The battle of big swords

No, it's a bad matchup for Nightmare. Both Nightmare and Siegfried have bad matchups against the sisters, maybe worse against Sophitia because of moves that either give me a free AA, stab, TAS B, or a rapedick. Plus she can STC.

But in the end, it comes down to player and how skilled they are along with how knowledgeable they are on the matchup, and in a tournament environment, how well they are able to apply that skill and knowledge under pressure and adapt to what their opponent is doing.

As to why you don't see any good Nightmares in the US is because the great players use better characters because they want to win.
 
Well since I have played this version of NM from the beginning, and adopted very distinctive playstyles...I have enough knowledge to say...

Nightmare is better than Siegfried.
Why.
Nightmare's ringout game is vastly more impressive.
His throw setups are almost too constant, which also induces random ducking.
His damage output can border on the absurd.

However what really separates the two characters is the fact that NM, can escape most of Sieg's cute mixups, with either B+K or 22AB and both options lead to incredible combos.

Also NM vs Cass is in nightmare's favor, when Lau was active way back when, me I am sure Tiamat as well all came to the same conclusion.

Cass isn't Sophie. B+K alone can shut her down pretty effectively. This match-up is simply about Cassy's lack of range.

And Engared we have plenty of good NM players, who simply just don't travel in the US.
 
Malice said:
No, it's a bad matchup for Nightmare. Both Nightmare and Siegfried have bad matchups against the sisters, maybe worse against Sophitia because of moves that either give me a free AA, stab, TAS B, or a rapedick. Plus she can STC.

But in the end, it comes down to player and how skilled they are along with how knowledgeable they are on the matchup, and in a tournament environment, how well they are able to apply that skill and knowledge under pressure and adapt to what their opponent is doing.

As to why you don't see any good Nightmares in the US is because the great players use better characters because they want to win.
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Oh well. If thats what you think. Hes not a bad character by any stretch of the imagination. I think Partisan would agree with me (as someone whos currently playing a ton of NM). I think that the great U.S. players are generally more tier concerned than their foreign counterparts, not just because they want to win. They aren't willing to put in the work to make a lower tiered character get up to that standard.

The match against Sophie is 5:5 due to her being less linear and able to close distance better. But the sisters don't really scare me as much as Taki or X. Those i believe are the only real 6:4 matchs (maybe voldo but ive never played against a good one) which NM has.
 
Malice said:
No, it's a bad matchup for Nightmare. Both Nightmare and Siegfried have bad matchups against the sisters, maybe worse against Sophitia because of moves that either give me a free AA, stab, TAS B, or a rapedick. Plus she can STC.

But in the end, it comes down to player and how skilled they are along with how knowledgeable they are on the matchup, and in a tournament environment, how well they are able to apply that skill and knowledge under pressure and adapt to what their opponent is doing.

As to why you don't see any good Nightmares in the US is because the great players use better characters because they want to win.
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Tell that to Oofmatic. XD
 
Malice said:
No, it's a bad matchup for Nightmare. Both Nightmare and Siegfried have bad matchups against the sisters, maybe worse against Sophitia because of moves that either give me a free AA, stab, TAS B, or a rapedick. Plus she can STC.

But in the end, it comes down to player and how skilled they are along with how knowledgeable they are on the matchup, and in a tournament environment, how well they are able to apply that skill and knowledge under pressure and adapt to what their opponent is doing.

As to why you don't see any good Nightmares in the US is because the great players use better characters because they want to win.
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Just wanting to make a shout out for MRCOOLGUY17. A good nightmare player who lives in the US.
 
Engared said:
The match against Sophie is 5:5 due to her being less linear and able to close distance better.
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It's gotta be at least little better than even, in Sophie's favor. The spacing you normally get when doing B+K evades is around where you can get hit by a tipped TAS B, making that almost too risky to ever attempt. Sophie has a lot of TC options as well, which pressures NM into using unsafe mids or ones that have bad frames even on CH. Safest TC interrupt is probably 1K, as there's no reason to duck and it's +2 on CH. But if she does nothing he's crouching at -4.
He's limited to stepping if he wants to get out of trouble. Sophie can do whatever she wants and still be in ok position. AA and 66A stop his step like anyone else but after blocking 66A (or TAS B for that matter) and being at +10 (+12 for TAS B) NM gets a free mixup but all he has for mixup options are shitty mid, unsafe mid, 1K, and throw.

Idk. It just seems like his movement options, which can be so good against a lot of characters, can get punished really hard by Sophie, he has to take risks in order to stop Sophie from taking risks at any time. But he does much better than Siegfried, that's for sure.

Nightmare is overall a better character than Siegfried because Nightmare can move around so much faster, and can whiff punish way better. Siegfried has lots of gimmick potential, but then again so does Nightmare. But NM doesn't fall apart like Siegfried does when you know what to do.
 
MammothMan said:
Well the problem is, Sophie is like that...to almost anyone.
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Agreed. Sophie is just too damn good. There's isn't any other character with that kind of raw damage with the little amount of effort required to win. I think the thing I hate the most about her is her simplicity. She can school you with just 4 or 5 different moves, and sometimes the same move over and over. Sophie= least amount of thought for most amount of ass kicking. Sophitia is a character for a player who doesn't like to think.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
Agreed. Sophie is just too damn good. There's isn't any other character with that kind of raw damage with the little amount of effort required to win. I think the thing I hate the most about her is her simplicity. She can school you with just 4 or 5 different moves, and sometimes the same move over and over. Sophie= least amount of thought for most amount of ass kicking. Sophitia is a character for a player who doesn't like to think.
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LoL this statement is wrong in so many ways... Pretty sure sophy players have to think just as much as anyone!
 
I was referring more to how Voldo can school you with 4-5 moves, he doesn't even need his entire move set to beat you down.
 
Haha if you ask Red, I use 2A+B + cancels exclusively. I don't think most characters use anything close to their entire movesets. It's the same basic structure for each character no? You have interrupts, step catchers, mixup tools, frame traps, evasive moves etc. You really only need a few solid moves in each important category, and can in principle use the same setup over and over. Of course, if your opponents see the same setups over and over they will get better and better at guessing against them so there is a pay-off to varying. The better your opponent is at adjusting, the more variety pays off. That's why against a lot of players I use 2A+B so much, as long as they keep guessing poorly against it I don't see any reason to go to another similar setup (similar here = a pressure setup, like 4A, 44B, etc).

The thing is, the high tier characters have better tools, so they aren't as dependent on variety necessarily. So I think the whole "this character is braindead and only needs X" is largely correlated to tier. I mean, you guys have talked about Soph and Voldo, but I mean, come on, Amy? If you have 66B, 33B,3BA,2B+K, B+K, 6BB,236... It's the same mixup everytime. This works though because 66B/2B+K is such an awesome mixup, and B+K/3BA is such a good reverse mixup. She also has a very short move list. On the other hand Voldo has one of the longer move lists in the entire game. I would say in fact, if you are talking about the number of moves that COULD be used in a decently high level match, Voldo would be amongst the highest. Yoshi has a longer move list I believe, but a ton of his stuff is basically junk or impractical. Voldo has great setups you see once a match or never, because there are so many other good setups.

PS I must say though the damage on TAS B makes me shit myself whenever it hits me.
 
Trust me. It took me 15 minutes to figure out how to play Soph like the rest of them. She is easy, in fact god damn easy. after 15 minutes, she was almost as kick ass as my mains. And NO, I DO NOT have to think when I play her. I play super cheap/cheese ball and she wins ALL THE TIME. I stopped using her because it was no fun to play. Cass on the other hand does require at least a little bit of thinking.

As any of you have guessed, I have NO respect for SOPHIE.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
Trust me. It took me 15 minutes to figure out how to play Soph like the rest of them. She is easy, in fact god damn easy. after 15 minutes, she was almost as kick ass as my mains. And NO, I DO NOT have to think when I play her. I play super cheap/cheese ball and she wins ALL THE TIME. I stopped using her because it was no fun to play. Cass on the other hand does require at least a little bit of thinking.

As any of you have guessed, I have NO respect for SOPHIE.
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Ok this is obviously nothing but your opinion. You DO need to think to use Soph and she does not win "ALL THE TIME". Yes she is one of the easier characters to learn but she still requires time to master. She isn't overpowered either, otherwise she would have won more majors since SC4 came out. You really think it takes 15 Minutes to play Sophie like Ramon, Dina,and Belial?

I have to agree with you that she has 5-6 core tools though and If someone beats you with her its as simple as Lobo said : "In every match you go into it knowing exactly what 4 or 5 tools she will use to kill you, and then it still happens anyway. it is called getting out-played, son."
 
The reason Sophie players aren't overwhelming in tourneys is probably because many people know how to fight against her. I exagerated when I said "win all the time". No I cannot play her like DINO and I don't ever intend to. But like I said B4, it took me 15 minutes to get her almost to the level where my other characters are at. How long does it take to master 4-5 moves? Shouldn't take that long.

I guess I just prefer characters with more variety, even if they're "lower tier". That's why I prefer CASS over Sophie. Sure, she may not be "as good", but her style compliments my play style more. I think CASS'S move list is about as long as Sophie, but she requires more of her tools to win IMO. Other CASS players seem to use utilize a large percentage of her move list as well.
 
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