Official Ban Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShenOu said:
Thanks for the feedback thus far, other thread updated accordingly.
Click to expand...
Hey, I just noticed your tourney-status thread now. I can accept Algol being legal if the decision is based solely on how game-breaking he is. Otherwise, I disapprove of him for reasons of blandness because, IMO, he severely limits the Soulcalibur play we've come to know more than he does add to it (for players overall). If this sounds reasonable then try a new voting poll with that in mind for the reader... it won't be vague at all.
 
Vincent said:
Yes, tournament rules vary for the same game from country to country. In SC3, Hwang was banned in France just because he was a bonus character. Then there's Japan, they still play single elimination. See where I'm going? Promoting the game is a relative thing. You don't have to bend over backwards to appeal to more people, especially if the majority of players running the community don't want it.
Click to expand...

Sure, tourney rules vary from country to country, however here in the US and CA, we have a history of not banning something simply because we want it to be banned. There should be legitimate gameplay reasons to ban something before throwing out a ban. Didnt abyss get banned at one point, and then that was rescinded because it was generally agreed that it was fairly silly to ban him, and that he wasnt very good anyway?

Also, single elimination in japan has nothing to do with banning , its apples and oranges. It is an accurate example of regional differences, but has no bearing on this particular topic, due to the fact it is about tourney format and not any particular game in specific. ive been to round robin tourney's. whats the point here.

While it is also very true you don't have to bend over backwards to appeal to more people, you also don't have to try and remove content from competitive play simply because you don't 'like' it. Many people may, and it seems to be the case, DO like it. Why cut off someone else's enjoyment?

I happen to really enjoy playing as and playing against Algol. I think that he is a breath of fresh air in a series that prides itself as being different from other 3d fighters by quite a bit, and thats quite a feat.
 
BLDave said:
you also don't have to try and remove content from competitive play simply because you don't 'like' it.
Click to expand...
This isn't about not liking him because he's gimmicky. That'd be childish. I stated that Algol is potentially limiting styles of play, hence the blandness. There's no reason for him to ever become aggressive (even if he isn't game-breaking), and that in itself is way too stupid for any character. Everyone else can be made to work both ways, at least.
 
Vincent said:
This isn't about not liking him because he's gimmicky. That'd be childish. I stated that Algol is potentially limiting styles of play, hence the blandness. There's no reason for him to ever become aggressive (even if he isn't game-breaking), and that in itself is way too stupid for any character. Everyone else can be made to work both ways, at least.
Click to expand...

Sophie limits an unsafe style of play, ban?

Kilik works best as a defensive space based character, too bland?

Algol cant be aggressive?
 
I thought that would be the response, haha. To clarify though, I'm talking about how things will pan out in the match. It can potentially stay the same way for everybody at all times. I've just never come across this in a Calibur game where one character can never be discouraged from doing something (especially when it seems random).

But I'm not stupid, I know Algol won't be banned for such a thing. Just interested if anyone felt what I did. Discussion is over on my part. Thanks!
 
Vincent said:
I thought that would be the response, haha. To clarify though, I'm talking about how things will pan out in the match. It can potentially stay the same way for everybody at all times. I've just never come across this in a Calibur game where one character can never be discouraged from doing something (especially when it seems random).

But I'm not stupid, I know Algol won't be banned for such a thing. Just interested if anyone felt what I did. Discussion is over on my part. Thanks!
Click to expand...

i hear you, but trust me, he can be discouraged. Kilik can 2A+K under the bubbles, ivy can SW 6B, i mean thats who i play so thats who i can say, but i imaging sophie can twin angel step under them, voldo can crawl or reverse crawl under them. I know Mina can FC 1B under them.

no hard feelings :) i can see your points though, just dont agree :)
 
Algol shouldn't be ban base on a few reasons.

Firstly, Even though he is a Boss Character, he is still a standard playing character like any other. Unlike back in SC3/2/1, where there is the existence of O'Rly, Charade and Edgemaster, these are characters that have random choice of weapons, and its not really fair since a tournament requires one person to have a standard character with one standard weapon. These 3 characters just don't fit the requirement of having a standard weapon/moveset. Even though its give the opponent less disadvantage than the player who chose these random characters, it still do not fit the tourney requirements.

Algol on the other hand do not have any move changes every round, his weapons are the same through the whole round. Although he can be persistently irritating with his projectiles, but that is something we can all overcome soon enough.

What we should ban instead are bugs, glitches, infinite moves and things that destroys the harmony of a tourney.
 
Sadrabbit said:
You can go under his FC bubble and the bubble that hits the ground?
Click to expand...

not the angled down ones, however they can be spaced. Algol cannot fire fast enough to keep someone from 8wr-ing and teching under his bubbles. He has to rely on the double shot 4A+B, to hinder step and 8wr. Even 1 guard impact distrups his bubble game so much that almost anyone can get in on him
 
Well Vints pretty much summed up what I wanted to say in his first post in this thread. It seems no one has really bothered to address the points he's made there.

Bubbles allow Algol to force you into a very limited range of responses and almost all the risk is on your end, not his.

I'm not ready to call ban on him yet but I wish people would at least take his bubbles seriously.
 
you guys are fucking dumb... given practice and comprehension of the 3D plane the ability to parry them back nullifies most orb tactics except the use a slow orb at range and attack so that the orb impacts after a different attack. I wish I recorded the match where I played phil with algol and he just started parrying everything back and start using his own fucking orb tactics from being able to parry mine. I mean you can vary the timing but you have plenty of time to react to the speed of them unless its close range where they are less of an issue.

Learn to deal with them and stop crying
 
I'm not for banning him...

But as far as juggle/combo damage wise goes is he overpowered? I'm not really familiar with SC prior to 4 so would having a 19frame mid that has a 90+ damage follow up overpowered? Even if unsafe. Then it just seems like he has a lot moves have 80-90 damage follow-ups.-shrug-
 
Update:

The Nationals committee is leaning towards Banning Algol. I don't entirely agree with it. But I do agree it will silence the whiners and we lose next to nothing for doing it (he will be unbanned in the future). If some player mains Algol for some reason, take this as your chance to switch mains. We will continue trying to educate people on his flaws, and hopefully get it overturned before 09.

People who are staunch defenders of keeping him, just let it lie for awhile. He's totally new, hard for a lot of people to get used to and it will just cause more complaints than it is worth. Keep playing him casually, and spread the knowledge about his weaknesses, because that is the only way to stop the future people from saying he's broke all over again in 09.

When they say, "he's too new & gimmicky I shouldn't have to learn to deal with that crazy/unenjoyable crap! Glad he is banned!".
Reply: "So say you didn't know Mitsurugi, and he kicked the crap out of you (unenjoyably), should we ban him too?"

The logic is ridiculous, but it's the reality we live in. Deal with it.

This is just for Regionals/Nationals, not any tournies run by anyone else so far.
 
Um, would it be possible to hear the National Committee's arguments made in favor of banning him?

It seems to me like more than 90% of the community is against banning him. Or am I wrong?
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
Update:

The Nationals committee is leaning towards Banning Algol. I don't entirely agree with it. But I do agree it will silence the whiners and we lose next to nothing for doing it (he will be unbanned in the future). If some player mains Algol for some reason, take this as your chance to switch mains. We will continue trying to educate people on his flaws, and hopefully get it overturned before 09.

People who are staunch defenders of keeping him, just let it lie for awhile. He's totally new, hard for a lot of people to get used to and it will just cause more complaints than it is worth. Keep playing him casually, and spread the knowledge about his weaknesses, because that is the only way to stop the future people from saying he's broke all over again in 09.

When they say, "he's too new & gimmicky I shouldn't have to learn to deal with that crazy/unenjoyable crap! Glad he is banned!".
Reply: "So say you didn't know Mitsurugi, and he kicked the crap out of you (unenjoyably), should we ban him too?"

The logic is ridiculous, but it's the reality we live in. Deal with it.

This is just for Regionals/Nationals, not any tournies run by anyone else so far.
Click to expand...

Won't the Regionals/Nationals look silly for hosting a tournament with rules different from the rest of the country/world?
 
Not really. It hasn't been passed yet, but I figured I'd give the community ammo at one last shot on changing other's minds.

<devil's advocate>
Who is going to play him at Regionals anyways, just curious? If he's easy to get around and learn, then why care if he's gone or not? It's not like the game loseses anything competatively by disallowing him. Top players are still going to use normal characters, the only one's who will use Algol will be ones hoping and praying to get by on gimmicks and not talent (so they say), which causes ill will and complaints, which we'd all love to avoid.

So whats the point for fighting to keep him in? Some kind of misplaced honor to represent every character in the game? Some kind of crazy mental directive to beat down Algol players and put them in their place?

In the end, he's a boss. People are used to the notion that bosses are banned in many competative fightters, so it's fine in their minds. What do we lose by disallowing him in tournies?


cha cha
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
So whats the point for fighting to keep him in? Some kind of misplaced honor to represent every character in the game? Some kind of crazy mental directive to beat down Algol players and put them in their place?

In the end, he's a boss. People are used to the notion that bosses are banned in many competative fightters, so it's fine in their minds. What do we lose by disallowing him in tournies?


cha cha
Click to expand...

First off: Nightmare, Siegfried, AND Algol are all boss characters in this game. So the boss character argument is pretty much null and void unless you support the banning of Sieg and Nightmare as well.

Secondly: What's lost from banning Algol? Obviously Algol players? Just because he's a new character, you're willing to ban him because his fanbase is small so there is no "big lose" from banning him? With that mindset, why not ban Hilde while your at it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom