Raphael General Discussion

If the opponent is regiing it, it's obviously going to get dropped. That went without saying. I had a n00b Raph cancel my VE A with 4A+B before. Yeah, he could've ducked/punished or 4B'd me the same, but there's a helluva lot more 2/3 hit strings in the game that end in a high/mid horizontal. THe re GI attribute with this move is completely stupid and defeating....this really could've been a great defensive move in Raphael's arsenal....
 
I actually hit that move offline when I had a chance to play. It seems like a move that will work like once or twice. I can only see it as a mind game type thing.
 
analyze the move for what it is WITHOUT the reGI factor....I honestly think it was a programming error that allowed it to be re gi'able...like the system reads the aGI as a NORMAL GI for some odd reason, allowing the move to be re GI'd. If it wasn't for this one shitty aspect, the move would be very rewarding, and force opponents to constantly mix up and stop strings ending in mid/high horizontals, and make them double think relying on 2a to maintain frame adv over Raph up close.
 
4A+B is horrible even without the ReGI

lets thing about this really quick

it only GIs horis, which means you have to guess twice (if they are gonna take the bait and if its gonna be a hori) for what? 50 damage? so bad
 
What is it? i17-i27? i11-i21? I don't get Holyforces post on the first page. It gets vader's 1ba, Raphaels VE A, Amy's 1ka....I can't think of any 2/3 hit strings ending in mid horizontals, but from those other mid/high examples I provided, I don't see the GI window having any problems with the others.

It's a pointless argument if the opponent can REGI 4A+B EVERYTIME....which we will never really know for sure. You never see Raphael's using this move. It seems easy to do in training mode, I don't know about in the heat of every battle though.
 
4A+B should get back entry into Preparation OR have a 4[A+B] version where it does .. something different.
A huge GI window is the perk of this move, I'm okay with re-GI, the issue is that it's absolutely no guessing game at all. Even if you just frame the thing, the opponent knows when to reJI.

Maybe a new Quick Parade could just impact the move and do nothing; when it activates an attack to Raph's detriment... and you can't even get this attack without QP... that's stupid.

Oh, BelovedChild, I saw your post in the SC5 thread too. I wanted to say, of your one-of-four wish, I specifically wouldn't like it if Raph got a quick mid hori. But he does need good NH damage.
Raphael having linearity and clumsy horis is physically accurate to his weapon. What I want to see though is, if I have to guess and KNOW my opponent is not just stepping, but KNOW he's stepping left (because I don't have a catch-all), I want a damn fine reward for using 3A, when this move is unsafe and i20. That's what I want. If I use garbage to catch step, I want a reward. Instead I get +3? or step G? :C

I think you would agree with me there. I doubt too many would see eye-to-eye on 'physical realism' in this game; but I also think if Raph just picked up tools like that, he'd stop being special, and I'd stop liking him.
 
well i'd be happy with a decent AA >__> AND a FAST low damage mid that gives me advantage.....for ex make 6K tracking....

Another raph problems btw are supertech crouch...almost EVERY mid we have does whiff against stc
 
Yeah :A: series is fine. It's not even meant to hit people. 6_6

I say, if the best that 6A can be is a non-tracking i15 high that gives some crap <40 dmg combo on CH (and Raph has no oki game), replace it with something to use more like other character AAs.
Or just make 6A his Prep A. Why does Raph have a move which is a godlike CH but only in a stance built of the ability to act when he wouldn't be able to at all?


I hate not being able to just hit something standing just there to my right, but I'm really bothered because it feels like I should have something to hit on my left.

I want instant Pirouette Kick (VE K, or SC2 214K).
... for that matter where's 214? :C


I don't think tech jumps should track. You jumped. How can you track?
Beating super tech crouch answer should get something that lets Raph hurt opponents at his feet; it could be the same thing. It makes no sense that someone squirming at his feet is better off than someone standing in front of him. Let 1B or some kind of kick skewer a grounded opponent. Again... perhaps Prep K:K straight out of standing, could be given to 44K or 11_77K. It would be something.

It does make sense though that Lizard Crawl is Raph's nightmare. But Twin Angel Step is ridic.
 
Mandritti said:
I don't think tech jumps should track. You jumped. How can you track?
It does make sense though that Lizard Crawl is Raph's nightmare. But Twin Angel Step is ridic.
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umm for the TJ tracking lets ask kilik ._.
For the crawling even if it whiffs sometimes just spam 6K :D or after a block 33K:B imho crawl is not that problem....

Step G + kilik WSB IS really raph's nightmare.......

And i don't get the thing on AA.... its i16 one of the slowest of the game >__> how can it be good?
 
raphs wost nightmare in kilik vs raph is 1B and FC 3B both own his shit so hard


raphs A is -2 on block +4 on hit and +6 on CH thats how its good

AB is -12 on block and +2 on hit

thats pretty respectable thats why when we play I whore out A
 
yeah a is -2 like 90% of other A moves of the cast whereas they trade for i13 or less ._. i feel very blessed to have an i16 non tracking high mid instead.
 
mm maybe, but A blockstun is HUGE.....not so many option to abuse it....
I tried a 3K that is nice to get some space, but gets blocked onreaction often after ducking for AB.
And your opponent is probably trying to stepG you on left or TC you so an i16 HIGH right tracking has many chances to whiff.
 
Thanks for that info omnis.

If he doesn't get the fast mid horizontal from standing(which is completely fine, I actually do agree with you mandritti, it would take away his unique approach to handling opponents), give him the RO, NH Damage, or frames he NEEDS to still be viable vs Strong players with way better characters. Prep K NEEDS to be at least 3/4 frames faster, Raphael's BB needs better NH/CH frames, or it's tracking back. Prep A needs to either CATCH ALL STEP, or not be unsafe on block. 4A+B shouldn't have a reGI factor to it. etc....
 
WuHT said:
tracks 100% on raph's left (the way he uses his hilt to smack you, the blade sticks out and will CH any stepper to his left... as raph doesnt' need to align for it to hit).
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BelovedChild said:
Raph's left is his strong side, which most players are stepping left(which means Raphael's right). 6A's strong side tracking isn't very helpful.
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WARUI_NE said:
4K only tracks his weak side but its i14 and has a lot of ghost range so you can use it to be annoying since its like -4 on block and has good range
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I thought we should move this out of the video thread. Posts quoted for convenience.

So umm... WuHT's post: I have 3K for that. ._.

Raph's left may be his strong side in his weak situation (corps a corps), but he still can't get guys on his left dancing around the tip of his WS A. Plus iWS A is still, what, frame 25 at best? (22A should hit right step rather than left at least, or just be 2 frames faster, for being a high. grumble)

As I see it, Raph's right is his strong side because of 1A, 3A, 33B (well, 253B; the non-alignment sometimes works if you step with them), 11B (though, knowing the MU, should just play around this), *cough* 22A, and 44AB_.
I just have to keep in mind when 1A doesn't track, as SupHy experienced against Xephukai.

... man, srsly, when Xeph stepped that 1A on SupHy's right, it was... heartbreaking. :(

*~*~*~
I found something neat about Prep K. You know those times when Prep K seems to dodge a move, usually a vert, and ends up inside or behind the opponent?
It's so obvious now, so maybe you know it, but Prep K jumps people in Tech crouch, right? So but then, if he doesn't clear the distance, he ends up clipped to somewhere on the opponent's right (I don't know why it's always their right). If a vert is used whose hitbox is on only one side (Mitsu B, just for example), Raph won't pass through that space.
Of course against Mitsu he has that BT B+K which can't be beat (the guy should just turn around at the start of every fight, he'd be invincible. >.>), and likely you have horrid disadvantage, but it does make Prep K slightly less crap than otherwise.

It's very intriguing to me though, who likes doing a Prep B just to turn a Prep transition into -8 on block or make people duck (which makes the move even more safe if I don't Prep). If they try to have both worlds and TC, Prep K theoretically is attractive. Only when Prep A wouldn't work though. So this may be nothing.
 
prep K is only viable vs people who don't handle prep appropriately, after they have any knowledge, it wont work, simple as that, offline. It's VERY REACTABLE if they wait out prep, it's killed by step, by the "duck" strategy, and easily interruptable. It'll beat 2a's...I'll give it THAT MUCH...but it wont beat out anyone who's ducking prep on reaction, and relying on FC 2A to beat anything except prep k and prep a, in which case, he'll block your prep k and you're still eating punishment.

Prep K, as it stands with it's krazy slow impact, doesn't work. I've gotten people with Prep K before because I randomly do the JF on it, and they get punish happy after the first one...but you can't rely on that at all....

Again, like I said, if Prep A catched step both ways, was safe, or Prep K was 3/4 frames faster.....it COULD work....but that's not the reality of the situation.
 
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