May 2009 Regional 		26 people - $10 - $260
Chicago Illinois May 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Dallas Texas May 2009 Regional 			45 people - $5? - $225

This adds up to $5,555... IceColdEdge says in the Dallas Texas thread that he would cover the cost for his event, which I know he believed to be $400, so that COULD mean he threw in $175 of his own money; but once again, for the benefit of the doubt, I will not assume he did. So...

$5,555 + $1,000 (nvga) - $3,000 (tickets) = $3,555

$3,555 + $500 (onsite) = $4,055

Hard numbers. Irrefutable.

 

[YouAreFail]

My ticket cost $186.00

Also, I still haven't received my money from DFG. I assume Kura did, but I have no way of checking that because I haven't been able to contact him in Korea yet.

Also, also, how hard is it to make entrants sign a contract at the regional that states in the case of canceling on a ticket they then must reimburse the pot? Probably as hard as calling the 1st placer from each tourney after the event to see if they are planning to come and where they want to fly out of. You know, since we all gave our phone numbers and such before the tourney started. Poor Aris :( Poor (who ever STD was supposed to pass to) :(

Anyway, F NVGA, F Jaxel, F Chinga, F Hates (but in the good way, with lube, 'cause he's cute).

 

[Dahlsim]

Thank you from the NVGA

Man Wtf is going on in here quit complaining and jus play video games... 2nd year i think it went perfect. Way to go NVGA i love you guys. .
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Everything we did this "2nd" year of nationals was to please you guys, nothing was maliciously intended. Yeah so things went wrong, so what. All we can do is try and fix it and make it better next year so we try and make it better. If you didnt have fun my bad. Sorry for not catering to your every need all can do is try. We'll be back next year hope to see you there.

Thanks for the positive feeback as well.

 

[Dezzz]

Now... lets do some ACTUAL calculations... these numbers are based on the announcement threads for each event. If an event didn't have a price listed anywhere in the thread, I assumed it was $10 to give the benefit of the doubt.

Toronto Ontario January 2009 Regional 		19 people - $10 - $190
New Jersey January 2009 Regional 		46 people - $20 - $920
Madison Wisconsin February 2009 Regional 	24 people - $20 - $480
Northern California February 2009 Regional 	34 people - $20 - $680
Southern California February 2009 Regional 	22 people - $20 - $440
Massachusets February 2009 Regional 		27 people - $20 - $520
North Carolina February 2009 Regional 		10 people - $20 - $200
Mexico March 2009 Regional 			12 people - $10 - $120
Oklahoma March 2009 Regional 			15 people - $20 - $300
Denver Colorado March 2009 Regional 		21 people - $20 - $420
Atlanta Georgia April 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Houston Texas April 2009 Regional 		32 people - $5? - $160
Dominican Republic May 2009 Regional 		26 people - $10 - $260
Chicago Illinois May 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Dallas Texas May 2009 Regional 			45 people - $5? - $225

This adds up to $5,555... IceColdEdge says in the Dallas Texas thread that he would cover the cost for his event, which I know he believed to be $400, so that COULD mean he threw in $175 of his own money; but once again, for the benefit of the doubt, I will not assume he did. So...

$5,555 + $1,000 (nvga) - $3,000 (tickets) = $3,555

$3,555 + $500 (onsite) = $4,055

Hard numbers. Irrefutable.

Dezzz Atlanta chapter,

Every chapter put in there own cash, i paid for my own plane ticket etc.... Im in the negative, lol could have went to Maimi or Vegas for cheaper. But i made it happen cause i love gaming, i love soulcal, and the friends ive made throughout this. Coming together as a community, thats the major complishment. when you get bent on this money thing we all Lose. come on get smart ppl lol peace and love, peace and love

 

[Jaxel]

Getting bent on this money thing? $2,000 disappear from the pot... and you expect people to get "let it go"? Yeah... lets not get all bent on Bernie Madof embezzling $40 billion... just let it go... Yes, when $2,000 disappears, we all lose... except DFG. If that kind of money disappears, SOMEONE must be held accountable. DFG was running nationals, and he is also the founder of NVGA... so he is responsible.

 

[IceColdEdge]

I didn't "Prove your point".... If that were the case... You wouldn't have had to create all kinds of context around it (some of it based on false assumptions by the way)

The overall amazing thing about this to me is that you are willing to go so hard negatively on a guy who a) you don't know and b) are not willing to try to understand... It's almost like you choose to be negative for some reason. I'm all for getting to the truth, discussing things in a constructive manner, etc.... But to choose to be so negative is interesting to me, especially from a community leader.

"In other words: "I don't care if people are complaining, I'm doing things my way". And you wonder why I think we were mistreated?"

1) If that's all you got out of that email he sent you, then I can see why you THINK you were mistreated.

2) Maybe you wouldn't feel negativity if you weren't spewing negativity all the time (i.e. It's hard to expect people to respond to requests for things like brackets, for example, if you have just spent the last week or so calling them a thief/stupid etc. etc.)

- I.C.E.

 

[Dezzz]

Getting bent on this money thing? $2,000 disappear from the pot... and you expect people to get "let it go"? Yeah... lets not get all bent on Bernie Madof embezzling $40 billion... just let it go... Yes, when $2,000 disappears, we all lose... except DFG. If that kind of money disappears, SOMEONE must be held accountable. DFG was running nationals, and he is also the founder of NVGA... so he is responsible.

okok lol where do you think the money went lol? come out and say it

 

[Jaxel]

okok lol where do you think the money went lol? come out and say it

I think DFG used it to aleviate his mismanaged costs for running Supercon. Nori and several others have already stated that DFG lost money for running this event; and with the way DFG has been handling things, I actually believe that could happen. So DFG lost money running SUPERCON; if Nationals wasn't there, and DFG wasn't able to skim off the top, he would have lost even more.

 

[Dezzz]

I think DFG used it to aleviate his mismanaged costs for running Supercon. Nori and several others have already stated that DFG lost money for running this event; and with the way DFG has been handling things, I actually believe that could happen. So DFG lost money running SUPERCON; if Nationals wasn't there, and DFG wasn't able to skim off the top, he would have lost even more.

Wtf omg skim!! lol "lost" as in dropped lmao!! walking around just dropping money lol.... skim as in like stole, as in crook, a liar, and since i hang around him, bird of feather flock together, so its like you calling me the same. Man up lol dont beat round the bush you're basically calling "Greg" of all people a thief... lmao do you even know this MAN

 

[ChaCha]

I don't think anyone is accusing DFG of pocketing money(ok... maybe jaxel), I think people would just like details to make sure the money was misappropriated or spent on stuff that wasn't FOR nationals and the players.

Since I was a part of Nationals from the beginning, I planned to make a post in which I touched on a lot of points that I felt went right and wrong. But my timetable this week will not allow it.

I just want to say that NVGA slowly changed a lot of details that needed to stay what they were, and in the end it felt like Nats was just being used to get more people to Supercon, than as a standalone event that was special. It felt like a sideshow and it was. A lot of people blame Evo and all that for scheduling right before Nats. But we ALL KNEW when evo was, and nats WAS supposed to be held in April or June, not July, that was one of many changes that really went south for nationals.

Ice mentioned you all could of done better with communication, lol, ain't that the truth. The communication for the planning and changes was horrid. But in the end, DFG kept on telling me he couldn't talk or email because he was "too busy" and if you're "too busy" to run shit right, then possibly you should get help or NOT run an event (when he could talk it was always on his timetable, not anything convenient). He also stated that the original plan to raise money for the $4k pot was not needed, as he had 'many sponsors' lined up to help promote and fund the event. Whatever happened to that?

A lot of questions should be answered. I don't wanna attack NVGA or anyone else, I would just like clarification (as many do). Its not like you guys communicated with any of us involved that weren't nvga'ers. That is where the problem started.

I can go back and start digging up emails (hundreds of them) if you want, but I really want to avoid a long winded post.

cha cha

 

[Dezzz]

a bunch of pointing fingers: see there's a thread about what went wrong at Nationals, How about you start thread about a solution, then see what people have to say.

 

[Jesus]

a bunch of pointing fingers: see there's a thread about what went wrong at Nationals, How about you start thread about a solution, then see what people have to say.

As much as I agree with you, this is still too heated of a discussion to open a solutions thread. The heat from this thread would carry over and taint the solutions. This thread was origanlly posted by Hates in an attempt to begin discussions on what needs fixed(IMO), however a large number of people with strong opinions have showed up and voiced their opinions.

 

[Dezzz]

As much as I agree with you, this is still too heated of a discussion to open a solutions thread. The heat from this thread would carry over and taint the solutions. This thread was origanlly posted by Hates in an attempt to begin discussions on what needs fixed(IMO), however a large number of people with strong opinions have showed up and voiced their opinions.

Thank Jesus but is name is Hates lol he had nogood intention by making this thread, lol i think got 2 pieced in NAts lol so i can see why he mad lol he had an early night lol and i think positive thread is in need "Jesus" dont you agree lol....wwjd

 

[CO_hates_DFG]

How about you tell them the fact that you didn't pay for the venue. Westwood did.

Also, if you care so much about the community how come you made the individuals who volunteered, the ones who wanted to help out, PAY THE VENUE FEE? You charged them $20 man. That's some cold blooded ish.

Or the fact that you said a few hours before the HDR finals that you would give out $250 as a pot bonus only to change your mind and that nope! It's not gonna happen.

You promised 4k to the winner of SC and that didn't happen either. Where the hell did all that money go?

This is nothing new for DFG. I'm sorry that you guys had to experience this and hope that you don't hold all of CO in the same light.

 

[Jaxel]

CO_hates_DFG... Don't worry, we don't hold anything against CO. In fact, I don't hold anything against the chapter leaders of NVGA either; they probably don't even know themselves what DFG was doing. However, I hold DFG accountable and as he is the leader of NVGA, and this event was run by the NVGA, that means that the NVGA name will be tainted as well. If we do run a nationals next year, it will not be run by NVGA since I don't want to give that kind of power to DFG. I have nothing against chapter leaders of the NVGA running regionals; generally, they all did a great job and I wouldn't mind asking them for their support in the future.

I can try to say these things with no malice... DFG simply needs to answer for the accusations leveled against him. I've done the calculations, I've shown the actual math. However, it appears to me that the people who are defending DFG are simply calling me out on attacking DFG, since they don't have a proper way to address my allegations against DFG. DFG also charged a venue fee to non-national players, for a venue that CO_hates_DFG is claiming he didn't even have to pay for. So, to where did our nationals funds disappear? Not to mention, constant changes were made along the way for the sole purpose of pushing this "Supercon" agenda.

I've been reading the EFL forums and I'm seeing a LONG running history of DFG conning money out of players in Colorado. Even though the founders of EFL won't admit it, the entire foundation of EFL seems to be for the sole purpose of creating a competing organization against DFG's C3. It also appears that for many years, the EFL has boycotted C3 events because of this; and Supercon was the first time ever that EFL has partnered with C3 in an effort to "bury the hatchet" if it were. And now the anti-DFG sentiment in EFL has returned.

Toronto Ontario January 2009 Regional 		19 people - $10 - $190
New Jersey January 2009 Regional 		46 people - $20 - $920
Madison Wisconsin February 2009 Regional 	24 people - $20 - $480
Northern California February 2009 Regional 	34 people - $20 - $680
Southern California February 2009 Regional 	22 people - $20 - $440
Massachusets February 2009 Regional 		27 people - $20 - $520
North Carolina February 2009 Regional 		10 people - $20 - $200
Mexico March 2009 Regional 			12 people - $10 - $120
Oklahoma March 2009 Regional 			15 people - $20 - $300
Denver Colorado March 2009 Regional 		21 people - $20 - $420
Atlanta Georgia April 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Houston Texas April 2009 Regional 		32 people - $5? - $160
Dominican Republic May 2009 Regional 		26 people - $10 - $260
Chicago Illinois May 2009 Regional 		16 people - $20 - $320
Dallas Texas May 2009 Regional 			45 people - $5? - $225

$5,555 + $1,000 (nvga) + $500 (onsite) - $3,000 (tickets) = $4,055 for the pot

Somehow the pot was only $2,000

 

[Dezzz]

How about you tell them the fact that you didn't pay for the venue. Westwood did.

Also, if you care so much about the community how come you made the individuals who volunteered, the ones who wanted to help out, PAY THE VENUE FEE? You charged them $20 man. That's some cold blooded ish.

Or the fact that you said a few hours before the HDR finals that you would give out $250 as a pot bonus only to change your mind and that nope! It's not gonna happen.

You promised 4k to the winner of SC and that didn't happen either. Where the hell did all that money go?

This is nothing new for DFG. I'm sorry that you guys had to experience this and hope that you don't hold all of CO in the same light.

Come On Co_hates_dfg is that nessecary, i know all yall form the EFL.

 

[Jaxel]

Come On Co_hates_dfg is that nessecary, i know all yall form the EFL.

CO_hates_DFG is only looking after the Colorado community. Someone in this thread previously stated "I will never go to a Colorado event again" and players within the Extra Fresh League were uspet by that. The EFL wanted to point out that DFG is NOT the majority of the CO community and they won't want to suffer the consequences of his actions; DFG has even been banned from the EFL forums.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

If that's true, why would Westwood drop money for something like this? I mean this isn't something education related.

 

[Marginal]

If that's true, why would Westwood drop money for something like this? I mean this isn't something education related.

The Supercon announcements did have Westwood as a sponsor.

http://www.nvgaonline.com/SuperCon/sponsors.php

 

[The_Dragon]

Yes, and just to momentarily address the comment Greg made about only "certain players" having issues with his tournaments; Which section of players is that, the ones with experience? Greg do you remember when I first came here and I made threads demanding other people come to your tournament, and how I didn't understand why people would boycott your tournaments?

Then I got the back story of why and how they weren't showing up, and I still said they should let it go, you would learn from those mistakes and do a better job with tournaments in the future. Man, do I look back on that as a erroneous assumption. I then got to experience for myself the joys of an entire Third Strike tournament being reset during grand finals since a routine top three placer had not been entered in the bracket.

You showing up three hours late for your own tournament 3 hours late with the equipment needed for the tournament making everyone wait around in a small game store wondering if the tournament was even going to happen. Charging venue fees to people who showed up after work to play some casuals with friends for a couple hours, or peoples casual friends who just came to see what the tournament scene was like.

People having to play others they play on a daily or weekly basis in the first round of your tournaments due to absolute zero bracket organization, and questionable prices and payouts for your tournaments in general. And the best part of it all, the part that amazes me, is you still, after endless criticism, after people flat out saying that you rip people off and that they would boycott your tournaments, you still haven't changed.

You won't ever admit when you make a mistake, you won't ever own up to it, so you never change and you never fix anything because to you, you did everything right. How can you learn from a mistake when you won't admit it as a mistake in the first place? It's the only logical explanation I have for the fact that all of these problems still occur at your tournaments after years of them being present.

Greg, do you understand what people say after a good tournament? Maybe if you would pay attention or show up to tournaments not run by you, you would get it. Check the comments after Final Round, Midwest Challenge, Evolution, or Seasons Beatings for some real positive feedback like "can't wait for next year" "already saving my money" etc. People express their appreciation for an event the most by talking about how they want to do it again, and have you seen anyone in this thread, or elsewhere, do so?

And some of those above tournaments have had problems over the years, which people complained about. Guess what those tournament organizers did? Honestly and sincerely apologized for the mishaps, explained in clear terms what went wrong and what they were going to do to fix it in the future. You had such a great chance with this tournament to rebuild all the bridges you've shattered over the years, but instead you lit flames on the remnants to incinerate what good faith people had left in you, and justified every person who insisted we should never go to your tournaments in the first place.


You talk about people who are critical of you as if they're villains and play that same tired line of how you're the CO community, you're not going anywhere, and taking issue with you only hurts it all. Give me a break, do you not see people saying they're not coming back to Denver? How are you in any way good for this community? We'd be better off if you just stopped running tournaments altogether since you won't ever listen to anyone aside from yourself. Help the community? All you do is create strife, factions, and bad reputation.


PS

By the way, Chinga, perhaps I am an inexperienced tournament organizer, but as such, I would adhere to what I view as the fundamentals of running a good tournament based on what I've seen over the years, such as showing up on time, organizing brackets efficiently, and considering the players needs as top priorities. You know, like you did when I watched you run tournaments? Too bad Greg doesn't do that.

I understand you're trying to defend a friend here, but Greg brought this on himself.