1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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E.C. said:
I just don't see Mina as a solid mid. People say that's she's underplayed and thus underrated, but I'm willing to say that the people who think that she's a solid mid don't have opps that are familiar with her and overrate her.

She's low mid (if not low). And certainly not top tier.
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I was a big fan of Mina for the first 3 SC's, and she's a lot different this time around. Doesn't seem to have any inturrupts, good lows, pokes. You have to play her much different. For me, I just can't adapt to the changes to make her competent. She's changed too much for me to even try to play her the way I used to. I'd like to see a competent Mina player. Maybe my man Lobo could do it.
 
I'll admit Mina lacks tools in some areas, that's why she isn't better. However, if you play her the way she's supposed to be played, and can execute that gameplan well, she's able to hold her own against most of the cast, with a couple of exceptions.

She's an imbalanced character that evens out to mid in the end.
 
WareEaglesDare said:
I don't play online by choice
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False. There's always a choice, it just depends on how much you want to play good comp. You're in VA and don't even play with the VA players, you won't learn anything from playing Link at your current skill level.

Rico said:
Idunno. When does it become appropriate to create Later Impression of Tiers... thread?
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After a few majors. SB3 and NEC coming up on the EC, I'm sure some elsewhere. I know that wasn't directed at me, I'm butting in anyways lol.

On a side note, for as top tier as Sophie supposedly is, has anyone won with her yet in SC4? Just curious, nothing out this way that I'm aware of.
 
Lol @ people saying SCIV is as balanced as VF. I'll wait until I see how people rank in majors to call something that significant.
 
I wouldn't so to say it has VF balance, but it's definitely more balanced then most fighters- which is a sad indictment of most other fighters.

Americans love imbalanced games anyways, look at what the EVO crowd plays.

As for me, I'm hoping to get some offline SC in this weekend, even if it's between two work mid-shifts so you guys would see Zombie Mina. Zombie+ low tier= recipe for 0-2 embarassment.
 
Hey, quick tangent. Not to start a discussion or anything, but how does my main dude in Tekken, Hwoarang rank in III and/or IV? Was he one of the better characters or was I just decent with him?
 
He was a beast (read: scrub-killer) in 3 and Tag... didn't really play 4, so I can't say anything about that... except that Jin and Steve were freaking busted. It could be said that Steve was still busted in 5 what with 60+% monkey combos and infinites.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
False. There's always a choice, it just depends on how much you want to play good comp. You're in VA and don't even play with the VA players, you won't learn anything from playing Link at your current skill level.
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You're right, I could go to the local mall and be like "Hey you kids wanna come to my place and play video games?" All jokes aside, I am trying to hook up with VA players, but not too easy. I have a Thread up for my area (NOVA) and there are maybe 4 people that have posted on there once or twice. The other thread with VA included is a Tri-State thread with the majority being from MD and having their regular events on Wednesdays. Being a Marine in Quantico, it would prove quite difficult to drive North, through DC during rush hour to Baltimore (still rush hour (rush hour around here is like 4 hours)) and get there before 6 when I get out of work at 430, get some good games in and get back in time to wake up for a run at 5 AM. So, maybe I don't want it THAT bad. Also, I learn something from anyone that knows something I don't. I won't exclude Link from that because he's bowed to as Calibur ledgend.

Edit:Sorry about the seemingly hostile tone.
 
arstal said:
I'll admit Mina lacks tools in some areas, that's why she isn't better. However, if you play her the way she's supposed to be played, and can execute that gameplan well, she's able to hold her own against most of the cast, with a couple of exceptions.
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She has more than a couple exceptions. All the top tiers give her a hard time. Sisters get 236B after blocking almost anything she does. They are THE worst of her matchups. Cervy's iGDR is also unkind to her block safety, plus he generally outclasses her in damage. Ivy beats her at all ranges. Mitsu, Voldo, and Lizzy put far too much pressure upclose.

To be honest, the only good/even matchups she has are Talim, Maxi, Rock, Raph, and Tira. They don't have the pressure and/or damage to completely overwhelm Mina or effectively punish her.
 
Yeah, I'm curious what you use for mina to be effective? How do you keep people out, and what do you do when they get in? Not saying it can't be done, but I gotta know what you're using to base your judgements off.
 
I stick to simple stuff like AAB, 1B series, B series, kicks. I only take risks on okizeme. I also try to turtle read and react a lot a lot, see what they like to do. My goal is usually to land blows to get them red in guard, to open up the rest of my game.

It's not overly complex, but it requires good yomi. I like using a mix of throws, lows, 44A+B and 4KB on wakeup as well.

If they start GI'ing it gets more complicated, but then I'll do things like not finish strings, throw 6B+K in, 44AB/66AB to mess up timing.

Other moves I use situationally, such as 8A+B, B+K. I don't use 2A+B much unlike some people, that's mostly an oki anti-roll move to get them to block 44AB. I'm not a top player, but I'd say I do decently (I've entered a few tournies with Mina and done decently)

As for Sisters, yeah it's a bad matchup, but not unwinnable. You just gotta space perfectly and play defensively. I use a lot of unfinished strings to make them reluctant to throw out that 236 crap.
 
VF5 is not balanced. You got characters like Wolf that can grab you and you get thrown out the ring and if you escape it you will do a stupid get out break animation and still fall out the ring where does balance play in that?!
 
Early Impression of Teirs...

KoshTheKoala said:
I think it's too early to get exact numbers in, but I think we can place people into like:

Tier 0 (god)
Ivy (with infinite)

Tier 1 (high)
Amy
Raph
Sophi
Cass
Cervantes

Tier 2 (medium high)
Siegfried
Yoshimitsu
Mitsurugi

Tier 3 (medium)
Taki
Nightmare
Lizardman
Kilik

Tier 4 (medium low)
Vader
Zasalamel
Astaroth
Maxi

Tier 5 (low)
The Apprentice

Tier 6 (shit)
Rock

I'm not familiar enough with the rest of the characters
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i can see mistu i tier 2
 
Big_Majin said:
VF5 is not balanced. You got characters like Wolf that can grab you and you get thrown out the ring and if you escape it you will do a stupid get out break animation and still fall out the ring where does balance play in that?!
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VF balance assumes that you're a jap robot that can ETEG with bare fucking minimum 2 throw breaks per. But within that mechanical, input intensive style of game, it's extremely balanced.
 
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