Cervantes Q&A / General Discussion

So just so I understand this:

1k is gone and iGDR costs 1/2 meter to execute?


Why am I gonna bother w/this char again? WTF is this guy cause it's not Cervantes
 
Nori said:
So just so I understand this:

1k is gone and iGDR costs 1/2 meter to execute?


Why am I gonna bother w/this char again? WTF is this guy cause it's not Cervantes
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No, you can still do a regular iGDR. The BE offers an alternative easier and bufferable way which is also advantage on block.

No 1K, but he still has 11K. For a staple standing low he also has 3AB, it's much faster now and it doesn't knock down. Not sure about whether it gives advantage, but you can bet on it. Lots of lows give advantage in SCV.
 
1k is such a staple low. It's been there since soul edge, I just can't imagine it not being in the game. And 11K is slow as hell.


Really appreciate you guys posting up the changes for me to scream at my computer at, thanks:)
 
DRAGOON320 said:
1K may be gone, but we gained so much back from SC1-3. And still, I think 1A, B will be his new staple low, and it doesn't leave him in crouch either. I think that's a plus.
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What he said. 3AB (now 1AB) looks sick fast, almost unseeable, good range...linear probably but Cervantes has really good antistep. He has his SC2 11AA back (which ROs!!), his Auto GIs, his Unblockable, his old throw...what else can you ask for? What did you expect him to be?

This was the best that could happen....some new moves would have been cool, but getting his old ones back is the best we could get i guess.
 
I can't fathom a top cervantes player w/out using 1k. It's the foundation of his game play, especially his sick WS game in SC4. His worst version by far, SC2, it's pretty much all he head. SC3, it set up everything. It's a low that grants adv on hit and allows you to stay on offense and force mistakes. Plus, it ducks which makes it great to counter highs/throws. 3A, B doesn't sound like a proper substitute

What people are forgetting is that SC4 Cervantes was so good, he didn't need any of his old moves back to compete. Cervantes in 3 and 4 were capable of winning a tournament. Making his highs/mids/throws better, ok cool I guess. However, taking out a STAPLE move of 1K bothers me to no end (unless there is some other magical low I'm not aware of). Does 3A, B grant adv on hit to keep my offense going?

My opinion is obviously subject to change, but right now, it doesn't look like he has a great low to open players up. I really hope I'm wrong and regret making this post
 
Ok done about 4 hours of SC5. Game speed feels between 3 and 4.

There's iGDR which is relatively easy to execute. Some moves are removed yet again. SC4's 4A, 1K, 1A are gone.

11B is now 33B.
22B is now 11B, ground AT is gone. :(
11A is now 22A, there's a BE that goes into the mid GC.
22_88A is now 33_99A iirc.
1K is SC4's 214~K
44A is now 4A.

214~A guarantees a free CE. It is an vertical Auto GI but the window is really small.
214~K is SC4's 412K and there's 2 just frames B on hit.
214~B is the same.

3A is SC4's 3A+B and it KND on normal hit.
3A+B is a new 2-hit move which can be combo-ed into on CH. It is unsafe. (Tested against Hilde's A, A)
iGDR has a followup, I managed to get it once but couldn't replicate input. It's like SC3 so it's really damaging now.
The new 1A is the old 3A. On CH 3A,B, there's a JF gunshot which causes ground stun, not sure if anything is guaranteed.
8A+K is now 8B+K.
B+G guarantees at least a 3B, couldn't get 33B (old 11B) to land, opponent can tech.

BEs:
6B BE
4B BE
22A BE
A+G BE
FCA+B BE

Some interesting things I tried out:
11K is advantage on hit (6K versus Prryha's 2A)
I landed CE after 214A in front of the wall, managed to combo into 3A+B~B,B,B for half life.h
 
Nori said:
Concerns about 1K
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Welcome back Nori, long time no see!

I feel I should answer this with some general change knowledge: Lows as a mix-up to open people up seem to be toned down quite a bit in favor of stronger frames on mids, such high guard damage (with no way to recover it except over time), and the general throw mix-up everyone has. I believe this requires a bit of step back at how we observe and judge character strengths in a Namco fighting game because of the type of play that we are used to.

Good mid/Good low/Safe launcher etc has been such a "thing" to look for in SC (and Tekken) for so long I believe it's difficult to imagine how different the game can be; and having played quite a bit of SC5... it is different. Those things we traditionally trained ourselves to look for in characters- low risk/high reward options, safe movement and evasion options, "cheesy shit" and so on are minimized or removed to a huge degree- but not with nothing replacing them- it's just that the things replacing them are alien to us as traditional 3d players. It will take some adjustment to realize those things change the game-play experience very dramatically (while still retaining a SC feel)

My 2 cents is Cervantes in SC5 will be very different; but not "bad". Similarly, Mitsu players had the same reaction when 2kb was "nerfed" to trip on CH only, feeling it ruined him without realizing that his entire design gameplan had changed from close-range M/L mixup character to something else. I'm sure the same is true with Cervantes.
 
CH 1A, B has a JF? Check. Half life + wall combo galore? Check. 11K advantage on hit? Check.

This is sounding too good to be true.
 
Well it is. I got videos of it but I can only release it next month. The setup I tried on was laggy so I couldn't get down some of the JFs.

Wall combos are toned down a lot compared to SC4. Ground damage is back to normal so rolling on the ground is more risky now. The loss of 1K will definitely affect gameplay. Cervantes whiff punishing is very painful as usual and his CE is really useful. You can whiff punish stuff anywhere with CE, combo with it or use it after guard breaks.
 
DRAGOON320 said:
CH 1A, B has a JF? Check. Half life + wall combo galore? Check. 11K advantage on hit? Check.

This is sounding too good to be true.
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Yup. It's not that hard to do the wall combo considering maybe other moves like 22A BE guarantees a CE. CH1A, B JF version will be followed up with a gunshot to the legs leading to ground stun possibly a followup. It is negative on hit.

Signia said:
Too bad it's unsafe
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3A+B (SC5) is unsafe, 3A (SC5) has pushout on block and should be safe like other SC counter parts. But everything might change.
 
ShenChan said:
3A+B (SC5) is unsafe, 3A (SC5) has pushout on block and should be safe like other SC counter parts. But everything might change.
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3A doesn't push back as far, and it got punished by Raph 6BB and Cervy aB when I played. I seem to recall getting BB'd somewhere too I'm not sure.

On CH it leads to the same stun you get when you did SCIV 3A+B after WR A. It makes sense for it to be unsafe now that it has a good CH property instead of being big disadvantage on hit, while still being a fast tracking mid. SCV 3A might have a tad more range as well.

Still, you're right, this is SCV-unsafe, which is pretty safe
 
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