DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
A on one button, A+G mapped on the other. tap tap, easy peasy.
it ain't JF but at least you're doing it.
easy to buffer, too.
Nightmare General Discussion/Q&A
- Thread starter Tiamat
- Start date
it ain't JF but at least you're doing it.
easy to buffer, too.
DeathInMyEyes
DIME
Its because of the QS4G fix. G is blocked out during step for some frames, so buffering aga during step causes g to cancel in the late part of a. To fix this, just input aga after recovering from step or do agaaaa during step.
sillycatsteven
[09] Warrior
It might be because you are not releasing the G. otherwise you wouldn't stand there blocking awkwardly, you would do an attack cancel then just stand there without blocking....
Slade
[14] Master
Some mids can be TCed under. I fought an incredibly annoying size 1 Devil Jin CaS the other day whose crouch dash went under Algol's 22A.
AwFuL_OwEn
[08] Mercenary
What is CE? Critical Edge?
I am just starting out using Nightmare and really like him but am not that good with him... What are some solid moves that I need to incorporate in my game. I seem to struggle against some of the quicker characters in the game. Any help would be appreciated.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
yes CE is critical edge. moved your posts into this topic. take a look at the nightmare guide that is stickied
Engared
[10] Knight
Yo, check this out:
Mix-up: Post GS A NH or GI;
1. 4K A+B+K or
2. 2B+K A+B+K
Both flash yellow, both requires the use of Nightmare's fist so have similar start-up animations, both relatively safe, both 70+ damage if they hit. You can 4A+B cancel fake here as well. I think you can get 22K, 44B, 66B+K as well from this distance or walk up and throw. Can someone test this on humans to see if they can read this mix-up?
From CH GS A; 6 ( B) NSS K; I think 2B+K BE is a must block.
Post 2B+K BE into 2B+K BE is a very good option as well. If you think they are going to flinch, burn meter with 4K A+B+K, 3B, 44B, flap-jack or throw. If they don't flinch and sit there like rocks, wreck their gauge with 2B+K BE spam. It breaks in 7. Can someone do research on what follow-ups are best if 2B+K BE hits at close range or if the quake hits them on the ground? It crumples them for 27 damage but what follow-ups does Nightmare have?
I'm looking for ways for Nightmare to burn meter. I find that I'm not using enough meter (which is a good thing as I'm still winning). But Nightmare actually has a lot of relatively safe moves if he uses his meter.
Also on block, 4K A+B+K into 4K A+B+K is a real frame trap. They have to interrupt it.
Mix-up: Post GS A NH or GI;
1. 4K A+B+K or
2. 2B+K A+B+K
Both flash yellow, both requires the use of Nightmare's fist so have similar start-up animations, both relatively safe, both 70+ damage if they hit. You can 4A+B cancel fake here as well. I think you can get 22K, 44B, 66B+K as well from this distance or walk up and throw. Can someone test this on humans to see if they can read this mix-up?
From CH GS A; 6 ( B) NSS K; I think 2B+K BE is a must block.
Post 2B+K BE into 2B+K BE is a very good option as well. If you think they are going to flinch, burn meter with 4K A+B+K, 3B, 44B, flap-jack or throw. If they don't flinch and sit there like rocks, wreck their gauge with 2B+K BE spam. It breaks in 7. Can someone do research on what follow-ups are best if 2B+K BE hits at close range or if the quake hits them on the ground? It crumples them for 27 damage but what follow-ups does Nightmare have?
I'm looking for ways for Nightmare to burn meter. I find that I'm not using enough meter (which is a good thing as I'm still winning). But Nightmare actually has a lot of relatively safe moves if he uses his meter.
Also on block, 4K A+B+K into 4K A+B+K is a real frame trap. They have to interrupt it.
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
I did some testing using the record function from training mode, and setting it to randomly replay the two mixups. I was able to block it pretty consistently. The 40 frame startup for 2B+K really hurts this mixup from being super effective.
I think going for a throw or 4K BE mixup will workout better due to those moves being at similar speeds. I'll do some more testing with local players when I get a chance after exams.
Engared
[10] Knight
- don't dig throwing as much as I used to. Walking up and throwing loses the advantage the on hit gives. Does flapjack reach from this distance?
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
Did a small test just now.
Flapjack will reach the opponent if their holding guard, it'll whiff if they don't. I need to test how well stepping can deal with 4K BE, FC 3B, and WR B.
Flapjack will reach the opponent if their holding guard, it'll whiff if they don't. I need to test how well stepping can deal with 4K BE, FC 3B, and WR B.
SilentWall
[10] Knight
Engared & Schneider-X, I think it is difficult to found a true mix-up in this distance.
However, I do 3AA & agA for anti-step and interupt and do single B for safety.
I will do GS for second level of mix-ups.
Does single A & 4K reach to opponent? I forgot.
4K sounds good. I will give it a try.
However, I do 3AA & agA for anti-step and interupt and do single B for safety.
I will do GS for second level of mix-ups.
Does single A & 4K reach to opponent? I forgot.
4K sounds good. I will give it a try.
Engared
[10] Knight
I might've gotten something here. Needs more testing but I think I have 2 50/50s. (Tested on Pyrrha and Asta with recorded command).
NH 66B 66K6 (65 damage) into GS B or Throw mix-up. They will stand up into the throw. They can also stand up and block the GS B but if they roll in any direction (i think I tested it) they will be hit by GS B. Asta cannot escape by air controlling. Pyrrha can escape in one direction but has to start air controlling immediately (will not say what that is here) or GS B will hit. However, should your opponent actually start escaping the mix-up there are another couple of shennanigans to hit him with:
NH 66B 66K (65 damage) 2B+K BE which will hit pyrrha on the ground (I think this is a must block from here). BT A+B will also hit your opponent on the ground. This can be done normally as well in place of GS B if you anticipate a side roll.
More testing should be done but I think can be a suitable replacement for our usual post 66B mix-ups.
Another one I think I have found is post 33B GS B (Not sure if the JF version i.e. the 8 extra damage one or the normal one make a difference). (Tested on Pyrrha)
If you hold G and do GS K BE, it will catch all rollers if you do it quick enough. Holding G and throwing will catch them if they stand (you must delay for a second against small bodies to prevent a whiff). This is range dependent however (curse NM's piddly arm in this version, SC4's arm would reach on almost all ranges).
GS B also catchs them if they roll to the left and backwards. 66B catchs them if they roll to the right.
NH 66B 66K6 (65 damage) into GS B or Throw mix-up. They will stand up into the throw. They can also stand up and block the GS B but if they roll in any direction (i think I tested it) they will be hit by GS B. Asta cannot escape by air controlling. Pyrrha can escape in one direction but has to start air controlling immediately (will not say what that is here) or GS B will hit. However, should your opponent actually start escaping the mix-up there are another couple of shennanigans to hit him with:
NH 66B 66K (65 damage) 2B+K BE which will hit pyrrha on the ground (I think this is a must block from here). BT A+B will also hit your opponent on the ground. This can be done normally as well in place of GS B if you anticipate a side roll.
More testing should be done but I think can be a suitable replacement for our usual post 66B mix-ups.
Another one I think I have found is post 33B GS B (Not sure if the JF version i.e. the 8 extra damage one or the normal one make a difference). (Tested on Pyrrha)
If you hold G and do GS K BE, it will catch all rollers if you do it quick enough. Holding G and throwing will catch them if they stand (you must delay for a second against small bodies to prevent a whiff). This is range dependent however (curse NM's piddly arm in this version, SC4's arm would reach on almost all ranges).
GS B also catchs them if they roll to the left and backwards. 66B catchs them if they roll to the right.
Engared
[10] Knight
I've got more (not sure if DIME or someone found this already), tested on Pyrrha:
44B NH 2A+B will hit grounded and right roll.
44B NH GS K BE will hit backroll and left roll. That's a legit 50/50 there.
Nightmare is only about +6 on wake-up from WS B NSS b:A. Be careful when attacking post move. 66B seems to get rollers right and back and GS B gets the rest. You can stand up and block however.
FC 3B (AT) into 66B seems to be a must-block, except to one side (CURSES!). GS B covers that side. 2K also seems to cover all rollers but doesn't catch back tech and block.
44B NH 2A+B will hit grounded and right roll.
44B NH GS K BE will hit backroll and left roll. That's a legit 50/50 there.
Nightmare is only about +6 on wake-up from WS B NSS b:A. Be careful when attacking post move. 66B seems to get rollers right and back and GS B gets the rest. You can stand up and block however.
FC 3B (AT) into 66B seems to be a must-block, except to one side (CURSES!). GS B covers that side. 2K also seems to cover all rollers but doesn't catch back tech and block.
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
I did a little more testing today. After a NH GS A, if the opponent does a backstep to realign themselves and then G right away, their out of range of flapjack. However if you do a step grab or step flapjack in anticipation of their step, they have a short window the react to whichever one you did. Though i think its still possible to react to one or the other.
Silent, I wish the move didn't have all of that pushback. It was so much better in the previous versions :(
Do you mean as a techtrap? If so, I think FC 3B would work better to catch left techs, doesn't cost meter and does more damage. Also the opponent can block GS K BE if they just guard :(
Silent, I wish the move didn't have all of that pushback. It was so much better in the previous versions :(
Do you mean as a techtrap? If so, I think FC 3B would work better to catch left techs, doesn't cost meter and does more damage. Also the opponent can block GS K BE if they just guard :(
Engared
[10] Knight
Yeah its a tech trap. Didn't think about FC 3B. That's better.
4K BE will kill their backstep if not mistaken after NH GS A.
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
The turning around backstep animation doesn't have the same vulnerability as a normal backstep, so their safe from 4K BE unless the NM player takes a step forward as well. Atleast that's from my findings.
Engared
[10] Knight
Lame.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
you might wanna just do GS B instead of trying for a mixup. get some gauge damage at least
microgamer
[10] Knight
I'm prolly late to the party, but I gave up SCV for Lent and I came back and people using Nightmare have won two major tournaments already; Whereas, SCIV, this was not the case. Thoughts?
From what I've seen, Nightmare has a better reward for the risks he takes; his damage is as high as ever. That and the pushback on his attacks and his movement speed make his ranged game quite good. Moves like 22B and 22AA rarely get punished yet.
The way the metagame of SCV is, you need to stick your neck out there to make process, and if your play is too risky against Nightmare, you eat a nice chunk of damage. Players like Omega and Keev are by now accustomed to getting punished for risks, so they're having great success.
From what I've seen, Nightmare has a better reward for the risks he takes; his damage is as high as ever. That and the pushback on his attacks and his movement speed make his ranged game quite good. Moves like 22B and 22AA rarely get punished yet.
The way the metagame of SCV is, you need to stick your neck out there to make process, and if your play is too risky against Nightmare, you eat a nice chunk of damage. Players like Omega and Keev are by now accustomed to getting punished for risks, so they're having great success.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
In one word, damage. He does the damage to justify his unsafety now, unlike in SC4 where his damage was too low. His wall damage is literally doubled in this game. GS K BE is crazy mad good and much better than GS KK ever was. Meter cost is virtually a non issue. It RO from very far, gives a high wallsplat, and the knockdown from it is quite strong even if no RO/wall happened. Backstep buff, Strong guard gauge damage (GS B being safe is killer), and faster 3B all help him immensely as well. Thats really about it IMO
The thing is, a lot of people will say that NM's damage off say, 3B isn't that crazy compared to some other characters. this is true....but it does quite a good amount still, and if you get a RO/wall with it (which is very very common) you are either going to win the round or take 70% of their life away in one go.