Nightmare General Discussion/Q&A

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Welcome to the Nightmare Q&A/General Discussion thread. This thread is for gameplay related Q&A and discussion and will be the only stickied topic open to replies. To discuss story matters please go here

Ask/Discuss away!
 

kyrt

whatever
Question 1: Out of curiosity when new people first start off wit Nightmare what is the most common mistake that they make and how can it be fixed?
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Question 1: Out of curiosity when new people first start off wit Nightmare what is the most common mistake that they make and how can it be fixed?
IMO the most common mistake is overuse of GS and NSS, followed by careless throw abuse. Just because he has stances doesn't mean you should base your gameplan around them. Learn to use a set of basic moves and then build upon that with less essential things like the stances and situational moves. Though I say "less" essential because it is essential that you have an understanding of his stances.

The 2nd most common mistake is careless throw abuse. Because Nightmare generally lacks fast, strong mids and lows it is easy to get fixated on his throws since throws are relatively quick and high damage, not to mention Nightmare's large grab range. You must learn how to use your mids properly or you will have trouble with flinch duckers and spammy quick attacks/TC attacks.

Disclaimer: Some of this advice may be less valid in SCV but so far Nightmare doesn't appear to be drastically changed, so the problems are likely the same (might even be worse in some cases). At this time I am more concerned about the 2nd problem, because 11K has not been confirmed, new WS K looks much worse, and we haven't seen any new, reasonably fast safe mid.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
Question 1: Out of curiosity when new people first start off wit Nightmare what is the most common mistake that they make and how can it be fixed?
The main problem i find with newer Nightmare players is the curse of the stationary-mare and 2D-mare. Nightmare's biggest strength is his awesome movement ability and complimentary moveset to take advantage of his spacing game. Many Nightmare players play him like he is a 2D Fighter and fail to take advantage of his superb closing distance and throws. Standing still is a big no-no as Nightmare.

Nightmare is an advanced character requiring understanding of fakes, mix-ups and mindgames. Nightmare lacks a solid reliable knockdown low and many of his mind-games/setups are reactable in the heat of battle. As such you have to disguise your throw attempts and not be afraid to take risks. Common mistake example: its your turn to attack, you have blocked your opponent's attack and he is now blocking, ready to react to your move. Normally, basic mix-up at this point is the throw mid (for simplicity's sake, 33B/throw mixup).

Most players immediately conduct their mix-up at this point but your opponent is ready so he reads your mix-up and reacts correctly. However, try disguising your attempt with a step forward or to the side (etc...) before conducting your mix-up. This slight delay throws off your opponent's defensive rhythm and should allow you to successfully land your mix-up. There are more complicated versions of this mix-up which you should be able to find on the SC4 forums.

If you need more help, I'll do a whole write up on the subject.

IMO the most common mistake is overuse of GS and NSS, followed by careless throw abuse. Just because he has stances doesn't mean you should base your gameplan around them. Learn to use a set of basic moves and then build upon that with less essential things like the stances and situational moves. Though I say "less" essential because it is essential that you have an understanding of his stances.

The 2nd most common mistake is careless throw abuse. Because Nightmare generally lacks fast, strong mids and lows it is easy to get fixated on his throws since throws are relatively quick and high damage, not to mention Nightmare's large grab range. You must learn how to use your mids properly or you will have trouble with flinch duckers and spammy quick attacks/TC attacks.

Disclaimer: Some of this advice may be less valid in SCV but so far Nightmare doesn't appear to be drastically changed, so the problems are likely the same (might even be worse in some cases). At this time I am more concerned about the 2nd problem, because 11K has not been confirmed, new WS K looks much worse, and we haven't seen any new, reasonably fast safe mid.
Nightmare has better mids (the new 44A, the old WS AA, 3AA etc)now and is safer. I think it won't be as big of a problem as we think it is. The new WS K looks the same imo, its just its chronic lack of tracking now hurts much more with the improved step. It would be interesting if 11K now has a new animation. I hope there's a new one hah.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Nightmare has better mids (the new 44A, the old WS AA, 3AA etc)now and is safer. I think it won't be as big of a problem as we think it is. The new WS K looks the same imo, its just its chronic lack of tracking now hurts much more with the improved step. It would be interesting if 11K now has a new animation. I hope there's a new one hah.
new 44A, old WS AA, and 3AA are all too slow for the role I'm talking about. I'm talking about mids that can act as a quick, safe mid for mixup and interrupt. Also, what makes you think he's safer? Do you have any info about how new 44A tracks, how bad it is on block, or how much damage/what effects it has on hit? The new WS K does not look nearly as good on hit or block as the old WS K to me so we're just gonna have to disagree on that until we get more hard data on it.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
new 44A, old WS AA, and 3AA are all too slow for the role I'm talking about. I'm talking about mids that can act as a quick, safe mid for mixup and interrupt. Also, what makes you think he's safer? Do you have any info about how new 44A tracks, how bad it is on block, or how much damage/what effects it has on hit? The new WS K does not look nearly as good on hit or block as the old WS K to me so we're just gonna have to disagree on that until we get more hard data on it.
Fair enough.
 

MysticBoudha

[10] Knight
OH well i just introduced myself in the new players forum even tough ive been here since the end of august 2008 ;) But i also wanted to introduce myself here since i plan on playing Nightmare again. Before i left SC for some shitty game called Option Select Fighter IV ( sorry if i offended anyone) i was playing Yoshi, Nighty and Amy mostly but Nighty and Yoshi have always been my 2 favorites. Now since i intend to become the best SC V player in the universe i must choose 1 which looks to be Nightmare so i wanted to also introduce myself to all the NIghtmare players here.

PLeased to meet you all. Really looking foward to sharing stuff when SC V comes out. Till it comes out im gonna train in UMVC3 since theres a big tournament on january 14th in my area. See you soon guys.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
OH well i just introduced myself in the new players forum even tough ive been here since the end of august 2008 ;) But i also wanted to introduce myself here since i plan on playing Nightmare again. Before i left SC for some shitty game called Option Select Fighter IV ( sorry if i offended anyone) i was playing Yoshi, Nighty and Amy mostly but Nighty and Yoshi have always been my 2 favorites. Now since i intend to become the best SC V player in the universe i must choose 1 which looks to be Nightmare so i wanted to also introduce myself to all the NIghtmare players here.

PLeased to meet you all. Really looking foward to sharing stuff when SC V comes out. Till it comes out im gonna train in UMVC3 since theres a big tournament on january 14th in my area. See you soon guys.
Good to have you with us Boudha.
 

MysticBoudha

[10] Knight
Thanks Tiamat. BTW im really looking foward to playing you since i know you are a really solid player. :D Just have to shake off that SSF IV rust of my SC skills which were dormant for far too long :D I hope to provide all of you some good challenge so we can all elevate our level of play further. :D Man im hyped for SC V.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Engared

[10] Knight
Thanks Tiamat. BTW im really looking foward to playing you since i know you are a really solid player. :D Just have to shake off that SSF IV rust of my SC skills which were dormant for far too long :D I hope to provide all of you some good challenge so we can all elevate our level of play further. :D Man im hyped for SC V.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get frustrated if Nightmare turns out to be terrible. Nature of supporting the Azure Knight lol.
 

MysticBoudha

[10] Knight
Hehe i play Gen in SSF IV, hakan being my alt -_- , Captain America on point in MVC3 Vanilla, Chipp in Guilty Gear, Yoshi in tekken 6 br so i think im pretty used to playing low tier characters. :D Even if Nightmare would be the worst character in SC V i would still play him. Im no tier whore.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
Hehe i play Gen in SSF IV, hakan being my alt -_- , Captain America on point in MVC3 Vanilla, Chipp in Guilty Gear, Yoshi in tekken 6 br so i think im pretty used to playing low tier characters. :D Even if Nightmare would be the worst character in SC V i would still play him. Im no tier whore.
Most likely he'll end up mid again. His damage is too high and he still has the tools. The key thing now is whether he gains enough to advance to the B and A tier (which is what we all hope for).
 

MysticBoudha

[10] Knight
Most likely he'll end up mid again. His damage is too high and he still has the tools. The key thing now is whether he gains enough to advance to the B and A tier (which is what we all hope for).
Agreed. Well ive been playing others games than SC for 2 years now but he does feel a bit faster. I know the game is faster but even so i do think he seems faster. Anyways lets just hope he does well in this game too. As long as hes tournament playable im gonna play him. Im just not totally sure as to who will be my main between him, Yoshi, Patrocklos and Viola who reminds me of Amy in a way. :D Lets all hope for the best !!!!
 

ioKain

[09] Warrior
GS does look a little quicker. Hopefully it's not the overall speed of the game. Uh, I'm dyin for some new info....Engared how much longer till you get your hands on the demo?