SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

[mkl]

I'll try and cover the Maxi match-up sometime. Knowing Maxi's strings and how to JG the last hit from a two-string is really important. I haven't kept up with Maxi, so someone should confirm.

I believe it's RC AB. Safe on block against Yoshi. The easiest way to access it in training is to have your training dummy AAAB. JG the last B and punish with 6K. If you can JG on sight, you just took away a major Maxi tool. You can also teleport around it and punish with a back / side throw, 3B combo, or CE.

Oh, and punish Maxi's CE on block with 4KB. It doesn't look like it connects, but it does. I think Yoshi's CE also connects, but I don't remember. Was doing a lot of testing the other day and didn't take notes.

That's actually huge against Maxi. That move makes me think it's punishable every single time I see it no matter how many times I try to convince myself it isn't. With JGing that string I'm able to take off a lot of his faux pressure. Which I still have trouble with because I don't understand his stances at all. Red Djinn just showed me that I have a long ways to go before I understand anything about Maxi. I had a lot of success against everyone but Maxi though so I'm not massively discouraged. (Good games to RD and DrDogg!)

Also, for people who have trouble just guarding-- press and release guard 1-4 frames BEFORE the attack hits you. Release it right before the it hits you or you'll get the blocked animation.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Thanks for the protip, Hajime. I've got a lot to re-learn about punishing, having come from so many months of T6...I have at times done 8A+B thinking it will put me into DGF (because it's u+1+2 in Tekken), among other stupid things...[]

 

[RedDjinn]

You can punish maxi's CE with yoshi's CE...

Honestly Maxi VS Yoshi is a bad match up for Yoshi... if you start JG'ing RC A,B Ill just stop at the A...

You can hit confirm the A to B... Maxi beats yoshi in every area... except Oki... Yoshi is so punishable you can never afford a blocked FC 3K on Maxi... = half life... Thats a huge tool of his to be scared to use... I dont even have him in shape yet and I havnt met anyone that can rock me with him so far except Mick...

Maxi players want you to think they are going to do a certain string or move everytime... Then thats when they switch it up and catch you with something else... He has an answer for every move during most strings except maybe teleport... It just depends on who reads/guesses right... Even iMCF can be aGI'd into his CE.... for 90 something damage...

JG is big against him but it isnt the end all be all to fighting against him... Maxi can pretty much do it all this time around... I switched to him because hes like Yoshi with his stances and mix ups... Plus its fun to finally have a Top Tier Maxi...

GG's mkl and Dr. Dogg

 

[mkl]

You can punish maxi's CE with yoshi's CE...

Honestly Maxi VS Yoshi is a bad match up for Yoshi... if you start JG'ing RC A,B Ill just stop at the A...

You can hit confirm the A to B... Maxi beats yoshi in every area... except Oki... Yoshi is so punishable you can never afford a blocked FC 3K on Maxi... = half life... Thats a huge tool of his to be scared to use... I dont even have him in shape yet and I havnt met anyone that can rock me with him so far except Mick...

Maxi players want you to think they are going to do a certain string or move everytime... Then thats when they switch it up and catch you with something else... He has an answer for every move during most strings except maybe teleport... It just depends on who reads/guesses right... Even iMCF can be aGI'd into his CE.... for 90 something damage...

JG is big against him but it isnt the end all be all to fighting against him... Maxi can pretty much do it all this time around... I switched to him because hes like Yoshi with his stances and mix ups... Plus its fun to finally have a Top Tier Maxi...

GG's mkl and Dr. Dogg

I agree, but it's early I suppose. Yoshi's reach is actually pretty bad, and the only way I know how to deal with a Maxi is to back up and wait for him to fuck up and punish. With Yoshi I really can't do that very well in V. I am not incredibly good with Algol yet but I guess it's another matchup that I might have to counterpick on like a pussy.

 

[RedDjinn]

I agree, but it's early I suppose. Yoshi's reach is actually pretty bad, and the only way I know how to deal with a Maxi is to back up and wait for him to fuck up and punish. With Yoshi I really can't do that very well in V. I am not incredibly good with Algol yet but I guess it's another matchup that I might have to counterpick on like a pussy.

I have a feeling unless your godlike at JG'ing Yoshi isnt going to be the one for alot of people this time around... Counter picking is probably going to be a must, some of his match ups are straight horrible in this game... Taking out retreating A+B's was so dumb...

I also dont think Algol is a counter pick to Maxi... lol
Maxis bad match ups I believe are Mitsu, any of the Sheild bitches, aPat, and Leixia

Yoshis Main whiff punishing tool from range is 4K,B LOL thats funny, when maxi's is 44B which leads to half life...

You used alot of stuff I could have raped you for harder but I didnt like alot of DGF I blocked I only punished with WS B, when I could have did 6A+B(BE) LI A(BE) Doing FC 3K, DGF K, and even 6K,K as much as you were will hurt you badly if you play a high level Maxi in ATL, which I plan on being one of those by then ;)

Im almost positive he can punish and interupt 6K,K with 6A+B(BE)

 

[mkl]

I have a feeling unless your godlike at JG'ing Yoshi isnt going to be the one for alot of people this time around... Counter picking is probably going to be a must, some of his match ups are straight horrible in this game... Taking out retreating A+B's was so dumb...

I also dont think Algol is a counter pick to Maxi... lol
Maxis bad match ups I believe are Mitsu, any of the Sheild bitches, aPat, and Leixia

Yoshis Main whiff punishing tool from range is 4K,B LOL thats funny, when maxi's is 44B which leads to half life...

You used alot of stuff I could have raped you for harder but I didnt like alot of DGF I blocked I only punished with WS B, when I could have did 6A+B(BE) LI A(BE) Doing FC 3K, DGF K, and even 6K,K as much as you were will hurt you badly if you play a high level Maxi in ATL, which I plan on being one of those by then ;)

Im almost positive he can punish and interupt 6K,K with 6A+B(BE)

6K by itself is -20 on block. 6A+B (BE) is i16. Not sure if the second K will come out quick enough after 6K to interrupt. The biggest problem I had against you is the fact I have no idea how Maxi works in V. I've never bothered to read his frame data to look for a proper 6K punisher so I was just throwing it out there. I rarely if ever use FC 3K so you might be thinking of Dogg on that one. DGF K is another rarity, but I do use it. I mainly use DGF B since it's safe on block now.

Shit, I've never known Maxi or how to handle him so I will definitely be hitting the books on him. After about an hour of training I realize a lot of his stance options can be handled if you just know what to look for, which I've never known what to look for. Give me time man. Give me time. haha

 

[RedDjinn]

6K by itself is -20 on block. 6A+B (BE) is i16. Not sure if the K will come out quick enough after 6K to interrupt. The biggest problem I had against you is the fact I have no idea how Maxi works in V. I've never bothered to read his frame data to look for a proper 6K punisher so I was just throwing it out there. I rarely if ever use FC 3K so you might be thinking of Dogg on that one. DGF K is another rarity, but I do use it. I mainly use DGF B since it's safe on block now.

Shit, I've never known Maxi or how to handle him so I will definitely be hitting the books on him. After about an hour of training I realize a lot of his stance options can be handled if you just know what to look for, which I've never known what to look for. Give me time man. Give me time. haha

Thats what Im saying though... after Blocked DGF B you always did 3B you would have ate 6A+B(BE) after it had I been wanting to go all out...

6A+B will interrupt 6K,K and punish 6K, your correct you didnt use FC 3K much but you used the hell out of DGF K... I blocked it or DGF B into 3B at least once a round, which wouldve been half life both times... after DGF B it would have been CH damage cause your 3B wouldnt beat him out...

Im going to give you time but you should also listen to my advice as Im trying to save you alot of time by not practicing the wrong habits...

Oh and after DGF B use iMCF... its alot better and safer than 3B after that move.

 

[mkl]

Thats what Im saying though... after Blocked DGF B you always did 3B you would have ate 6A+B(BE) after it had I been wanting to go all out...

6A+B will interrupt 6K,K and punish 6K, your correct you didnt use FC 3K much but you used the hell out of DGF K... I blocked it or DGF B into 3B at least once a round, which wouldve been half life both times... after DGF B it would have been CH damage cause your 3B wouldnt beat him out...

Im going to give you time but you should also listen to my advice as Im trying to save you alot of time by not practicing the wrong habits...

6A+B (BE) will not punish 3B after block. 3B is only -14. It won't punish DGF B either which is only -5 on block. You do have the option to interrupt DGF B though. 3B would require 1 frame timing to interrupt. I handled your Yoshi pretty easy, so just give me time to get Maxi down and we'll have a nice fun match at FR.

 

[RedDjinn]

6A+B (BE) will not punish 3B after block. 3B is only -14. I handled your Yoshi pretty easy, so just give me time to get Maxi down and we'll have a nice fun match at FR.

I havent played yoshi since day 4? Also I think you beat my yoshi twice? LOL I lost 4 games won 20?

Im not talking about punishing it im talking about after a blocked DGF B, 6A+B will beat your incoming 3B...

and just for that I want a money match... See you at FR.

 

[BoomSouljah]

You can execute iMCF with 2a:B+K, so just do what you'd normally do for Parting Thrust and press down as you input the A.

srsly?
lab time!

 

[mkl]

I havent played yoshi since day 4? Also I think you beat my yoshi twice? LOL I lost 4 games won 20?

Im not talking about punishing it im talking about after a blocked DGF B, 6A+B will beat your incoming 3B...

and just for that I want a money match... See you at FR.

3-1 on Yoshi mirrors.
1-4 on Maxi.

I am not counting the first few battles we played in which I had default control setup. The 20-4 record you had was against many more people than me. But hey, I'm really not trying to sound overly confident, I truly believe your Maxi is better than my Yoshi right now. We have a lot of time to prepare, and I have never ever faced a good Maxi so I had no idea what to do against anything you threw at me. And as far as pulling out the BE after my DGF B. I could just decide not to throw 3B and you would waste meter and eat a 6K since you would have to pretty well commit to it since 3B is i17 and BE is i16.. It's all mind games. We'll figure it out dude.

Yeah, iMCF is safer. But I'd still get blasted by your BE.

 

[RedDjinn]

3-1 on Yoshi mirrors.
1-4 on Maxi.

I am not counting the first few battles we played in which I had default control setup. But hey, I'm really not trying to sound overly confident, I truly believe your Maxi is better than my Yoshi right now. We have a lot of time to prepare, and I have never ever faced a good Maxi so I had no idea what to do against anything you threw at me. And as far as pulling out the BE after my DGF B. I could just decide not to throw 3B and you would waste meter and eat a 6K. It's all mind games. We'll figure it out dude.

LOL How would I waste meter and eat a 6K? After 6A+B(BE) he has adv to do whatever he wants... try a 6K eat a LI A or LI K into half life...

Man I wasnt even throwing alot of dirty shit at you lastnight LOL I barly did any lows... I could have mixed you up with them all day but I dont do that online...

All I got to say is you better hit the super saiyan time chamber before final round if you plan on beating me offline... and you better bring that money son! LOL No way it was 3-1 yoshi mirrors... I lost 4 games and I know Dr. Dogg was one of those... 2-1 yoshi mirrors 1 with algol and dogg beat me once with yoshi...

Will this be your first tournament? Ill be getting to atlanta on Thursday if you want to get some games in where Im staying at

 

[mkl]

LOL How would I waste meter and eat a 6K? After 6A+B(BE) he has adv to do whatever he wants... try a 6K eat a LI A or LI K into half life...

Man I wasnt even throwing alot of dirty shit at you lastnight LOL I barly did any lows... I could have mixed you up with them all day but I dont do that online...

All I got to say is you better hit the super saiyan time chamber before final round if you plan on beating me offline... and you better bring that money son! LOL No way it was 3-1 yoshi mirrors... I lost 4 games and I know Dr. Dogg was one of those... 2-1 yoshi mirrors 1 with algol and dogg beat me once with yoshi...

Will this be your first tournament? Ill be getting to atlanta on Thursday if you want to get some games in where Im staying at

First major for sure. I'm leaving to Atlanta on Thursday night. 17 hour drive after that. I'll maybe make it in early Friday morning. I'll have to hit you up for a few games.

Don't you get locked in a stance after 6A+B (BE)? I know that LI B (BE) is -25 if you threw the full thing out there on block. I was practicing against Maxi's moves in training and I could punish the 6A+B BE with 6K every time. You can probably block out of the stance if you anticipate it. Not sure, I don't know Maxi yet. I will hopefully learn a bit.

And dude, I know it's all competitive and shit in this scene-- but really I am completely OK with losing to your Maxi. I think you took the "I beat your Yoshi" comment wrong in which I was really just trying to salvage some dignity.

 

[RedDjinn]

First major for sure. I'm leaving to Atlanta on Thursday night. 17 hour drive after that. I'll maybe make it in early Friday morning. I'll have to hit you up for a few games.

Don't you get locked in a stance after 6A+B (BE)? I know that LI B (BE) is -25 if you threw the full thing out there on block. I was practicing against Maxi's moves in training and I could punish the 6A+B BE with 6K every time. You can probably block out of the stance if you anticipate it. Not sure, I don't know Maxi yet. I will hopefully learn a bit.

Yea Im trying to help you but you arent really listening LOL LI A, or probably even K will beat anything you do ... best thing to do is either step or block after 6A+B(BE)... You cant test maxi after certain moves... like 22/88A on block you kept trying to hit me after and LI A will stuff you everytime, once you start respecting that then thats when he gets his transitions into other stances or mix ups... Frames arent really anything to go by with him, because although his shit might be -on block he can still transition or do another move sometimes to technically make it safish? is the word maybe? lol

The mitsurugi SA has a whole thread on how to beat maxi, you should take a look at it... I dont like fighting uneducated opponents so the more you learn the better it will be for both of us, hence why im trying to give you some advice...

Hopefully Im going to make a punishment video with him this weekend and that will help me know whats punishable and kinda get it into my memory before final round...

JESUS 17 hours! thats dedication! Where you coming from bro?

 

[mkl]

Yea Im trying to help you but you arent really listening LOL LI A, or probably even K will beat anything you do ... best thing to do is either step or block after 6A+B(BE)... You cant test maxi after certain moves... like 22/88A on block you kept trying to hit me after and LI A will stuff you everytime, once you start respecting that then thats when he gets his transitions into other stances or mix ups... Frames arent really anything to go by with him, because although his shit might be -on block he can still transition or do another move sometimes to technically make it safish? is the word maybe? lol

The mitsurugi SA has a whole thread on how to beat maxi, you should take a look at it... I dont like fighting uneducated opponents so the more you learn the better it will be for both of us, hence why im trying to give you some advice...

Hopefully Im going to make a punishment video with him this weekend and that will help me know whats punishable and kinda get it into my memory before final round...

JESUS 17 hours! thats dedication! Where you coming from bro?

I'm listening and bouncing ideas off, but there's no reason to talk down just because of the inexperience. And yeah, the 22_88A attempt to interrupt was really stupid looking back on it haha. Another instance of many of just complete lack of knowledge against him. I'll definitely try to get up to snuff against Maxi by the time I leave but I'm pretty sure it won't be quite enough time to really grasp the entire picture.

All the way from Nebraska. I've had a shit ton of vacation days built up and a bunch of my friends were willing to split the cost of going down there. Hopefully they won't be disappointed when I don't place anywhere high at all.

 

[DrDogg]

I know Maxi enough to know when I can interrupt, but I haven't gone into the lab with that matchup yet (I plan to before FR).

My main problem last night was that I can't block for shit online, especially in a 3 bar connection (since I'm west coast). mkl was doing a lot of unsafe stuff and I couldn't do anything about it. I couldn't even block DGF mixups or punish properly.

Red was just hitting me with all kinds of things that I simply couldn't block on reaction. Same with mkl's Algol. That forced me to play super defensive and stop moving, which just led to loss after loss. I actually think my ZWEI was doing better because I don't know him as well as I know Yoshi, so my movement wasn't as important.

Good games still, but the more I play SCV online, the more I can't stand it. I need to play online for the matchup experience, but it's so frustrating... especially against mkl. No offense, but you play really unsafe. You're going to be in for a rude awakening at FR if you don't adjust your game a bit. You should definitely listen to Red though, everything he's saying is correct.

See you guys at FR.

 

[RedDjinn]

I know Maxi enough to know when I can interrupt, but I haven't gone into the lab with that matchup yet (I plan to before FR).

My main problem last night was that I can't block for shit online, especially in a 3 bar connection (since I'm west coast). mkl was doing a lot of unsafe stuff and I couldn't do anything about it. I couldn't even block DGF mixups or punish properly.

Red was just hitting me with all kinds of things that I simply couldn't block on reaction. Same with mkl's Algol. That forced me to play super defensive and stop moving, which just led to loss after loss. I actually think my ZWEI was doing better because I don't know him as well as I know Yoshi, so my movement wasn't as important.

Good games still, but the more I play SCV online, the more I can't stand it. I need to play online for the matchup experience, but it's so frustrating... especially against mkl. No offense, but you play really unsafe. You're going to be in for a rude awakening at FR if you don't adjust your game a bit. You should definitely listen to Red though, everything he's saying is correct.

See you guys at FR.

Yo I didnt know you were going to FR? Hype... a few arizona people will be there then... are the Twins and detroit ballin and marvaz coming as well?

I know what you mean about the punishment thing, I block things ok even in the lag but punishment is where people get away with alot of things... Your Zwei was nice man I think if you added in a little more throw/low mix ups after you called EIN out youd be good to go...

All yoshi players will def have to get some games in at FR... Ill text you guys my number if you like.

 

[RedDjinn]

3-1 on Yoshi mirrors.
1-4 on Maxi.

I am not counting the first few battles we played in which I had default control setup. The 20-4 record you had was against many more people than me. But hey, I'm really not trying to sound overly confident, I truly believe your Maxi is better than my Yoshi right now. We have a lot of time to prepare, and I have never ever faced a good Maxi so I had no idea what to do against anything you threw at me. And as far as pulling out the BE after my DGF B. I could just decide not to throw 3B and you would waste meter and eat a 6K since you would have to pretty well commit to it since 3B is i17 and BE is i16.. It's all mind games. We'll figure it out dude.

Yeah, iMCF is safer. But I'd still get blasted by your BE.

Reading back through this im not sure you quite understand frame data correctly... I think I can help... If im wrong then Im sorry just some of your wording confused me.

If you do DGF B and are at -5 and your next move is i17 that makes it a total of 22 Frames for your 3B to come out...

In which 6A+B(BE) will obviously smoke that at i16 with plenty of reach... So your 3B has alot more than a 1 frame window to be beat...

Also if you did iMCF after DGF B that would make iMCF i15 which would beat out my i16 BE which was why I was telling you to do that... <-- This, 4b, and 22/88K are really some of the only block iMCF traps he has left.

Did you know all this or were you thinking another way ? Because you said it would still get beat even if you used iMCF on block when really it wouldnt, BUT you would have the 1 frame to beat me out, So I tag it as risky...

 

[DrDogg]

Yo I didnt know you were going to FR? Hype... a few arizona people will be there then... are the Twins and detroit ballin and marvaz coming as well?

I know what you mean about the punishment thing, I block things ok even in the lag but punishment is where people get away with alot of things... Your Zwei was nice man I think if you added in a little more throw/low mix ups after you called EIN out youd be good to go...

All yoshi players will def have to get some games in at FR... Ill text you guys my number if you like.

I'm going, the twins are going and a few Anime players are going. Jedirobb will also be there, but I don't think he's playing. Detroit was going to go, but last I heard he doesn't have the money. I haven't heard anything from Marvaz so I can't say about him.

My ZWEI is all Ein at the moment, and my pressure game isn't quite where it needs to be with him. I need to add more of his "normals" and up my pressure game a bit, then I'll be happy with him. I'd like to lead off with him at FR and switch to Yoshi if need be. I don't think many people will have ZWEI experience. But if he's not ready then I'll go Yoshi the whole way.

 

[mkl]

Reading back through this im not sure you quite understand frame data correctly... I think I can help... If im wrong then Im sorry just some of your wording confused me.

If you do DGF B and are at -5 and your next move is i17 that makes it a total of 22 Frames for your 3B to come out...

In which 6A+B(BE) will obviously smoke that at i16 with plenty of reach... So your 3B has alot more than a 1 frame window to be beat...

Also if you did iMCF after DGF B that would make iMCF i15 which would beat out my i16 BE which was why I was telling you to do that... <-- This, 4b, and 22/88K are really some of the only block iMCF traps he has left.

Did you know all this or were you thinking another way ? Because you said it would still get beat even if you used iMCF on block when really it wouldnt, BUT you would have the 1 frame to beat me out, So I tag it as risky...

Yeah, just didn't think about the negative frames after DGF B (I was up for about 24+ hours straight at this point). That would be massively risky to attempt. If you miss you get 2A, you eat it. If you're late you eat it. And when half life is on the line I am going to cower away in fear. I did a lot of testing on 6A+B (BE) and I can only figure out to step it but even then it's only 16 frames. That shit is huuuuge.

Good games still, but the more I play SCV online, the more I can't stand it. I need to play online for the matchup experience, but it's so frustrating... especially against mkl. No offense, but you play really unsafe. You're going to be in for a rude awakening at FR if you don't adjust your game a bit. You should definitely listen to Red though, everything he's saying is correct.

See you guys at FR.

I do play pretty risky but to deal a lot of damage quickly with Yoshi you pretty much have to take risks. This is the mentality I've developed after a lot of online play. I've also been playing way too much online lately which makes me think everyone I face online is retarded and will eat day one shit. The worst thing I overuse is 6KK which I only do due to opponent matchup ignorance. Most people will either duck the second thinking 6K2K still exists or they will block both making the string pseudo safe. I think this will work very minimally offline even for people who haven't put in the work against Yoshi. I'll definitely shed the online only tactics for FR. I'm just happy to have a few guys like you there to keep me in check. I'll be humble all day! haha