Is a Nightmare nerf coming? =(

[sephalump]

along with various bugs/glitches that need to be gone too. I bet ZWEI players have their fingers crossed for this since ZWEI was basically revealed to be embarrassingly gimmicky and full of holes on day one

Just because you seem to be open minded, he is a functional character. Just difficult and complex. You have to outplay your opponent more than they have to outplay you but he has the potential to work. Most the people in the Zwei soul arena crying arent using him how he should be, simple as that. Which I hate to say since I mod the arena. Sure he's weaker than most the cast but people saying he is absolutely terrible/shit/can't win are exaggerating. A lot.

 

[Nine-L]

Just because you seem to be open minded, he is a functional character. Just difficult and complex. You have to outplay your opponent more than they have to outplay you but he has the potential to work. Most the people in the Zwei soul arena crying arent using him how he should be, simple as that. Which I hate to say since I mod the arena. Sure he's weaker than most the cast but people saying he is absolutely terrible/shit/can't win are exaggerating. A lot.

Open-minded? Nah, just... minded. I honestly don't know ZWEI that well, the impression I get from what I've read/most have told me was that he's just pretty gimmicky (I still giggle over the quote "ZWEI is too gimmicky to deserve a buff, get him off the roster"), and I figured that impression wasn't entirely untrue since I haven't seen ANYTHING from the character since the days of yore surrounding the launch. I'll try to STFU on the subject and learn more about him, which will be hard to do since I have just zero desire to play the character, haha.

Back on Nightmare nerfs, I doubt anything will happen... yet. Considering the nerfherders can't even get their stories straight I don't see how it could.

The whole thing is nonsense of the highest order, though. It all just translates into "WAAAAAH NIGHTMARE PLAYERS SHOULDN'T BE REWARDED FOR OUTPLAYING AND/OR WHIFF PUNISHING ME WAAAAAH."

Which is what crying for nerfs for ANY character before we even hit the two month mark of a game's lifespan sounds like anyway.

On the bright side, everything that taffertier said on this subject was unadulterated comedy gold, so there's that.

Really, Nightmare doesn't feel remarkably different from where he was in SCIV, just a little buffed up by having some actual rewards for his risks now.

 

[Twiz]

-Make WR K -9 on block +3 on hit.
-Make iagA i15 and agA i16 (seriously i don't get this one at all. why is it backwards?)
-Give the man at least one safe way into NSS. Seriously PS what the hell were you thinking? His only safe way into NSS is tip range 3B. Which i'm sure is probably still punishable by a few of the cast. And when the character can't punish it the pushback is so ridiculous you can only follow up with GS A which can be JG'd on reaction. D:< (my little rant is over).

All in all I like NM the way he his. He's a risk/reward character and seeing as how he takes risk with damn near every move his damage and RO capability is justified. Top tier my ass people need to quit whining.

That's just my opinion though d:

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

Safe entries into NSS? You've got 44b for that, but there are usually ways to make other entries pseudo-safe.

 

[Omega]

Ughhhhhm they are going to take soul edge away from nightmare.

 

[Nine-L]

-Make iagA i15 and agA i16 (seriously i don't get this one at all. why is it backwards?)

I always figured it was because iagA wall splats while agA does not. So I look at it like, agA is faster for use in mid-stage spacing and iagA is for combos. Not something that really bothers me, though.

-Give the man at least one safe way into NSS. Seriously PS what the hell were you thinking? His only safe way into NSS is tip range 3B. Which i'm sure is probably still punishable by a few of the cast. And when the character can't punish it the pushback is so ridiculous you can only follow up with GS A which can be JG'd on reaction. D:< (my little rant is over).

The 44B NSS transition is +2 on block. After blocked 44B into NSS, it actually seems like an immediate NSS A+B is totally uninterruptible. I haven't seen anyone stop it yet, at least.

EDIT: dammit, half this post got ninja'd by DeathInMyEyes. Should've typed faster and not gotten up to piss mid-post. -1 internets.

 

[Twiz]

Safe entries into NSS? You've got 44b for that, but there are usually ways to make other entries pseudo-safe.

All options can be beaten out by a delayed FC A. I tested it myself while writing up the punish guide for Voldo.
If you delay the FC A slightly NSS K will go over your head and you will punish. It beats out all other attacks.

 

[Nine-L]

Promo trailer for the patch says there's over 240 changes to the game, including move changes for EVERY character.

So chances are that everyone will get fucked up and not just Nightmare.

 

[KingAce]

Well I know they read this forum. But NM seems to be getting his throw damage reduced by 10 points. His really starting look like Zas in 4. Zas's throw damage was also garbage because he was a throw/mid character. And his GSB doesn't track as it used.

 

[Nine-L]

Well I know they read this forum. But NM seems to be getting his throw damage reduced by 10 points. His really starting look like Zas in 4. Zas's throw damage was also garbage because he was a throw/mid character. And his GSB doesn't track as it used.

Source?

 

[KingAce]

Wait until Monday.

 

[Nine-L]

That's not a source.

 

[hteng]

well i guess they can reduce his grab's hit box, it's really weird, sometimes you can grab people at tip range, like if someone whiffed an AA, he can grab them at a pretty absurd range.

 

[IkI]

It means monday there will be a leak :p or just un official info :o

His grab range is fine, he has a huge claw

 

[Tiamat]

The 44B NSS transition is +2 on block. After blocked 44B into NSS, it actually seems like an immediate NSS A+B is totally uninterruptible. I haven't seen anyone stop it yet, at least.

fast FC As and other quick enough moves should beat out NSS A+B from a blocked 44(B). it's just that usually the moves that beat NSS A+B lose to NSS K in this situation


also I want to say that nerfing throw damage is one of the laziest nerfs you can give a character. Look at sieg. it's pretty stupid

 

[taffertier]

On the bright side, everything that taffertier said on this subject was unadulterated comedy gold, so there's that.

Unlike you i actually try to look at characters objectively instead of the typical nightmare playerbase who needs to make threads to pat themselves on the back and assure each other it will be alright. Ideally of course the optimal route would be to buff the lower characters up to Nighties level but that realistically is not going to happen. Rather than respond with "Oh haha you so funny" Why not try and counter my claims like an adult?

 

[srsgamer87]

Unlike you i actually try to look at characters objectively instead of the typical nightmare playerbase who needs to make threads to pat themselves on the back and assure each other it will be alright. Ideally of course the optimal route would be to buff the lower characters up to Nighties level but that realistically is not going to happen. Rather than respond with "Oh haha you so funny" Why not try and counter my claims like an adult?

They won't counter your claims because they can't, the only argument i've seen from them so far is that NM "isn't safe" as they point to his frame data. LOL. The frame data doesn't tell the whole story like his pushback, stepgame, his CE...I could go on.

And yes this whole thread is a giant circlejerk for NM mains to feel better. Can't wait till Monday when they release the patches notes and he gets nerfed, I'll be sure to post here and gloat when it happens :).

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

All options can be beaten out by a delayed FC A. I tested it myself while writing up the punish guide for Voldo.
If you delay the FC A slightly NSS K will go over your head and you will punish. It beats out all other attacks.

Have you checked canceling the stance or backstepping in stance? If neither of those work at close range, then it should work at tip range. I'd test it myself, but the PS3 is alllllll the way in the other room.

I can't fight Nightmare, he must be too good.

Yes, quite. Hmm.

In the words of Charlie the Unicorn, shun the nonbelievers! Seriously though, I really don't want what happened to the patch thread to happen to this thread. You're entitled to your opinion, but don't come in here and interrupt our circlejerk. Its quite nice.

 

[TadeMasu]

I know a bit of the patch details about NM. To say the least..... I'm maining my secondary now. Since SC2 in 2003 I've mained NM. But if they decide to fix him after the patch, I'll go back to him. Looks like I'm sticking to ZWEI for now!

 

[Twiz]

Have you checked canceling the stance or backstepping in stance? If neither of those work at close range, then it should work at tip range. I'd test it myself, but the PS3 is alllllll the way in the other room.

At range FC A whiffs obviously. d: But no at close range a delayed FC A beats everything. It causes the NSS K to whiff and you can punish and beats the rest of the NSS options. Still pretty much the same as 3B]. At anything but tip range Voldo can use WR K to punish but at tip range NM is completely safe from retaliation. Honestly NM seems to have alot of moves that are safe at tip range but not up close.....