Raph confirmed as SCV Nightmare :D

Forgon said:
One is the fact many of ZWEI and Viola's lines (to my knowledge) don't change. Obviously many such as grunts or signature lines do not change for characters but often times you see many lines change for related characters who have a specific attitude toward them (especially during a CE, BE, taunt, grab).However, Viola acts like Amy being cold, direct, and callous toward her opponent and ZWEI is actively hostile and is focused on defeating him (no "Why?" or "How could you!" when grabbed or using their CE at any point to my knowledge; it would be interesting if someone would provide lines for me to study).
Click to expand...

Amy / Viola has a line where she does her back turned B+K attack. I think she even says it in her 66AAB attack. As she flips backwards she says "Stop this."

It's not much, but she doesnt say it to anyone else. She clearly doesnt want to be fighting. Especially when paired with her lines of a heartfelt "ZWEI, wake up". It seems she could be doing anything, either leaving ZWEI to go back with Raph, or simply fending off a confrontation by ZWEI who feels like he needs to fight her. Either way she doesnt want to hurt him.

And i agree, the soul series has always look like ideal CGI movie / anime material. Now more than ever with its incredibly rich back story and cast of unique characters. They may be a bit cliche, but they embody these traits and characteristics better than any game i've seen while still adding in other bits of charm or personality. Games like Street Fighter take hardcore Stereotypes and never if not rarely and slightly alter their appearance / personality.

Edit: It's actually "Stop that" during her 66AAB. I guess the point is she's still saying stop.
 
Forgon said:
Either way, I feel Raphael is going to have the short end of the stick for this on. He is either going to get back Amy and have to deal with ZWEI (who could be hunting him and her or just want to take Viola back) or he is going to lose Amy forever, the one person that gives his life meaning. How tragic.

--Forgon
Click to expand...


Whichever theory holds true for the Raphael, Nightmare, Z.W.E.I and Viola relationship; I had a feeling that I had to agree with you on that note since I'm also thinking the same thing. It kinda sucks being Raphael even though he's a vampire (who am I kidding! Most vampires DO have tragic stories associated with them, don't they?).... =/

EDIT : Major fail for me for not reading the rest of the posts before replying.... My bad! >.<
 
Another interesting little detail about Viola, Raphael, and ZWEI is that they all have poses / animations where they put their hand on their forehead or in front of their face.

Not exactly astonishing or story changing but i like how they share this quality. Like they all have a love for being flashy and dramatic.
 
taffertier said:
Another interesting little detail about Viola, Raphael, and ZWEI is that they all have poses / animations where they put their hand on their forehead or in front of their face.

Not exactly astonishing or story changing but i like how they share this quality. Like they all have a love for being flashy and dramatic.
Click to expand...

When you have a character who, in the middle of the fight, for no reason, random Clean Hits and screams, "AAAAMMMYYYY!!!!" at the top of his lungs when fighting anybody, you know this is Soul Calibur.

My friend shares Raphael's overdramatic gestures and cocky personality (emphasis on the cock-y issue). Probably why he plays him so well.

--Forgon
 
ShaolinTiger86 said:
That or he probably believes that he is Raphael.
Click to expand...

Considering he acted like that long before he touched Soul Calibur (he is a convert from Tekken and his precious Li) and that Raphael only intensified this, I say it is a mixture of yes and no.

--Forgon
 
xragnarok645x said:
I just wish that Bamco didn't make a half-assed story mode, then the tension from all our speculations would be relieved.. <_<
Click to expand...

Recent translations from the artbook confirm that Raphael is Nightmare, no question about it. Based on the translation, it is flat out stated as well as numerous other factors I never considered (such as the fact Viola believes her orb is the secret to her memories when in fact it is the very thing sapping them away).

--Forgon
 
Forgon said:
Recent translations from the artbook confirm that Raphael is Nightmare, no question about it. Based on the translation, it is flat out stated as well as numerous other factors I never considered (such as the fact Viola believes her orb is the secret to her memories when in fact it is the very thing sapping them away).

--Forgon
Click to expand...
Well, there you have it. Raphael Sorel is the NEW Nightmare. Now, Soul Edge will be a rapier instead of a zweihander that Siegfried wielded. Any chances of Pyrrha being Nightmare may have just went out the door or unless Omega Pyrrha becomes a whole different Nightmare/villain.
 
ShaolinTiger86 said:
Well, there you have it. Raphael Sorel is the NEW Nightmare. Now, Soul Edge will be a rapier instead of a zweihander that Siegfried wielded. Any chances of Pyrrha being Nightmare may have just went out the door or unless Omega Pyrrha becomes a whole different Nightmare/villain.
Click to expand...

Here is the translations as posted by our illustrious and humble Tuzark:

Raphael
+ Very little I can add about him. The charts have him only linked to Amy and a few real-life figures (he was a supporter of Henry IV, for example).
+ About Nightmare's host: Soul Edge controls the host by having imprinted his own memories into him. He has forged a new personality and past out of the selected memories of the sword, which appears to account for him using Nightmare/Siegfried's old style. Not sure if it means it was a blank state beforehand, but I tend to agree with that idea.
+ The text also implies that what Dumas really really desires is to devote his soul entirely to the sword regardless of his well-being, and mentions he overwhelms his body beyond its own limits while using the sword's power.

Based on this (and assuming I interpreted all of this correctly):

1) Soul Edge will continue being the Zweihander because Inferno is using its own memories when possessing a host and therefore I am assuming Inferno simply prefers and/or is most talented with a zweihander so that will be his weapon for now on.

2) Nightmare's personality and actions (at least in detail) will vary greatly based on the host while still retaining the general personality that is associated with Inferno and its memories implanted in the body, making Raphael's actions as Nightmare probably just a perverted, twisted perception of his own (as well as his thought process and pool of options, ie politics over warfare when available) as Inferno uses the host to achieve its objective.

3) A host of Soul Edge will be used solely for the sword and any original desires or wishes the host has while wielding the sword will be drowned by the will of Soul Edge so it may use the host for its own purposes. Therefore, it is highly unlikely anything Nightmare is doing is what Raphael would want but rather what Soul Edge would want (theories pertaining to the idea that Soul Edge is keeping the host subservient by making said host believe their actions and choices are their own, ie puppet manipulation on the pychological level, are still valid).

The 2nd piece of knowledge we learn is extremely important. The implications (which make sense considering the sword's history) imply that Soul Edge (ie Inferno, the soul of the sword) will continually grow in knowledge and intelligence as it continues to jump from host to host, making it extremely dangerous.

Probably the most important leap we have noticed in Nightmare, his personality and rationale, are because a calculated, political character (Raphael) has perhaps infinite memories of manipulating events and playing politics to help him and his family maintain their status and social class. These memories are now transpired between Soul Edge; the sword now has the memories of Raphael in its arsenal of knowledge.

This means Inferno is no longer restricted by its previous knowledge. A situation involving a character that is extremely powerful and a strategic asset would be limited if Nightmare was still SC-SCIV Nightmare with Siegfried and Cervantes being the only notable hosts. No insult to the character's intelligence, but they clearly were never in an environment that gave them the experience for more complex, sinister schemes (both were essentially bandits, thieves, and/or cutthroats when Soul Edge possessed them as far as their experiences go).

Nightmare's options before: Kill character, devour soul, leave for dead

These options are what would be likely based on what our previous Nightmare has done (the only notable independent action of Nightmare was form a small group which still acted more as an alliance of warriors for a purpose rather than a complex organization).

Nightmare's options now: Kill character, devour soul, leave for dead, torture, manipulate to portray yourself as good guy, manipulate to break the will of the character with your awe-inspiring power, hold as prisoner for a bargaining chip, possess as new host due to their potential, corrupt to your side so that they may be your spy, use as a symbol for intimidation, use in order to lure out an actual threat or rival you desire, give to allies/potential allies in order to improve relations, turn her into a malfested doll to serve your will, etc.

The options are far more laid out and obviously are all things that involve the cunning and manipulation that a character (like Raphael) would have in order to come up with an see these scenarios. Our new Nightmare shows this level of intelligence and if a character like Ivy (who is both smart, has studied heavily on the sword, and knows advanced magic and alchemy) becomes a new host, that only makes Soul Edge even more dangerous as these memories would only strengthen it.

At some point, I would imagine Soul Edge could reach the point where it will be intelligent enough to begin body hopping in order to quickly gain knowledge (or intel from enemies who won't talk) and then return to whatever preferred host body it desires (servants could imprison the host until Nightmare leaps back into it in case it becomes active/alive and tries to escape). Soul Edge has become far more insidious and potentially dangerous, indeed.

--Forgon
 
I find it amusing that after thousands and thousands of years, Soul Edge finally found one intelligent guy to use as a host. I guess Inferno didn't like the souls of nerds in the past...
On a more serious tone, I do wonder about this one quote though. "Soul Edge. Grant your master his wish." This is rather strange since Inferno and Soul Edge is basically the same thing; the same applies to Elysium and Soul Calibur. But maybe Inferno refers to himself in third person or something. The book can't lie I guess. ( So sad that it's only in jap. Such a pity...)
 
Forgon said:
snip
Click to expand...

Much more thought than I've ever put into it. XD I like your ideas and wonder just how much of it Project Soul intended. I really liked their ideas behind Soul Calibur V, but unfortunately not many of them made it into the game. :\

Hopefully SC VI will be more enlightening to each character's story.
 
Forgon said:
Recent translations from the artbook confirm that Raphael is Nightmare, no question about it. Based on the translation, it is flat out stated as well as numerous other factors I never considered (such as the fact Viola believes her orb is the secret to her memories when in fact it is the very thing sapping them away).

--Forgon
Click to expand...

This just leads to more questions. Like where did the orb come from? Why is it stealing her memories? If this is part of someone's plan what use are her memories to them?

darkwings13 said:
On a more serious tone, I do wonder about this one quote though. "Soul Edge. Grant your master his wish." This is rather strange since Inferno and Soul Edge is basically the same thing; the same applies to Elysium and Soul Calibur. But maybe Inferno refers to himself in third person or something. The book can't lie I guess. ( So sad that it's only in jap. Such a pity...)
Click to expand...

It could be that, like Forgon said, the sword is only making Raphael think he's doing what he wants.

Personally i think it's a mixture of both. Soul Edge isnt necessarily controlling Raphael entirely. According to the art book what Dumas wants is to devote himself wholly to the sword, and as we all know the more souls Soul Edge gains the stronger it gets. This could be part of Raphael's/Dumas' plan. He needs Soul Edge to become as strong as possible, all so that nothing can stop him from forging the world in his image (An image that suits Amy and himself). He even says this in several lines. When defeating Elysium Nightmare says "At last there are none left with the power to oppose us". Dumas / Inferno / Raphael / WHATEVER obviously dont want anyone interfering with their plans, whatever they may be. In Raphael's case it is very clear what he's planning. His desire to make Soul Edge an unstoppable weapon is what Raphael wants in order to make his dream a reality, it also just happens to coincide with Inferno's desire for souls.

When defeating ZWEI nightmare holds up his weapon and proudly exclaims "Behold Soul Edge, a weapon without equal!" I think this is Raphael speaking, it could also just be inferno's pride making him speak in the third person. Either way it's an objective that both hope to actually attain, maybe for different reasons, but it's a goal that both can work toward in harmony. It could be argued that neither care about their alter egos desires, but having taken on some of Raphael's memories and personality traits that is unlikey. Old Nightmare never cared about being soothed or relaxed by other people's suffering, as this one does. It only desires to work towards it's goal as smoothly and efficiently as possible. Raphael wants Soul Edge to become unbeatable for his perfect world, Inferno just wants more souls. It's win-win for both parties involved.
 
Z.W.E.I. is neither confirmed nor denied to be dead. For all we know E.I.N. has a healing factor that could immediately seal Z.W.E.I.'s impalement wound shut, then catch him as he fell and float down to the bottom of the cliff. Then they work their way back up about 6 hours after the ending.
 
Forgon said:
Here is the translations as posted by our illustrious and humble Tuzark:

Raphael
+ Very little I can add about him. The charts have him only linked to Amy and a few real-life figures (he was a supporter of Henry IV, for example).
+ About Nightmare's host: Soul Edge controls the host by having imprinted his own memories into him. He has forged a new personality and past out of the selected memories of the sword, which appears to account for him using Nightmare/Siegfried's old style. Not sure if it means it was a blank state beforehand, but I tend to agree with that idea.
+ The text also implies that what Dumas really really desires is to devote his soul entirely to the sword regardless of his well-being, and mentions he overwhelms his body beyond its own limits while using the sword's power.

Based on this (and assuming I interpreted all of this correctly):

1) Soul Edge will continue being the Zweihander because Inferno is using its own memories when possessing a host and therefore I am assuming Inferno simply prefers and/or is most talented with a zweihander so that will be his weapon for now on.

2) Nightmare's personality and actions (at least in detail) will vary greatly based on the host while still retaining the general personality that is associated with Inferno and its memories implanted in the body, making Raphael's actions as Nightmare probably just a perverted, twisted perception of his own (as well as his thought process and pool of options, ie politics over warfare when available) as Inferno uses the host to achieve its objective.

3) A host of Soul Edge will be used solely for the sword and any original desires or wishes the host has while wielding the sword will be drowned by the will of Soul Edge so it may use the host for its own purposes. Therefore, it is highly unlikely anything Nightmare is doing is what Raphael would want but rather what Soul Edge would want (theories pertaining to the idea that Soul Edge is keeping the host subservient by making said host believe their actions and choices are their own, ie puppet manipulation on the pychological level, are still valid).

The 2nd piece of knowledge we learn is extremely important. The implications (which make sense considering the sword's history) imply that Soul Edge (ie Inferno, the soul of the sword) will continually grow in knowledge and intelligence as it continues to jump from host to host, making it extremely dangerous.

Probably the most important leap we have noticed in Nightmare, his personality and rationale, are because a calculated, political character (Raphael) has perhaps infinite memories of manipulating events and playing politics to help him and his family maintain their status and social class. These memories are now transpired between Soul Edge; the sword now has the memories of Raphael in its arsenal of knowledge.

This means Inferno is no longer restricted by its previous knowledge. A situation involving a character that is extremely powerful and a strategic asset would be limited if Nightmare was still SC-SCIV Nightmare with Siegfried and Cervantes being the only notable hosts. No insult to the character's intelligence, but they clearly were never in an environment that gave them the experience for more complex, sinister schemes (both were essentially bandits, thieves, and/or cutthroats when Soul Edge possessed them as far as their experiences go).

Nightmare's options before: Kill character, devour soul, leave for dead

These options are what would be likely based on what our previous Nightmare has done (the only notable independent action of Nightmare was form a small group which still acted more as an alliance of warriors for a purpose rather than a complex organization).

Nightmare's options now: Kill character, devour soul, leave for dead, torture, manipulate to portray yourself as good guy, manipulate to break the will of the character with your awe-inspiring power, hold as prisoner for a bargaining chip, possess as new host due to their potential, corrupt to your side so that they may be your spy, use as a symbol for intimidation, use in order to lure out an actual threat or rival you desire, give to allies/potential allies in order to improve relations, turn her into a malfested doll to serve your will, etc.

The options are far more laid out and obviously are all things that involve the cunning and manipulation that a character (like Raphael) would have in order to come up with an see these scenarios. Our new Nightmare shows this level of intelligence and if a character like Ivy (who is both smart, has studied heavily on the sword, and knows advanced magic and alchemy) becomes a new host, that only makes Soul Edge even more dangerous as these memories would only strengthen it.

At some point, I would imagine Soul Edge could reach the point where it will be intelligent enough to begin body hopping in order to quickly gain knowledge (or intel from enemies who won't talk) and then return to whatever preferred host body it desires (servants could imprison the host until Nightmare leaps back into it in case it becomes active/alive and tries to escape). Soul Edge has become far more insidious and potentially dangerous, indeed.

--Forgon
Click to expand...


That is a very good theory, backed up with plenty of facts and lot of good sense. I'm really impressed with your post. m(_ _)m

If all that may be true, then Soul Edge is truly devious. But let's not forget that Soul Calibur did manipulate poor Patrokolos to an extent. The only question I have in mind is that will it ever learn from its' hosts in the same way like its' polar opposite? If so, that would make it equally dangerous, am I right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom