New SCV CRITICAL GAUGE / METER - Information and Discussion

Here's my suggestion: (I'm sure the lot of you will belittle me ASAP)

Dear Namco... Please reintroduce the traditional, meterless Guard Impact system of 6G/3G for repels and 4G/1G for parries. Guard Impacts should also be effective against throws like in SC1,2,3.

There's no reason why you couldn't let the player choose between old GI and new GI...

Or, even better, both systems could layer and work at the same time. There could be standard GI's (which are very risky and do not guarantee damage), and then the 50% meter version with guaranteed damage could be called a "Critical Impact."

In fact, both systems could work seamlessly together.

Traditional Guard Impacts are risky because there are 4 options which could whiff easily:

6G: repels highs and mids
3G: repels mids and lows
4G: parries highs and mids
1G: parries mids and lows

(Please note parrying should work like SC1, not the fall-down nonsense of SCIV.)

"Critical Impacts" could cost 50% or even 100% since they give guaranteed damage and counter highs and mids and lows.

Also note: Guard Impacts should be effective against throws.
 
How do you guys feel about CE abuse? I honestly felt a bit bored watching Kayane beastin dat Leixia and landing an average of 2-3 CEs per ROUND during 10 minutes. Just curious.
 
I am really not liking the fact that you have to do 236236(A+B+K) to activate the CE's. I always hated trying to do that motion on a gamepad, especially given that some characters use 236 to go into a forward stance (Nightmare, Sophitia, Kilik to name a few in SC4). Moves like that also feel like it goes against the 8 way mechanic - even though Sophitia in SC4 had a double step, it was in place since it was more of a 236 -> Angel Step 1 -> 236 -> Angel Step 2 - You basically went into a secondary step for repeating. And if you didn't like that form of play, you could play a different character.

Now, theses oddball moves seem forced and required across all characters. I don't get why they didn't just do A+B+K+G for the CE, 6A+B+K for the Guard Impact, and A+B+K in certain states for the Braves.

Oh wait a second... since I don't understand Japanese where they keep showing 236236ABK... and after seeing post 1... Is it actually A+B+K+G for the CE?
 
IdleMind said:
You ceaselessly spam Daishi about changing things back to "the good old days" and have no understanding that the good old days weren't so good. Please, stop. Or at least stop here. I don't care what you do on twitter.
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he wasn't asking for a such a drastic change as revert to the old he was rather suggesting the implementation of the old GI system......

if anything that sounds decent, an integration of both sc4 GI and sc5 "critical" impact
 
pootytang9 said:
he wasn't asking for a such a drastic change as revert to the old he was rather suggesting the implementation of the old GI system......

if anything that sounds decent, an integration of both sc4 GI and sc5 "critical" impact
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He's asking for GI's to be hit range dependent and not cost meter, and adding another system which is redundant on top of that. He is asking for needless complexity so he can relive SC1 GI through rose colored glasses.

The fact is, hardly anyone who was good at the game used GI's at a high level. Why? Because they did too little. They were hit range dependent (HM/ML) and had a huge whiff window. Now, requiring GI to have meter means when you have meter and they don't, looking to GI becomes a viable means to instigate offense, since if they have no meter, they can't RE-GI.

Now good players actually would WANT to use them.

On top of that, his quote about "Fall Down Nonsense" means he clearly doesn't understand the purpose of 4G/1G in SC4, which was to RESTORE SOUL GAUGE. It makes you fall down so you don't get both a mixup AND restore Soul Gauge.

I'm just tired of him pining for something that sucked, and frankly, he doesn't understand why.
 
IdleMind said:
The fact is, hardly anyone who was good at the game used GI's at a high level. Why? Because they did too little. They were hit range dependent (HM/ML) and had a huge whiff window. Now, requiring GI to have meter means when you have meter and they don't, looking to GI becomes a viable means to instigate offense, since if they have no meter, they can't RE-GI.

.
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according to what you said, if sc4 players don't GI at high levels, then the same will be true for sc5. in fact it will be worse because note even casual players would feel motivated enough to GI.

To be honest the sc5 GI system isn't fully known, or at least im basing what i know from the stuff i have read on the forum and kayanes impressions....

in truth the mechanics of the sc5 GI system is not really all that much different from sc4. rather the only drastic change being meter management intensive, as it cost meter to GI. sc5 removed the range dependency and changed the button press to one universal press, which is reasonable as it ties into the range dependency thing. so in essence they made GI easier, but then you weigh the cost of it being easier to that of it requiring meter and the GI system pretty much equals out to the same effectiveness as in sc4.

you whiff a GI in sc4 you get punished........you whiff it in sc5 its safe too assume the same will happen(along with wasted meter)

By adding meter the decision to want to use GI is not encouraged . rather its more discouraged. for example, the scenario you suggested, when one person has meter and the other doesn't the player with meter is more inclined to use GI to instigate an offense. based on what you said how high lvl players wouldn't use GI for the small gain in sc4, the same is applied in sc5.........in the case of the player with meter, his options for meter use will vary, CE,BE, or GI..and simply put in high lvl plays the options with most damage appeal (CE,BE) will shroud GI. Which is the same if not similar as in sc4........

why did i bring this up?

simply put............ with the change of the sc4 GI to a metered GI. the option to impact in sc5 has been nerfed to the point this it's as useless to use at high lvl play as it was in sc4........

in my opinion, i loved the sc4 impacting system as it allowed me to create mind games with my opponent. i prefer that the old system be implemented, but since soul gauge was remove, switch repels to give you meter and parries to remove meter from opponent. this would create a neat twist to meter management.

if anything, i see GI in sc5 to be a great tool for making the opponent waste meter. by tricking the opponent into whiffing their GI and wasting meter as a common tactic in casuals.........
 
maybe CEs should cost 2 full gauges, i don't like the idea they can be spammed. You can have ways to help build the meter faster though but i don't like how easily these CE can be pulled off after a simple launcher, crumble stun, spin stun..etc.
 
hteng said:
maybe CEs should cost 2 full gauges, i don't like the idea they can be spammed. You can have ways to help build the meter faster though but i don't like how easily these CE can be pulled off after a simple launcher, crumble stun, spin stun..etc.
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personally i agree, they should either raise the cost of the CE or give us some opportunity to lower the meter of the opponent.

like if you armor crush the opponent thats an automatic minus one meter or for every counter hit your opponents gets hit with their meter falls by a 10th or some balanced extent of course.........
 
In the Namco stream, Voldo wins a round with GI, he gets 3BB after it and it does 15-20% of damage. We don't know if the Hilde player even tried to guard, but in SC4 you need a JI to do that.
 
GI affecting any non-unblockable attack with the same notation is a buff, even if it costs meter. I'm sure the frame advantage has been buffed too. This alone should encourage a little more GI in high level play. If not, you can always use your brave edge and critical edge moves. Everything that costs meter, as well as the threat of guard burst, adds new layers of mind games to the calibur meta.

If you had mind games using GI in the previous games, most likely they can still be implemented in your SC5 game =P. Now you don't have to guess between a high/mid GI and a mid/High GI, lol.
 
Albator said:
How do you guys feel about CE abuse? I honestly felt a bit bored watching Kayane beastin dat Leixia and landing an average of 2-3 CEs per ROUND during 10 minutes. Just curious.
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The problem may come from several points :
-Kayane's opponents didn't seem very strong, against more skilled guys, she wouldn't land that many launchers.
-Leixia's soul gauge charges very fast, maybe it will be balanced later. But again, her opponents allowed her to play a very agressive game. I guess it helped her fill the gauge faster.

BTW, I'm not commenting on them, as I know I would get pawned too by any decent player...

As for GI requiring meter, I really don't mind, since I don't like such a universal technique. It encourages defense too much to my taste.
 
GI's are not used at High Level Play Idle?!?! Who do you play at a high level?! GI's are so important. Its how you stop the opponents abusable moves. Man I don't know where this Myth comes from, probably just USA.

I think what you want to say is that there are no "GI Wars" in high level play.
 
Not the right thread to discuss this, but GI's are nothing more than a tool to put pressure on your opponent by making him believe you are reading and stopping his strings. There are other more effective ways however, such as evasion.
 
D.I.N.O said:
GI's are not used at High Level Play Idle?!?! Who do you play at a high level?! GI's are so important. Its how you stop the opponents abusable moves. Man I don't know where this Myth comes from, probably just USA.

I think what you want to say is that there are no "GI Wars" in high level play.
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Man you are so bad at this game. I'm sorry Canada, I don't hold you responsible for much, but I blame you for this.
 
A technical question or perhaps an idea, with the just guard feature added to game-play, is there a possibility I could just-guard a part of a string move then do a GI follow-up on the next upcoming attack.

Example: Pyrrha does BB string on Natsu, Natsu JG the first B can she GI the second B given that she has enough gauge?
 
franman said:
A technical question or perhaps an idea, with the just guard feature added to game-play, is there a possibility I could just-guard a part of a string move then do a GI follow-up on the next upcoming attack.

Example: Pyrrha does BB string on Natsu, Natsu JG the first B can she GI the second B given that she has enough gauge?
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theoritcally it should work, but in reality it woudn't.........

see the JG system gives a frame advantage when succesful, so given the small frame range of natural combos such as bb, you would expect to be able to interrupt a string using JG + what eva youz wantz...........such as fast frame punisher or GI(assuming GI is 11 frames like in sc4 i believe)

the problem is.........though JG gives frame advantage, its advanatge will vary depending on the strength of the attack, so a bb string from natsu will give like +1 frame or so due to its lack of strength, for a JG of one b....which is hardly enough to be able to make a GI quicker then the next B in the string
 
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