Meter Management Discussion.

Oh man! Do I disagree with a lot of people here. Time will tell though, time will tell.

You must consider the reason you don't land a lot ringouts all wall combos, probably has to do with your ring positioning. If you aren't positioning yourself preemptively to land these then it's something you have to change.
 
I'd been doing some thinking about this over the weekend, and today I did the last of my testing.

It's quick and dirty, but I threw this together to illustrate my points:


Basically, Nightmare's CE is not quite a gimmick, but it's a very situational tool. Nine times out of ten normal GI or JG are better than his CE.
 
Schneider-X said:
That doesn't really matter if you do CE on reaction to a string or telegraphed move. It still has uses as a way to avoid a mixup and get guaranteed damage because CEs cannot be GI'd back.
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I did not post it in this thread, but I have acknowledged that CE'ing a canned string is the only use for CE. Even then, as shown in page's video above, GI is still a better choice. The only thing the CE has, as you said, is that it cannot be re-GI'd. In a situation where a player needs just the one round to win the game, CE'ing a canned string is a viable option. Any other time, GI and possibly JG will almost always be the better option.

hteng said:
everyone seems to neglect 33B BE, i use it once in a while at distance, it does considerable guard damage and quite safe at tip. People aren't familiar with NM will almost always get launched by the second part. Not to mention it's an excellent whiff punisher that nets you a 66B or 2A+B followup.
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imo, 33B(BE)'s damage (including his combo options) is not worth the meter, unless you end with 2A+B and get the meter back. If the first hit of 33B(BE) is blocked, the second can be stepped, fyi. But like you said, if your opponent doesn't know to step it, fire away.
 
then we agree that his CE isn't useless at all.

and for the 33B BE i think it use would depend of some situations, for the win of the round, if you have enough meter saved (1 and a half meter bar or more, i try to not get the meter stuck with having 2 full meter gauge), or if you are going to use 2A+B as combo ender to regain meter (even remember that you gain a full meter bar if your opponent wins his second round)
all this only if 33B BE is going to hit (punish on block or whiff, etc..)
 
His CE is also better than GI vs jumping attacks, unless you get a RO or wallsplat. But that's pretty extreme.
 
AAAA the know it alls, and advice to my fellow real players, meaning VLASTER AND KING ACE, dont know tiamat so, guys dont waste your time trying to explain things to them if they say Nights CE is useless then so be it, what can you do? let them drown in their own little world, peace. Ace sorry i didnt answer your message yestarday was cought on the vice lol, im not going to play today taking a break, keep leveling up, chequerao.
 
Meter should be restricted to BE and CE moves, thats it. Pulling GI into the mix has opened the door for the noobies and Ezio Auditore fanboys to mash out or turtle the whole fight
 
His CE is not useless. Its just situational. I think it will evolve to kill stances and their transitions. I still can see it as a whiff punish for some very specific moves :D
 
33_99B BE,
2A+B for meter [you get back almost as much as you used]
THIS JUST IN!!!
Can be done 12 times in a row if you have 100% meter before you are unable to do it again. After the 12th time two 6K's will bring you up to 25%.

44B NSS, A+B, 2A+B looks like it's 26% meter to me. It's >25% by just a little bit.
 
I'm.......pretty sure after the 2 A+B, anything else you try will be blockable/rollable. Using another 33B BE will most likely turn you into a sitting duck...
 
MammothMan said:
I'm.......pretty sure after the 2 A+B, anything else you try will be blockable/rollable. Using another 33B BE will most likely turn you into a sitting duck...
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You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying.

33_99_B BE, 2A+B is a combo that gives you almost the same amount of meter that you used in order to perform it.

Doing it again after doing it the first time WILL NOT COMBO. I never said that it would combo.
However, to express how much meter is lost from doing the 33_99B BE, 2A+B combo I did go into practice mode and set the meter to 100%. On this specific setting it will not refill on it's own. It will only refill the way it does during a match. e.g. You hitting someone with 2A+B while they're on the ground, hitting someone with any attack that doesn't use meter, getting hit by attacks.

So, While in this setting with 100% meter I did 33B BE, 2A+B. My meter is a little under 100% at this point. The computer stands back up and I do the combo again. I have less meter, but not ver much less. After doing this combo 12 times, not to be confused with an infinite chain of alternating between 33B BE and 2A+B for a continuous combo [cause, after 2A+B you can tech trap with things like 1A or 3B, but they're not guaranteed unless you're opponent techs the corresponding direction for the move. This IS NOT A COMBO], without doing any other attacks my meter dropped so that it was barely not enough to use a brave edge again.

So, with 100% meter you can do 33_99B BE 2A+B 12 times before you are unable to do a BE attack again. Since this DOES NOT COMBO it's not advised to do so 12 times in a row. Your attack pattern would become predictable and easily read by even the most mildly competent opponent. Not to mention that stringing these attacks together WILL NOT COMBO. In case you're confused about that part I'd like to point out that these attacks DO NOT COMBO in a continuous stream [not even a pseudo combo like the GSK BEx4 that only works if people don't tech].

What 33B BE 2A+B is good for is if you want to conserve meters. Since it can be done 12 times before you don't have enough meter to do it again it's clearly a combo that gives almost as much meter as it uses [note that even after being done 12 times, two 1k's was all that was needed to bring the meter up to 25% again and give the ability to do BE attacks]. The POINT of doing it 12 times in a row in practice is to express how little meter is uses.

So, if it's round 1 and your opponents health is low enough for 33BBE 2A+B to end the match do this combo instead of the more damaging combo 33BBE A2AA [which gives back no where near as much meter as it uses but does significantly MORE damage than the latter combo].

33BBE ->
- 2A+B [for meter]
-A2AA [damage and ring outs]
-4BB [tricky, since the A2AA does more damage and rings out more often this seems obsolete. In weird situations you wont be able to pull off the A2AA and this will work in those situations. btw, the damage difference isn't that big]
-AA4B [if you're gonna do meter managing you might as well do Guard burst management too, this will hit with the a attack and the B they'll have to block and you wont be screwed if they roll out the way or block it]

One more time 33BBE -> 2A+B DOES NOT COMBO INTO ITSELF.
I sure hope you understand what the use of this combo is now and why it was done 12 times in a row in a simulation.
 
Greven said:
do you know that 33BBE > A2AA DOES NOT COMBO?
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Eh, maybe it doesn't.
But I never said that 33BBE > 2A+B combos into itself, which was the point of my response.

33BBE > A2AA seems to work fine for me, then again so does GSKBE>GSKBE>GSKBE>GSKBE [which also only "combos" if they don't tech it correctly].
 
Well since you decided to be a douchebag in response to me pointing out the flaw in your statement. Allow me to point out the flaw in yours.

You never specificed that you were doing this as a test, you merely stated it can be done 12 times. You never said it did not combo in the first place. I believe me stating that you would be a sitting duck pointed out my knowledge that it does not combo together. So throwing it out multiple times, in bold, just shows asshattery at it's finest.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, 33B BE into A2AA can be escaped by air controlling after the first A hit. I would need to fully test that however, but I do remember trying it in 4 with 33B and A2AA would allow the opponent to air control, recover, and punish.
 
MammothMan said:
Well since you decided to be a douchebag in response to me pointing out the flaw in your statement. Allow me to point out the flaw in yours.

You never specificed that you were doing this as a test, you merely stated it can be done 12 times. You never said it did not combo in the first place. I believe me stating that you would be a sitting duck pointed out my knowledge that it does not combo together. So throwing it out multiple times, in bold, just shows asshattery at it's finest.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, 33B BE into A2AA can be escaped by air controlling after the first A hit. I would need to fully test that however, but I do remember trying it in 4 with 33B and A2AA would allow the opponent to air control, recover, and punish.
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I also never said that it DID combo.
When I speak to most people I don't have to fully explain everything as if I'm speaking to someone 5 years of age. Most people have intuition and don't need you to fill in the gaps by pointing out something that obviously doesn't combo is not a combo.

33BBE A2AA may be an escapable sequence of moves if the opponent uses air control. This, however will be counted as a combo if they don't properly escape. But we're not talking about combos here. We're talking about meter management.

So, for meter management, when you knock someone in the air with 33BBE your best option for building meter is 2A+B. To illustrate this I did it TWELVE TIMES before my meter ran too low to do it again. The twelfth time, during this very unpractical practice session, ends with you having about 23%. and two 6K's will bring you up to 25%, giving you the ability to do brave edge again. Speaking of 12 times doing that attack, if it did somehow combo your opponent would be dead by that time anyway [I'm not testing it at the moment but I'm pretty sure 6 of those will kill your opponent].

So, Since this is a topic about meter management, do you have anything to add that relates to meter management? Or would you like to go on about how 33BBE doesn't combo into A2AA [which sounds more like something to talk about in the combo's and tech traps thread]?
 
And here I thought we were talking about Meter Management, not doing the same move until you run out of meter. That's not practical and doesn't do anything for anyone. I can say "HUR HUR HUR I can do Nightmare's CE twice before I run out of meter!". Same thing, it's not practical usage of the meter. Sure he can do 33B BE 12 times, going from 60 to fully stopped before he has to do another move, if he lands every one of them, but it's not practical meter management.

I'd rather do 33B BE, GS K BE anyways, especially near a wall. Maximize the amount of damage you can get out of the meter that you currently have available.
 
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