Tier Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Her meterless bnb is 63 damage (3B AAB 2A+B 1A+B), that's respectable.

Damage is NOT Viola's weakness.

To put this in perspective: Siegfried's meterless BnB is 39 damage - 3(B) ~ SCH K - and Siegfried is generally known for doing outrageous absurd amounts of damage (which is wrong). Anyone who cites poor damage as the reason why she's terrible or trash or whatever should probably be written off as ignorant of the character.
 
To put this in perspective: Siegfried's meterless BnB is 39 damage - 3(B) ~ SCH K - and Siegfried is generally known for doing outrageous absurd amounts of damage (which is wrong). Anyone who cites poor damage as the reason why she's terrible or trash or whatever should probably be written off as ignorant of the character.
How's the oki after that? does SCH B catch rolls and RSH transition threaten a mixup for those who get up?

I started playing Sieg again for fun, but damn it's frustrating.
 
*sigh* Anyone who puts Sieg as bottom tier hasn't played a good Sieg player. It's like comparing him to rock, and he's not THAT bad. a competant Sieg player can still win a tournament, he'd just have to try hard. Does he still need a mechanics and damage buff? very much so.
 
I have to agree that dmg isn't Violas problem at all. The problem is that she is very repetitive and weak to any long range attacks that keep her out of her pressure game.

I DEFINITLY agree that Siggi's dmg is pathetic compared to his speed. It is a real pity that Siggi is that weak in SCV since I enjoyed him in SCIV and SCIII.
 
*sigh* Anyone who puts Sieg as bottom tier hasn't played a good Sieg player. It's like comparing him to rock, and he's not THAT bad. a competant Sieg player can still win a tournament, he'd just have to try hard. Does he still need a mechanics and damage buff? very much so.

In SCIV, I was a good Siegfried player and I can play him well in SCV. I believe he is very low as a character currently.
His throw game is low damage
He has apalling backstep and sidestep
All of his tools are flawed.

In SCIV, top Siegfried players were a mixture of solid fundamentals, good reads and gimmicks. Even until the end of SCIV, a lot of high level players did not know their anti-Siegfried properly and the added gimmicks made the matches easier. One need only look at Pantocrator bodying half of team USA to see that and even Bibulus who is very knowledgable about characters in the game got a lot of details wrong in commentary.
One can also look at the high level US players who still don't know Sieg properly and post their thoughts on him here: people who stupidly post shit like '22A needs to be + on block' in attempted irony and the bandwagon of retards following them. Siegs issue in V is that while he is defenitely stronger than in IV, in IV you could to an extent get by just from playing solid, but now the gimmicks are absolutely necessary and in a game where everyone is a damage monster, its like playing a bear in tekken - there are so many do or die 50/50's that he has to use. He's just not viable against someone who knows their anti Siegfried well and even Pantocrator agrees with me. We were talking at Cannes and he himself said 'If Siegfried is not buffed in patches, then I will drop him.' (Imagine it with a French accent)

Believe it or not, Siegfried players are not whiney little bitches: Siegfried has some serious problems that need to be fixed for him to be truly tournament viable and anyone who says otherwise needs to brush up on their Sieg knowledge.
 
Pantocrator agrees with me. We were talking at Cannes and he himself said 'If Siegfried is not buffed in patches, then I will drop him.' (Imagine it with a French accent)

Breaking my rule about not posting in tier debates until 6 months in because it's stupid to post this:

I also imagine Panto saying with with a half open shirt and his manly chest sticking out. He truly deserves a better deal than he had.
 
Believe it or not, Siegfried players are not whiney little bitches: Siegfried has some serious problems that need to be fixed for him to be truly tournament viable and anyone who says otherwise needs to brush up on their Sieg knowledge.

Sinners need no mercy...or sympathy.
 
So I just played a lot with Dampierre, and he needs his own tier...

Dampierre is now holy father of mary, what the holy flying fuck did I just fight?? tier.
 
For the first time ever I really don't have much to say about tier lists. This game has a lot of factors affecting tiers. One such factor being JG.

I will point out Alpha Pat that everyone is highlighting as possibly top. Yet his shit is so easy to JG and punish. NM who probably has the worst frames in the game appeared low tier, but has the best step/backdash in the game making him one of the best whiff punishers.

Tiers at the moment are a unknown. But my pick for best characters, are probably Lexia and Maxi at the moment.
 
I disagree - when people start JGing 1B:B, we can happily swith to 236B easily. All we need is that, a step killer, the godly throws, twister and 1AAA, none of which will be especially warped in use by JG.
 
I don't think a lot of people will be able to Just Guard 1B:B in VS. It seems more difficult than GI'ing 1B:B on reaction in SC4.
 
I don't think a lot of people will be able to Just Guard 1B:B in VS. It seems more difficult than GI'ing 1B:B on reaction in SC4.
The timing is stricter, but I'm doing it about 80% consistently vs human opposition now. I love offline Alpha mirrors - its basically a patience contest, lol.
 
I'm so glad that Namco decided to make JG more difficult than in early game builds where you just had to press G at the right moment. I think that would have made the game unplayable really quickly. But even now it seems it's possible to JG moves like BB (as Keev shown in the WGC grand finals) so I wonder how this will work one year from now.
 
I'm so glad that Namco decided to make JG more difficult than in early game builds where you just had to press G at the right moment. I think that would have made the game unplayable really quickly. But even now it seems it's possible to JG moves like BB (as Keev shown in the WGC grand finals) so I wonder how this will work one year from now.

I've pulled off maybe two just guards since I got the game, both accidentally in online vs; I still can't do it in training, or offline. Forget about consistently, I can't even JG nightmare's AA in training after 50 tries. Perhaps I'm segueing too much, but of anything, I would think JG would affect slower characters (nm, asty, aeon) than faster ones (apat, natsu).
 
Keev wins Tournament wth NM
Partisan wins Tournament with NM
OmegaDR wins Tournament with NM.

Conclusion - These are all TOP TIER PLAYERS. Not top tier characters. Any character can be beast in the right hands, especially in this game.

Also, it is simply, A-MA-ZING how many people in chat were asking for Tiers. Begging for Tiers. Pleading for Tiers. Its like ALOT OF PEOPLE WILL TOUCH THE GAME unless they know they can pick a character thats no lower than top tier, giving them an easier time at this game supposedly.

I'm going to have to make a Strong Match Up Tier List. Just Cuz.
 
I personally think Siegfried is fine the way he is in terms of damage. I believe the developers nerfed Siegfried in an effort to balance out the game as a whole and in my opinion, it has. He's got great mixups and mindgames and if he's hitting as much as Natsu's bomb, thats just retarded.
 
Once we all can effectively utilize the JG mechanic, we can discuss tiers. But its quite obvious NM, Natsu, & Oprah are all high tier at this moment.
 
"You could never understand."

On topic: I believe Sieg needs a tracking/hitbox fix and buffed damage because the way it is at the moment, it's too low for the risk you have to take to get it. If someone guesses correctly on what you're doing in SRSH say bye to half of your health. Why can't he damage them like that for guessing wrong? If he could deal the damage others deal for winning that 50/50 and various others he wouldn't be half bad.

Oh and fix that stupid BT SSH 6B+K "back hops" that shit pisses me off. I still can't think of why that exist. If that move worked while facing forward it would be possible to bait whiffs... Which reminds me to ask, why are his stance transitions so slow in the first place. 2_8 barely evades anything unless you QS before it. SBH transition takes too long for the aGI to be useful in clutch situations. SCV Sieg stance moves in general are much more predictable than in SCIV.

SCV Sieg pisses me off! >.<
 
Tiers at the moment are a unknown. But my pick for best characters, are probably Lexia and Maxi at the moment.
What the... I'd be very interested in how you arrived at that conclusion. Leixia has an appalingly bad mix-up game. She literally has only 2 fast lows and not a single one of them combos. She's also extremely linear, with most of her launchers and combo-starters being either high or highly steppable and her damage isn't really top notch either, with or without meter, unless she manages to get very situational combos off of CH.

And she's slower than her mother. At least X often had the speed advantage when it came to out-poking her opponent. Leixia lacks low grabs, which limits her mix-up abilities even more. The problem with Leixia is and will always remain, barring re-design, a lack of mix-up options.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom