Meter Management Discussion.

KingAce

KingAce

HERMITISM
Nightmare players you have a decision to make. Do you build meter or do you build less meter for more damage? NM's most important moves for consideration of meter are 2A+B, 2B+KBE (for mid/throw mixups)CE and GSKBE.

Now in my opinion GSKBE is probably the most important move in NM's arsenal considering the retarded damage and ringouts he gets from it. You need to have that move at all times.

Now how do we build meter. Well you have to consider some situations. It's a huge waste to kill someone with minimal health with meter in the early rounds. Try to avoid none combos like WRB GSKBE...is not a combo. You get meter back for losing twice in a row, so put that in consideration if you're behind. Do combos that are efficient at building meter. Damage doesn't always equate to victory, and good players will fear NM's CE in the later rounds.

Examples.
CH GS A 6(B)NSSK 2A+B builds meter.
The other options are
CH GS A 4KBE
CH GS A 6K 1A for techtrap options.
 
2A+B does build a lot of meter, but what is the best way to land it? I can think of a few, like NSS A+B, 2A+B and 33B, hold guard, 2A+B, after a wallsplat GSKBE (and a possible 4KK after it)...I'm sure there are some counterhits and crumples too. Compiling a list over time would surely help Nightmare get the meter he's so good at using. Finding out the exact amount would be beneficial as well, it seemed to build a little less than one BE worth?

As for the use of meter, in what situations and out of which moves are people using their BEs? How do you set up your GSKBE, do you use the 2B+K BE, would you spend the meter to 33B BE if you had the chance or just do it raw;is it worth it compared to saving it? These are the kind of questions I think would really benefit from both the OP and others contributing.

One of my priority questions however would be: Best use of 4K BE? The ringout potential, while there, is less than stunning and I'm having trouble working it into my game otherwise.
 
dont forget 1A + GSKBE

thats like bread and butter and you can almost do 1A on reaction when you see a roll
 
Well I will be running a new strategy today. Currently at work. I had a session yesterday with Omega and he opened my eyes to a very aggressive style.

So I will try to insert more GSA, in an attempt to land CH GSA 6(B)NSS K 2A+B. As well as more WRB in attempts to land CH WR(B) NSSA+B 2A+B. These are risks I will be taking early on in a match.

After two 2A+B in a round NM has one bar...if that's the first round that's a huge boost going into the second round.

The best use for 4K BE I currently believe to be after CH GS A. Otherwise, if you make the right read and need some thing fast to punish your opponent hard you can consider it. For example after JG or a GI.

This is all opinion on my part. I am sure others have their own ideas on this.
 
Nightmare meter building is great, i think this, guard bursting and also spacing are pretty good things to do with him now. but i think his meter building is more for guarantee things, a mean combos, punish or guaranteed ring outs, cuz his BE moves arent the great thing if people block them, i mean GSK BE second hit is duckable, 4K BE the same, 33B BE ppl can see it shines yellow and still punishable, 2B+K BE is special mid and slow, the tremor can be jumped or simply blocked, i think they work better in situations they are guarantee (combos get more damage with them, punish i17 4K BE for 72 damage, GSK BE ringouts, etc.) the only things that i think are worth enough to try out of combos, punish or guaranteed ring outs, are his CE and GIs.

GIs are easier to success now, and Nightmare gets a good reward since 3B is guarantee if people dont GI back, and even if they GI back, they got to waste an half of 1 full meter.
 
You can also ukemi vs gsk be. If you land 2 it becomes stupid easy to ukemi aganst. This can lead to some serious punishment for nm.

I tend to hold meter for the ce and blast them with the guarunteed reflect if possible. 4k be is shittly unsafe, 2b+k be is easy to block on reaction. Gsk be and situationaly, 33b be are the only ones worth using.
 
CE is useless. Most of the time, meter will go toward Guard Impact, GS K(BE), 4K(BE), and 2B+K(BE).

Nightmare will actually need GI because he will rarely get anything good off of Just Guard. All his good starters and punishers are too slow to get a lot of mileage out of JG. Most times you'll be getting 6A, 6K, or a:g:A after a JG. Nightmare will need GI to get better damage opportunities. 3[B] after a GI, or throw, or 22K_66B to punish re-GI.

GS K(BE), as we know, is his most important BE. Ring Outs, Wall Combos, etc. His most versatile BE.

4K(BE) for high damage combos, and for Guard Burst (if, and only if your opponent does not know to duck the second hit)

2B+K(BE) for close range okizeme. If it's guarded, you just took off a nice chunk of their guard meter, and Nightmare still has advantage. If it hits the opponent, you apply your okizeme game. If the opponent is hit by the shockwave while standing, free 3[B] or 3AA.


To build meter, Nightmare needs to be able to bait whiffs with B+K and punish with NSS A+B > 2A+B. End wall combos with 2A+B if you feel you will need meter later on. Recognize when WS [B] connects on counter vs normal hit and combo appropriately. I have made the mistake of not confirming the CH and doing/whiffing NSS b:A many times, thus losing my meter gain. Sometimes, A+G builds ridiculous meter as well, so throw a lot. Get your throw breaks down, because breaking throws builds meter too (the trade off for the chip damage it does).
 
i think his CE is pretty far of being useless, it is balanced not retarded, not a thing you should spam or throw without thinking, cuz he can be punish pretty hard but still a good CE.

4K BE for guard burst... seriously? any decent player can duck second hit and punish him so bad, i think just for guard bursting is a waste of meter, for adding damage to combos and punish is ok.

and for his 2B+K i think it is a waste of meter if isnt for forced block situations or guaranteed as tech if there is any
 
his CE is useless against good players

xibas and other CE's are 100% better since they do the same thing but are safer and can actually be comboed into
 
His CE is not the best, but it can be very usefull to negate stances mixup like yoshi, natsu, maxi, mitsu, etc...
You can even punish Algol's 8B+KB... with step + CE (8B+K is a joke stance, but we never know)

About JG + punish: 3AA and 3B can punish more moves than you think
and JG + insert CH 6B is also a strong tool to build meter
 
The only thing he actually NEEDS meter for is GS K BE and even then you only need it if their back is to the ring edge or a wall. Nightmare gains meter quickly but generally he doesn't even need it so you have some freedom to do whatever. I think I may use it for GIs.
 
maybe we can starve their soul meter by doing many GI and refilling it with 2A+B,
it can become quite a nice strategy
 
Vlaster said:
i think his CE is pretty far of being useless, it is balanced not retarded, not a thing you should spam or throw without thinking, cuz he can be punish pretty hard but still a good CE.

4K BE for guard burst... seriously? any decent player can duck second hit and punish him so bad, i think just for guard bursting is a waste of meter, for adding damage to combos and punish is ok.

and for his 2B+K i think it is a waste of meter if isnt for forced block situations or guaranteed as tech if there is any
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1. His CE is useless. It's never connecting against a high level player. Good players will just increase their throw frequencies and bait it.

2. Learn to read... I stated that use 4K(BE) for GB against people that don't know to duck the 2nd hit.
 
I connected it several times against Enkindu this past weekend. Tell us again that you can't land it against a high level player. You have to watch the timing on the CE, if you throw it out haphazardly, of course it's going to be useless. I probably landed the reflect a good 75% of the time I tried it, all of which were very good players. Most of those were round or match enders. Sometimes I got stuffed before the reflect could activate, bad timing on my part, sometimes I baited and used the CE as a follow up, predicting an attack that never came, bad prediction on my part. It is no way useless.
 
You can land anything against anyone; that doesnt change the fact that its the worst CE in the game.

Everyone else's CE will hit anyone attacking as well. Nightmare's just happens to have a slow startup while everyone elses is instant, plus everyone else's is safer.
 
Everyone else's doesn't have a massive reflect property either. I'd say that's a reasonable trade off for the half second start time. And every CE is punishable by something that's going to make you wish you didn't whiff it.
 
SWBeta said:
1. His CE is useless. It's never connecting against a high level player. Good players will just increase their throw frequencies and bait it.
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That doesn't really matter if you do CE on reaction to a string or telegraphed move. It still has uses as a way to avoid a mixup and get guaranteed damage because CEs cannot be GI'd back.
 
MammothMan said:
Everyone else's doesn't have a massive reflect property either. I'd say that's a reasonable trade off for the half second start time. And every CE is punishable by something that's going to make you wish you didn't whiff it.
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Massive reflect doesn't matter when other CE's come out faster and will still hit. Unless youre CE'ing Astaroth's A+B on reaction, which requires podracing reaction speeds anyway.

Every CE is punishable, but Nightmare's is the easiest to avoid and the easiest to punish. That's a fact
 
everyone seems to neglect 33B BE, i use it once in a while at distance, it does considerable guard damage and quite safe at tip. People aren't familiar with NM will almost always get launched by the second part. Not to mention it's an excellent whiff punisher that nets you a 66B or 2A+B followup.

anyway, on meter building, any wallsplat gives you a guaranteed 2A+B. from the top of my head, the most frequent wallsplats.

aGA wallsplat, if it's high wallsplat you can 4KK > W! > 3B > 2A+B, if it's low just do the 2A+B
NSS aB right wallsplat
3AA right wallsplat
 
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