Official Ban Discussion Thread

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I'm not banning anything. Those where obligatory questions being asked vicariously through me as a 'devil's advocate'.

thx.
 
dont forget cervy was a boss

I dont see how this fucking committee is seriously considering it without consulting the community first? Where the hell do they get off deciding who is ban worthy... Im sorry but I want to see THEIR reasoning for banning him so I can smash it to bits in a thread in the fucking NATIONALS RULES & DISCUSSION FORUM. Like why is a topic thats going to effect the whole community stuck in this forum thats not browsed by most of the community... its like the mod forum on CF.com where a few people were deciding the fate of the community except its in a back alley instead of a locked room
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
I'm not banning anything. Those where obligatory questions being asked vicariously through me as a 'devil's advocate'.

thx.
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I realize that as you did point it out in your post, el oh el. I just don't understand the logic behind banning a non-game breaking character. If this was a console exclusive issue like Vader and Yoda it would be easy to understand. I could understand if his bubbles were un-GIable and/or unblockable or if there was no way you could grab him (we all know who I'm refering to with this), but that isn't the case. I'll admit I got my ass handed to me when I fought against him with a human player, but that happens when I fight characters I'm not used to fighting on a regular basis.
 
Tim quit over dramatizing things. I am here discussing this am I not? Who is responsible for all of national's rules so far? The right decision will be made, but sometimes you will run into a set of rules that is out of your hands...

This isn't some secret conversation deciding fates of the game, it's just a discussion on what we will be banning, to put up on the site.

The way people overreact to this shit is hilarious. If WCG adopts SC4 and then bans Algol without consulting anyone from the community, do you think angry flames on a nobody SC forum are going to sway their minds?

Just be ready for it, because it can and probably WILL happen, at some point.

cha cha
 
Under the Faq for the Regionals Dancing Fighter G talks about glitches shouldn't be allowed in the regionals because they weren't intended to be in the game. After reading this why would be ban things that were obviously suppose to be in the game like Algol? Hasn't the precedent already been established?

Also lets ban Cervy considering he was a boss. Wasn't Nightmare a boss at some point too? Lets ban him also.
 
Kinda beating a dead horse now...

Anyways, Nationals update: those of us who cared, stepped up and made sure Algol was not banned. *victory dance*. I will post more when rules are finalized.

cha cha
 
BLDave said:
i hear you, but trust me, he can be discouraged. Kilik can 2A+K under the bubbles, ivy can SW 6B, i mean thats who i play so thats who i can say, but i imaging sophie can twin angel step under them, voldo can crawl or reverse crawl under them. I know Mina can FC 1B under them.
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Thank you for this information. The thought of super tech crouch moves used seriously for a strategic purpose turned me off a bit, but it turns out that... you pretty much need to in order to discourage bubble spams (GI'ing and sidestepping is too problematic, like I said). With that said, I've discovered that moves which normally only have few frames of super tech crouch seem to do better against Algol's 6A+B_[A+B]. Moves include:

Astaroth's 1A, Cassandra's 1A, Hilde's 2A+K, Ivy's SW 22K, Maxi's 3A+K, Mitsurugi's 1A, Rock's 1K, Setsuka's 11A, Sophitia's 1A, Taki's 1A, Tira's 1A, Xianghua's 2A+B, Yun-Seong's 1B, and Yoshimitsu's 11A.

Some of these work better than others (due to range and amount of anticipation required)... but please note I did not test every possible move in the game. Nonetheless, there's apparently something here for at least half the cast. Whether it was intentional or not, I can say now that the match-up with turtle Algol does not have to be lop-sided! :D
 
What advantages are there to using 6A+B over FC A+B or 2A+B?

Here's something interesting to try:

1.) Take Yoshi and Algol into training and put them at close range.

2.) Have Algol do nothing but 4[A+B] over and over again.

3.) See what Yoshi has that you can hit him with.

He definitely has ways to get out of this silly situation but I hope it will help illustrate how bubbles can limit your options. Yes lots of characters can TC under bubbles but what if the Algol player isn't just spamming bubbles? What if he wants you to use your unsafe/easily punishable tech crouch low? Doesn't Algol have a lifter that auto-GIs lows and mids? Even using a single bubble as a shield cuts down your opponents options by a large margin for almost no risk on Algol's part.

I won't deny that bubbles suck against characters that have good range but it seems like he can shut down short range characters with smart and patient application of bubbles. The only question I have is whether or not he can completely break these match ups or if they're just slightly lopsided.
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
Kinda beating a dead horse now...

Anyways, Nationals update: those of us who cared, stepped up and made sure Algol was not banned. *victory dance*. I will post more when rules are finalized.

cha cha
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I guess its not really beating a dead horse until we get official conformation that he is allowed, which now seems to be the case. Good show ol' bean.
 
well im gonna go and say that i feel he should be banned...and people that play against some1 that know how good he really is will agree...


if i am wrong and he doesnt win tourney after tourney i will apologize to everyone...but i respectfully say he is fucking broken beyond belief...IMO
 
Ramon said:
well im gonna go and say that i feel he should be banned...and people that play against some1 that know how good he really is will agree...


if i am wrong and he doesnt win tourney after tourney i will apologize to everyone...but i respectfully say he is fucking broken beyond belief...IMO
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I understand man. But can I ask how is he broken? What wrong with a good character?
 
Alex.J said:
Under the Faq for the Regionals Dancing Fighter G talks about glitches shouldn't be allowed in the regionals because they weren't intended to be in the game. After reading this why would be ban things that were obviously suppose to be in the game like Algol? Hasn't the precedent already been established?
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Actually... if you read the interviews, Algol WAS intended to be a broken character. He was made to be the "strongest character ever in SC series"... so even though he's probably not banworthy, he was clearly made to be banned, according to the developers.
 
his orbs get even worse in walled stages because they can bounce back. I was watching some Tougeki weekly videos, and grand finals had an Algol in it. The opponent started comboing him, but got interrupted by an orb that hit them in the back.
 
"strongest character ever in SC series"

I remember that quote, in context it really felt as if they meant...story wise. He does have Soul Edge/Soul Calibur afterall - and thats why he'd be the most powerful in the SC universe.
Just how Nightmare is one of the strongest characters, but can still be defeated in a match by what should be a lowly lizardman. They deffinately did not mean it balance wise.


Direct quote
"We aimed to make a character that is the “king” of an ultra ancient civilization and a character that obviously proves the setting of being the strongest character ever in SC series."

They arn't saying he's powerful because A+B is a good move and bounces off of walls.

"So how powerful is the bird-armored ancient ruler? His right hand glows red because he is holding the Soul Edge, and his left hand holds the Soul Calibur and a blue glow."

Nothing about his moves.



As for those oofmatic videos... Still dont think he's imbalanced. I've faught oof online too. The bubbles that did pwn in there are because the person just dosnt close distance. Shouldnt be that far away...he even has a move that punishes backstepping. just fight him different and its not imbalanced. If you turtle in the back and wait for him, sure, i can see that. His first shot is always the diagonals...could have angel stepped between them and avoided a lot of trouble. Or GI.
yes, I'd be happy to let him feed Setsuka's auto GI. Did not see a single GI in those videos, he deserved a lot of them, even for his close game.
Match against Ivy, you dont really see any bubbles fired.

The bubbles is what everyone is complaining about, isnt it?
 
YouTube - SowNemesis (SOP) vs Oofmatic (ALG) 3

This video clearly shows how broke he is... He's not as unsafe as people claim he is. The bubbles aren't the direct problem; the problem is when you have to deal with bubbles AND his attacks. Its like having to block two characters at the same time, while also trying to do damage to one of them. One good launcher, and he gets so much free damage its sick; his relaunches are NOT tech catches, they are guaranteed and pick up off the ground.
 
he's still not more broke than SC3 sophie or X and you all know it

sow was failing pretty hard at punishing algol's 11A low move I might add, so keep that in mind


for random trivia sake, his soul calibur and soul edge are fakes he created. it says so in his story mode introduction
 
Tiamat said:
he's still not more broke than SC3 sophie or X and you all know it

sow was failing pretty hard at punishing algol's 11A low move I might add, so keep that in mind


for random trivia sake, his soul calibur and soul edge are fakes he created. it says so in his story mode introduction
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Not to attack you or anything but you really shouldn't criticize someone else's vids if you have not played against a high level Algol player. I've seen OOF played hundreds of matches all at high level and it's not pretty. I would really like to see vids of you playing against a high level Algol payer. Saying you can punish move "A" with move "B", or move "A" is -19 on block so I can punish with move "B" is not practical in a live match. Statistical data has no application at all whatsoever. Your reactions and the situation you're placed in determine the outcome of the match.

- If Algol shoots a mid orb and attacks you low at the same point of impact do you even know that it's unblockable?. Of course you do know that you cannot fuzzy guard or block low and high at the same time right?.

- Orbs re-launch. It's possible to get re-launched off of any tripping low. Which other character in the SC series has this and can combo close to half life off of it?.

- When Algol is in a corner if extremely difficult to get in. Even characters with teleports can get behind him in a corner. Seeing that the camera only moves for the opponent all orbs track to both sides (especially the crouching orbs). He can sit in a corner and just spam orbs all day.

- He has an infinite off of a high wall splat (self explanatory)

- Most of his launchers are safe (self explanatory)

- Orbs can screw up the camera angle/view at times if too many are floating around the ring.

- Random orbs can cost you guaranteed damage. This isn't Street Fighter or Dragon Ball Z people. Projectiles have no place in the Soul Calibur universe.

I can go on but I'll just stop here. It's up to the National Directors regarding what the rules are going to be. Whatever they decide will be the long term standard for the majority of tournaments that are yet to come.
 
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