SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

Furzy said:
Sure you can. I completely disagree with this.
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Furzy I have enormous respect for your Yoshi and your opinion, so im guessing there is something big you know about SC5 Yoshi that i completely missed lol. Could please explain to me how is he even close to as good as SC4 Yoshi?
 
Senzait said:
Furzy I have enormous respect for your Yoshi and your opinion, so im guessing there is something big you know about SC5 Yoshi that i completely missed lol. Could please explain to me how is he even close to as good as SC4 Yoshi?
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Thanks :) I've been away from 8wayrun for a long time and have just read some of the posts here and there. I gotta say I'm disapointed most of you think this new yoshi isn't especially good. I think most of you try to play him the same way you played him in SC4 so of course he seems like crap.

Here's what I think about this new Yoshi:
• Forget about the old yoshi. Don't try and play with his stances because obviously, they're not that good. They weren't even godlike in SC4 unless you played against scrubby opponents.
• 6K is the shit. With the new step system and step~guard being a lot more difficult, it's easy to nail CH with it for almost 60 dmg on a single hit. Sure, it's punishable so what? Yoshi was already a pretty unsafe character in SC4, still all of you seem to agree he was top tier.
• 44A is a safe mid that tracks both sides and knocks down opponent on NH. Get in range and your opponents will lose their mind.
• iMCF is still fast, TC and gives you a combo on CH, even with RO properties.
• Yoshi's basics are among the best of the game. His AA is fast has good range. His BB has even better range and the second one catches a lot of backdashing moves like Mitsurugi's 4B. He has a good 3K, a 3B that's TC and hits in many auto-GI (like Maxi's and Cervy's) and good throws.
• He has tons of TC moves.
• His step~punish game is sick. 22B, 6K, 22K are only some options. Add 33B, CE, throws and you can see how good he is.
• His throws are still among the best of the game too. No tech possible afterwards so you can still apply pressure.
• He still has some sick unblockable tech traps that can take away almost 50% life bar on a simple launcher such as 3B (which is only -14 btw, most characters can't punish it that hard).
• He has a wall splat from the side with 6K with a huge combo. A lot of opponents still don't expect it.
• His current wake-up game is the best he ever had imo. Mix FC3K, 3B, 4KB and throws. Lots of opponents including some of the best european players (Keev, Maxou, etc.) have compared him to Amy.
• FC3K still has huge range and RCC~3B keeps them at close range. How sick is that?
• 4A is a fast antistep with nice range that gives +2 on hit, no matter how many times you hit A.
• His CE takes almost half life from the opponent. HALF LIFE!
• If you get used to JG, he's really fearsome!

Sure there are some things that disapoint me of course, like the Tekken moves, RO combos like in SC4, etc. But all in all I think he's actually BETTER than in SC4, he's a lot more scary for my opponents.

So yeah, I think this yoshi has to be played very simple but is very solid and very very powerful. Also, please don't take it bad RedDjinn, but when I read your last post:
Why are people trying to defend this Yoshi? This yoshi isnt great... Its ok to main a low to mid tier character... He doesnt always have to be cream of the crop... He has many holes in his game, his combos are risky, but his damage is mediocre except on walls... Zero safe options to get inside... Ring out game is good... Pokes are ok... Stances are bullshit... every now and then you might hit a DGF K on a good player... still your taking a huge risk to start that 70 dmg combo... lol Throw game is good... Lows are average... FC 3k and 2k being the only really good ones... Yet one is half life punishable and only leads to 40 dmg... Almost all iMCF set ups are gone on block... Tekken moves are trash because A+K is trash... MED A+B is trash can be back stepped then full combo'd with some characters... Your little SDGF K anytime you are using it after 1K, 8A you can be hit out of the air by simple pokes... All MED mix ups can be punished on reaction by B,B, most CE's , or G:7 into whiff punish... a:B+K is dumb as hell for the effort now on hit -6...
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Damage mediocre? NO.
Zero safe options to get inside? If you're looking for a something as easy as astaroth's bullrush, sure you'll be disapointed.
Ring out game is good? I think it's excellent.
Pokes are ok? NO, they're great.
Stances are bullshit? I wouldn't say bullshit but sure, they're not great, they never were.
Lows are average? NO.
Throw game is good? NO, it's great pressure.

All in all, I see you complaining that his gimmick game is not safe and risky?? You're talking about moves like DGF K, MED A+B or SDGF K?? What I'm trying to say is, stop playing with gimmicks and start playing solid with Yoshi! If you want a gimmicky character, play Dampierre. It's like saying "Astaroth is bad… he's not a good pitbull character", it doesn't make any sense. And this message is not only for RedDjinn :p By the way, you can't judge a character's move if you can't use the move whenever you want. You complain about aB+K because it's difficult? Train it! The move is still great, believe it.

I think you'll all laugh at your own posts in a year or so :) Or maybe I will laugh at mine, hope not ;p

See ya.

P.S: If any of you are interested, I made a top 10 moves topic on the soulcalibur.fr. It's in french but you'll probably understand most of it even without speaking the language. http://soulcalibur.fr/index.php?threads/top-10-movelist-de-yoshimitsu.13363/
 
Furzy said:
*snip*
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Just about everything you claim to be good and superior to SC4 Yoshi, I can find a fault in. As an example, most of Yoshi's TC attacks take quite a few frames to TC. This is bad compared to most other characters. iMCF tech crouches in 6 frames. Compare that to Natsu's 3B which TCs in 0 frames, or aPat's 3B which TCs in 4 frames. Sure, he has 214A, 44B+K, or 1K. They aren't "bad", but none of those are as useful/safe as 3B from Natsu or aPat. Mind you, this is just an example, but I don't think I'm pulling at straws to say that SC5 Yoshi has a tough fight against most of the cast and struggles to stay mid-tier.

Do I use almost everything you've listed here? Yes. It most certainly doesn't make this Yoshi better than SC4 Yoshi. I've already stopped trying to play like SC4 Yoshi a long time ago. My current SC5 Yoshi got me tied for 17th at Final Round (out of 250+), and I could've made top 16 if I had more Maxi experience. The only Yoshi to place better than me was Lolo, and there's absolutely no shame in that. So it's not like I don't know what I'm doing.

Will I stop playing Yoshi? No.
Did I expect at least a small buff in this patch? Yes.
Do I think SC5 Yoshi is anywhere near as good as SC4 Yoshi? No.
Do I think Yoshi is anywhere near top tier in SC5? No.

And if anyone here is going to claim I want "super OP broken, OMG, WTF Yoshi" you need to quote me saying something to back that up. I have said NOTHING to indicate I want a broken version of Yoshi.
 
You can find a fault in everything I claimed to be good??

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Sorry but I think what you're asking for is perfection :p Of course those moves have flaws, what move doesn't? btw, 214A is TC in 2 frames. And I do think Yoshi is like mid+ in this game. Lolo, back me up? Am I alone here? ahaha
 
Well, I have to disagree I just dont see all that available to him that you mentioned as being such a "great" thing, everything you said is mediocre or not really that great compared to other characters. Like I said his basic game is good. He has to get in and stay in to use that game though, maybe this backdash nerf will help with some of the problems I was having with him.

His damage is mediocre (compared to alot of characters), I dont call 65 to 70dmg very hype and thats if you even hit the iMCF/a:B+K... his ringout game isnt that great, all his shit is horrible to get in... I dont find a:B+K difficult at all I can hit it 100% of the time but for the amount of effort some players have to put forth the reward isnt worth it and no adv on normal hit... Throwing out 6K to "Stop step" is pretty much a death wish against some characters
-18 even if you do the follow up K... 22B whiffs constantly... 22K is high and super punishable when ducked... 66/33/99/ A punishable... All his BE's are trash... 2 are even punishable? Shit that is rare alot of peoples BE's are at least safe or give ADV not punishable :(

He doesnt have tons of TC moves that I know of? iMCF, 214A, 22b(maybe?), 1k and 11/77A? 3B's TC is so short its almost not even useful... oh and A+B but whos going to get hit by that? and all of his UB tech traps can be JG'd once people get used to it then your hurting... Ive already had people JG'ing my deathcopter traps more than once online and offline... at least on SDGF B JG I think they only get like a,a or b,b punish.

I commented on SDGF K,K and stances because people before my post mentioned it I was just telling them its dumb to even try against most good opponents. I dont use SDGF K,K... SDGF A,B, 2B+K and throws are about all I use if I ever even use that stance... 3K can actually be stepped yet its supposed to stop step... Hes so linear... He has PLENTY of bad match ups...

I havnt seen many vids of your new play with this yoshi but when I did it mostly consisted of you doing iFC 3K and 4K,B mix ups... 4k,B is easily JG'd or stepped whatever you choose. Thank god your iFC 3K use is godlike ;)

I do look forward to you making me look silly and me looking back and laughing at my post ( God knows Ive done this before ) lol but this time I think Im right.

Ill try to re evaluate my game with him once again and concentrate on the basics with this new patch and maybe something will finally click with him.

Either way thanks for explaining, Ive always loved watching you play as Yoshi so I hope for more vids in the future maybe you can re light my fire for him :(

On a side note everyone knows after 44A on hit you get doorknockers most of the time right?

Ill agree his mid but not mid+
 
I understand how you feel DrDogg, that's how I felt at the begining, and Furzy felt that way too for some time too, until you find an effective game for you, you will feel like that, Yoshi is not the same as SC4, and I miss a lot Tekken moves, the fun/surprise factor is not as good as in 4.

But that doesn't mean that Yoshi is not better than in 4, he is prolly as strong or stronger than in 4, the problem is that there are lots of strong chars in this game, but how many of them can have so many UB! setups that can make cry the strongest player in the world, his lows are among the best, 3B being -14 instead -17 like in 4 is great, plus, we have another launcher if you wanna go safe, 3B+K is -4 on block, Yoshi can punish better than in 4 thanks to BB being !14.

Yoshi is still fun, I still go crazy with stances, but gotta be creative and risk from time to time, overall I find easier to win with this Yoshi, and no way he is mid tier, he is top and more now that he was untouched in the patch, and some other like leixia and natsu are nerfed, even night received a small nerfing.

And I love his BE, every one of them has it's purpose, I thought they were trash too, but now I spam them.
 
lolo said:
I understand how you feel DrDogg, that's how I felt at the begining, and Furzy felt that way too for some time too, until you find an effective game for you, you will feel like that, Yoshi is not the same as SC4, and I miss a lot Tekken moves, the fun/surprise factor is not as good as in 4.

But that doesn't mean that Yoshi is not better than in 4, he is prolly as strong or stronger than in 4, the problem is that there are lots of strong chars in this game, but how many of them can have so many UB! setups that can make cry the strongest player in the world, his lows are among the best, 3B being -14 instead -17 like in 4 is great, plus, we have another launcher if you wanna go safe, 3B+K is -4 on block, Yoshi can punish better than in 4 thanks to BB being !14.

Yoshi is still fun, I still go crazy with stances, but gotta be creative and risk from time to time, overall I find easier to win with this Yoshi, and no way he is mid tier, he is top and more now that he was untouched in the patch, and some other like leixia and natsu are nerfed, even night received a small nerfing.

And I love his BE, every one of them has it's purpose, I thought they were trash too, but now I spam them.
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Furzy and Lolo have said exactly what I felt. I'm in the same boat feeling Yoshi is top tier in this game ESPECIALLY now that the other characters have been brought down while Yoshi has remained mostly unchanged.
 
I'm finding his CE to be an awesome punisher and the damage is foolish on it. But let's not talk about that too much now that we've seen what Namco will do to characters people think are good haha!!

I would love to hear the uses some of you found for his BE game. Off of a CH a:B+K you can follow up with MCF, 66A, BE, b:A for like 108 damage or something and of course in wall combos. 3 A, B BE is decent off of 22K but I'm seeing no point at all to 6B BE other than a bit of range. I guess it's still fast but I don't feel it worth the cost of meter compare to saving up for his CE. Clearly though, some of you have found more use out of it than I have. SO PONY UP!!!
 
hey guys i recently picked up yoshi as my third and I can hold my own against a decent player at most xD What I wanna know is how the shit do you execute aB+K? I trained for an hour trying to get it and I got nothing. Any tips?
 
Furzy said:
P.S: If any of you are interested, I made a top 10 moves topic on the soulcalibur.fr. It's in french but you'll probably understand most of it even without speaking the language. http://soulcalibur.fr/index.php?threads/top-10-movelist-de-yoshimitsu.13363/
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As an exercise in my français tellement rouillé (my very rusty french), here is a quick translation, if anyone is interested. It is, as you said, very easy to understand even for non-francophones, but whatever. Furzy, please let me know if you take exception to any of my interpretations.

1. FC3K = the sweeper
+ long range!
+ fast (for a low), impossible to block on reaction (if iFC is mastered)
+ opens up guard (low)
+ completely anti-step
+ TC! (finally)
+ knocks down
+ RCC~3B combos and keeps opponent in mixup range
+ correct damage
– very punishable, most get a launcher against it on block

2. 3B = the basic launcher
+ fast
+ TC
+ combos with 6K or a:B+K
+ anti-step to Yoshi’s left
+ wallsplats and RO
+ goes straight through certain auto-GIs (tested on Maxi and Cervantes, doesn’t work against Pyrrha’s A+B)
+ hits grounded and keeps opponent in mixup range
+ can be abused against certain people with poor punishers (-14 on block)
– punishable

3. The Throws
+ excellent range for a close-range character
+ anti-step (maybe true for everyone in SC5, untested)
+ “pas de tech possible pour l’adversaire.” (ed.—the opponent can’t tech? not sure what you’re saying here)
+ the special throw 214A+G rings out to Yoshi’s back and is harder to break
+ the special throw B+G4_6 guarantees K or A close to a wall and gives advantage
+ the special throw B+G4_6 is unbreakable.* Close to a wall, AA & advantage is guaranteed even if the opponent chooses correctly.* (*ed.—Furzy is referring to which way the life drain works, which is sort of a “break” IMHO).
– being high, throws can be ducked, TC’d, etc.

4. 2a:B = iMCF = the low fist (ed.—I was tempted to translate this as “below the belt,” haha)
+ TC
+ fast (i10), can be used to interrupt
+ nice combo on CH, can lead to a RO (if RCC is mastered)
+ completely safe
• BE version (6B BE) is longer range but slower (i13)
– steppable
– bad range

5. 6K = the basic punisher / whiff punisher
+ good damage (48), even better on CH (57)
+ fast (i15) for the damage
+ completely anti-step
+ monstrous wall combos to Yoshi’s left
+ easy to whiff punish after step
+ can RO
+ the follow-up (6KK) can surprise those who are too slow to punish. The follow-up K can clean hit & leads to violent tech traps
– punishable up to i20. If you use the follow-up, it’s punishable up to i17 (i18 punishers clash with the follow-up K, generally to Yoshi’s advantage)
– high, the opponent can duck, use a TC move, etc.

6. 4A (AAAA) = the anti-step & advantage
+ safe (-9) regardless of the number of A hits* (*except the last, obviously)
+ fast (i15)
+ gives +2 to Yoshi on hit regardless of the number of A hits*
+ 4AAA is guaranteed on NH
+ correct range
+ varying the number of A hits keeps the opponent from regaining priority
+ every hit guaranteed on CH. The JF version knocks down and has random (risky) recovery.
– high, the opponent can duck, use a TC move, etc.

7. FC1K (KKKK) = The low anti-step
+ fast-hitting (i17, faster than FC3K), impossible to block on reaction (if iFC is mastered)
+ opens up guard (low)
+ completely anti-step
+ TC
+ FC1KKK is guaranteed on NH
+ good damage on CH
+ can surprise opponents expecting FC3K instead
+ all the hits are guaranteed on CH. The JF version knocks down, and unlike the other JF spins the recovery isn’t random (ed.—huh, I didn’t know that!)
– disadvantage on hit (-12)
– very punishable on block (-22), one must remember how many Ks they’ve input.

8. 214A and 8~214A= THE evasive hit
+ completely anti-step
+ combos with DNK or 66A+B
+ TC in i2 (!), probably one of the fastest TCs in the game
+ can lead to a RO with DNK
+ Yoshi takes a slight step left. Doing 8~214A roughly doubles the step, very strong.
– punishable at -17
– visible, use solely for evasion

9. 7_8_9K = the jumping kick
+ mid, fairly fast
+ wall and RO
+ TJ (therefore anti-throw and anti-low)
+ completely anti-step (? Correct me if I’m wrong? This wasn’t the case in SC4)
– punishable (but not by much, -12)

10. 11_44_77A = the safe anti-step mid
+ mid
+ completely anti-step
+ safe!
+ knocks down on NH
+ RO to Yoshi’s right
+ wallsplat possible but you’ve got to be really glued to the wall (ed.—bah, terrible translation)
+ DNK is a tech trap to both sides depending on the distance
+ 8A+B~G seems to be a tech trap also (not 100% sure)
+ usable on backstep/whiff punish
– meh range (ed.—now I know how to say “meh” in french, lol)
Ed.—posting this now so I don’t lose all my work. This took slightly longer than expected. I’ll finish later.
Bonus: the moves that just missed the top ten list.
CE = 236236A+B+K: + big damage, passe en combo, completely anti-step / – pas assez rapide pour être correctement piffé (quoique sur une prédiction de step)
66A+B: + bonne portée, bon dégats, whiff punish, tech traps / – complètement steppable, lent
33B,B+K: + excellent whiff punish, dégats corrects, TC, confirmable, CH 33B peut mener à un RO / – le follow-up B+K est punissable à -16. Si Yoshi enchaine avec la suite (A+B,K), l'adversaire doit utiliser un TC.
4KB: + mid, combo, bonne distance et dégats, safe / – facilement steppable
66A+K: + imparable très rapide, gros dégats / – Yoshi perd 50% de sa barre, steppable et backdashable
8A: + mid, bons dégats, TC, anti-step, passage en SDGF / – un peu lent, portée moyenne
FL 4_5_6A+B: + TJ, pas forcément évident à interrompre lorsqu'on connait pas, bons dégats en hit, propriétés évasives, casse la guarde adverse, fait monter sa jauge / – pas de garde, pas ultra rapide, risqué contre certains personnages (Astaroth)
22_88K: + whiff punish, bon dégats avec combo, RO, blockstun, anti-step d'un coté / – lent, high
22_88B: + whiff punish, bon dégats avec combo, RO, bon pushback donc plus dur à punir / – a tendance à whiffer de près (un peu comme 22B d'asta)
Backdash~bG: + backdash vraiment violent, permet des whiffs punish / – pas un coup à proprement parler (0 dégats)
4B+K: + auto-step rapide sur la gauche de Yoshi, sauve parfois de certains RO et crée des situations funky / – Yoshi perd de la vie (10 je crois)
6B: + mid i13 (!), +6 en hit (!) / – portée ridicule, complètement steppable
aB+K: + rapide (i13), anti-step sur la gauche de Yoshi, combo en CH / – peu de portée, high
MED B: + casse la garde en 6 (!), +8 en block, propriété évasive (teleport) / – steppable, relativement lent, se fait backdash facilement
AA: + rapide, bonne portée / – high
BB: + mid, bonne portée, dégats corrects, le 2e B touche souvent dans les coups auto-backdash / – steppable
A+K: + super rapide (i8), auto-GI les horizontaux, utilisable dans les strings, permet d'utiliser les Tekken moves, touche l'adversaire lorsque sa hitbox avance / – portée ultra courte, dégats ridicules, méchamment punissable si whiffé
 
Who cares what Yoshi has lost, you know what he has now, still a very solid char. I've honestly contemplated dropping Yoshi around 1923081209310 times now, even after I won a tourney with him, and a top 16 finish at winter brawl. but I still play him, and he is still solid.

Now with the patches, I feel like Yoshi becomes better because of how hard the nerf bat hit some chars.
 
lolo said:
I understand how you feel DrDogg, that's how I felt at the begining, and Furzy felt that way too for some time too, until you find an effective game for you, you will feel like that, Yoshi is not the same as SC4, and I miss a lot Tekken moves, the fun/surprise factor is not as good as in 4.

But that doesn't mean that Yoshi is not better than in 4, he is prolly as strong or stronger than in 4, the problem is that there are lots of strong chars in this game, but how many of them can have so many UB! setups that can make cry the strongest player in the world, his lows are among the best, 3B being -14 instead -17 like in 4 is great, plus, we have another launcher if you wanna go safe, 3B+K is -4 on block, Yoshi can punish better than in 4 thanks to BB being !14.

Yoshi is still fun, I still go crazy with stances, but gotta be creative and risk from time to time, overall I find easier to win with this Yoshi, and no way he is mid tier, he is top and more now that he was untouched in the patch, and some other like leixia and natsu are nerfed, even night received a small nerfing.

And I love his BE, every one of them has it's purpose, I thought they were trash too, but now I spam them.
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I have stated I'm not giving up on Yoshi, and I'm constantly in the lab trying to patch his holes with new strats. I actually have a frame trap for 3B+K, but it's rare to see it work on a top player.

I'm really curious to see how you're using his BE attacks. Some insight there would be great. I'm also not seeing how you're looking at Yoshi as top tier (pre-patch). I never felt Natsu was top tier, but I think she's better than Yoshi (again... pre-patch). I would also put Leixia and a few others above Yoshi (pre-patch), landing him at mid-tier.
 
DrDogg said:
I have stated I'm not giving up on Yoshi, and I'm constantly in the lab trying to patch his holes with new strats. I actually have a frame trap for 3B+K, but it's rare to see it work on a top player.

I'm really curious to see how you're using his BE attacks. Some insight there would be great. I'm also not seeing how you're looking at Yoshi as top tier (pre-patch). I never felt Natsu was top tier, but I think she's better than Yoshi (again... pre-patch). I would also put Leixia and a few others above Yoshi (pre-patch), landing him at mid-tier.
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For BEs, well, is actually quite natural, 66A BE is a good anti step, that is, and it works for combos too.
3AB BE, is my favourite, is 100% hit confirmable poke with good damage, you can just hit 3A and hit confirm, and then just press A+B+K, no need to press B when delayed. Mix this with 6B, iMCF and Yoshi gained a great poke game there.
And 6B BE... Basically I use 6B BE in combos instead iMCF when I have some bar to spare.
 
Still not a fan of his BEs. 3AB (BE) is the only one I've found useful outside of combos since 66A (BE) is unsafe.
 
Is iMcf rly that good?
i mean is it something as a yoshi player rly need to udulize? i mean besides DNK and a:B+K what elses?
i DNK all days(with 8A+B and 214A) am i rly using yoshi right
i feel like doing the same thing :/( DGF b ->DNK and SDGF b rinse and repeat)
 
I can at least see where you guys are coming from. Honestly Ill give him a more solid look. I feel like Yoshi deserves at least that for our old SC4 times and countless hours.

On another note you guys think B~G back dash will get a proportional buff considering regular back-dash got nerfed?
 
sunjino said:
Is iMcf rly that good?
i mean is it something as a yoshi player rly need to udulize? i mean besides DNK and a:B+K what elses?
i DNK all days(with 8A+B and 214A) am i rly using yoshi right
i feel like doing the same thing :/( DGF b ->DNK and SDGF b rinse and repeat)
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iMCF is essential. Without it you have nothing to make people fear getting up in your shit.
 
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