Leixia Matchup Chart Discussion Thread

I understand the i10 punisher is a big plus for Natsu, but I think crybaby and FC 3B are more favored towards Leixia.. I seriously think Leixia actually has the advantage here.. One of the few matchups where I don't need to spend meter constantly either.. I'm also starting to think Ivy has an advantage over Leixia for sure.. Seems like she can range Leixia and a lot of her step killers really stop Leixia's mixups.. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 7:3 in Ivy's favor but I'm thinking 6:4..
 
For the last time, Natsu can outrange Crybaby with bombs by simply spacing better. And Leixia has no really good answer to bombs, none. The only way for her to get more than 20-30 or so damage off blocking/jumping Natsu's bombs is to 8/9 B+K them, for which you need godly reflexes (you have a 1-2 frame window, I think, due to 8/9 B+K being so slow on startup) and comboing from there.

Otherwise, the only guaranteed damage is 6KK, that's it. Natsu's WR K (?) outranges and/or outspeeds every single one of Leixia's oki-tools besides 3B and 33_99B at tip range, so her oki-game is out the window as well.

That really fast mid whose input I don't know punishes every single one of Leixia's launchers, even remotely unsafe moves and frame traps. Leixia doesn't have any frame traps against Natsu. No pressure.

Add to that the fact that whenever Leixia launches someones who's already in the air, they fly in a strange arc, making comboing entirely impossible and Natsu can spam jumping moves all day without fear or eating much in return even if Leixia steps, blocks or otherwise whiff-punishes her. And her lows are infinitely better than Leixia's.

35:65/30:70 IMO. That bitch is a nightmare to fight as Leixia. Almost as bad as Mitsurugi.

Algol is a nightmare as well. Leixia has no good response to his bubble pressure because all of her sidestepping moves are either sluggish or actually step towards the opponent before initiating, meaning that even if she steps the bubbles, she'll either get hit by them when trying to retaliate or she'll have to time the step in a way that makes it possible for Algol to block the retaliation.

IMO, Cervantes, Mitsurugi, Algol, Natsu and Nightmare are Leixia's worst match-ups. 30:70 or close to 30:70 the lot of them. Ivy is difficult, but she's 40:60 in my opinion. You just need to play differently against her than you'd play "normally" against most characters.
 
FallenAngelII said:
For the last time, Natsu can outrange Crybaby with bombs by simply spacing better. And Leixia has no really good answer to bombs, none. The only way for her to get more than 20-30 or so damage off blocking/jumping Natsu's bombs is to 8/9 B+K them, for which you need godly reflexes (you have a 1-2 frame window, I think, due to 8/9 B+K being so slow on startup) and comboing from there.
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She has the same answer the whole cast has.. Block low or jump the UB.. Simple... Stop acting like it's hard

Otherwise, the only guaranteed damage is 6KK, that's it. Natsu's WR K (?) outranges and/or outspeeds every single one of Leixia's oki-tools besides 3B and 33_99B at tip range, so her oki-game is out the window as well.

That really fast mid whose input I don't know punishes every single one of Leixia's launchers, even remotely unsafe moves and frame traps. Leixia doesn't have any frame traps against Natsu. No pressure.
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6AB says otherwise.. She has decent pressure on Natsu.. Try harder..
Add to that the fact that whenever Leixia launches someones who's already in the air, they fly in a strange arc, making comboing entirely impossible and Natsu can spam jumping moves all day without fear or eating much in return even if Leixia steps, blocks or otherwise whiff-punishes her. And her lows are infinitely better than Leixia's.

35:65/30:70 IMO. That bitch is a nightmare to fight as Leixia. Almost as bad as Mitsurugi.
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Most ridiculous statement I've seen on this site.. Maybe for you she's a problem, but her lows aren't that much better than Leixia's.. In fact, lots of her verticals like 1A work very well on opponent wakeup.. She is not 3:7 by longshot that is a joke..



IMO, Cervantes, Mitsurugi, Algol, Natsu and Nightmare are Leixia's worst match-ups. 30:70 or close to 30:70 the lot of them. Ivy is difficult, but she's 40:60 in my opinion. You just need to play differently against her than you'd play "normally" against most characters.
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You have no clue what you're talking about.. NM is not a bad matchup at all.. Mitsu isn't all that lopsided either.. I've explained Natsu as well.. You can argue the others being tough though.. You just need to play better, simple... It's not as bad as you suggest.. You are just whining about nerfs that were not as big as you think..
 
Kalas said:
I don't think crybaby should ever be seriously considered when you evaluate a match-up.
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I agree but it really does negate a lot of her lows.. Even if the Natsu spaces, you can always tech or just roll away from them.. Or wake up and block low.. Bombs should not factor too hard in the matchup either...
 
Honestly I think people are underrating Leixia here.. People are acting like most of the cast has a field day against her and that is not the case at all..
 
GoTigers9999 said:
Honestly I think people are underrating Leixia here.. People are acting like most of the cast has a field day against her and that is not the case at all..
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im glad your an optimist but i feel the nightmare vs leixia is completly one sided. Fallen has made good points, but natsu can be frame trapped by leixia. leixia is just as fast as natsu just has a faster AA but you need to look at the whole move list to determine her speed tiger do you play leixia vs good players? because if you do you will find that she struggles vs most of the cast. i think the natsu match up is even and vs any short range character she can at least compete.the main problem with leixia now is that you have to make twice as many good reads vs most of the cast at least in version 1.01 she could at least compete in a brawling match withWR B BE
its actually quite sad but most tournament players are dropping her she was over nerfed. when X devotees like Kayane start dropping her you know something is seriously wrong somewhere. its looking pretty bleak with this version of leixia i hope a patch comes ASAP or im afraid we wont see much of her ill keep maining her even if she becomes e tier. just looking at the bigger picture.
 
Therenovator said:
im glad your an optimist but i feel the nightmare vs leixia is completly one sided. Fallen has made good points, but natsu can be frame trapped by leixia. leixia is just as fast as natsu just has a faster AA but you need to look at the whole move list to determine her speed tiger do you play leixia vs good players? because if you do you will find that she struggles vs most of the cast. i think the natsu match up is even and vs any short range character she can at least compete.the main problem with leixia now is that you have to make twice as many good reads vs most of the cast at least in version 1.01 she could at least compete in a brawling match withWR B BE
its actually quite sad but most tournament players are dropping her she was over nerfed. when X devotees like Kayane start dropping her you know something is seriously wrong somewhere. its looking pretty bleak with this version of leixia i hope a patch comes ASAP or im afraid we wont see much of her ill keep maining her even if she becomes e tier. just looking at the bigger picture.
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I play plenty of good players and she holds her own very well... I do agree with one of you statements that she is even with most of the short range characters in the game.. I'm not saying she is great by any means and she has plenty of lopsided matchups.. But E tier really? Who cares if Kayane dropped her.. You still see people like Mick doing just fine with her.. I'm not saying she is great by any means, but she is not ZWEI or Raph status either...

Finally I also agree that some of the nerfs were unnecessary, but she still has a lot of tools to work with.. She could certainly use a dmg buff I agree...
 
Age_of_Truth said:
WHAT.
Kalas are the constant scrub posts melting your brain?
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I'm so bad I know. =(

To everybody here: keep it civil.
And it's a discussion thread, so don't expect everybody to agree with your opinion. However, if you disagree with someone else's opinion, you don't need to be rude.

Oh, and this forum has an edit-tool, you know...

My opinion on the "hot topics":
Leixia vs Natsu 4-6, mainly for the reasons Zero and Hyrul/Age of truth have mentioned.
Leixia vs Nightmare 4-6
Completely different match-ups to play, but same result in my opinion.
 
Kalas said:
I'm so bad I know. =(

To everybody here: keep it civil.
And it's a discussion thread, so don't expect everybody to agree with your opinion. However, if you disagree with someone else's opinion, you don't need to be rude.

Oh, and this forum has an edit-tool, you know...

My opinion on the "hot topics":
Leixia vs Natsu 4-6, mainly for the reasons Zero and Hyrul/Age of truth have mentioned.
Leixia vs Nightmare 4-6
Completely different match-ups to play, but same result in my opinion.
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I'm trying my best but when Fallen posts his reply to me it's seems like he's attacking my opinions.. Agree to disagree.. I actually agree to 4:6 in NM's favor if not 5:5(my bias obviously).. I just think Natsu vs Leixia is pretty even at this point..
 
Seriously, except maybe a good match up for Leixia vs Viola (but you have to play PERFECTLY, otherwise it's 44A BE/3B etc) , I don't see her having 6-4 in match ups, except against low tiers like Raphael etc...that you never see in tournaments in fact. What she can do best is pretty much 5-5 like VS Patroklos for example (maybe, didn't play him enough though). Otherwise I only see 4-6 or 3-7 VS Alpha Patroklos and maybe Astaroth. It's a shame.

If you hesitate for Natsu Match up, I would say it's 4-6. Why ?
They're both fast characters yeah. But when you know Natsu can punish Leixia's AA, and FC3B etc...with AA...what can you do when you're close to her without taking risks ? She definitely just has to wait to punish...I did play VS Natsu's players like RTD and Hawkeye, that just wait.
My last hope was to wait for them to just AAB without CH confirm...in order to CE to punish. Then, they just don't do it randomly.

If you want to do a low move, which is kinda hard for Leixia since she has to be in 8wayrun (also, why doing 11A when you know it's same damages than 2K for example) , then Natsu just has to A+B if she's feeling it.

They made a ridiculous Leixia with all those patches. And also, did you notice the changes that are not even in the patch notes ? haha, that's like they were too ashame to say it.

Like :

- AA BE B+K : the earthquake : not only that you can't AA anymore after it. But, Leixia doesn't walk in front of the opponent as much as before when doing it. So when you do it, you are not totally close to the opponent anymore most of the time and it doesn't guard crush so : you can be punished easily. And when you fight vs a player like Keev, trust me, you don't want to do that BE anymore. Any option you choose, just AA BE B or B+K, a Nightmare's player can CE any of them in reaction.
- Talking of BE : Didn't see in patch notes there would be a reduce damages of 30 for the WS B BE...LOL
- Before we could do : FC3B, 6B, CE...so that we get around 12 more damages thanks to 6B. With the patch ? After 6B the opponent strangely fall on the floor very fast, you can't do anything else after lol
- Not only the stances like 6B A B are easier to step, they also clearly have less advantages on guard. Sometimes the 44A B just whiff for no reason, they just wanted it to be sooo easy to step.
- CE, 2K ? Most of the characters now are out of range to try to 2K after CE to get more damages.
- 6B A, 6K K ? Why the opponent can guard after 6B A in CH????.....

Just typing that make me frustrated so i'll stop here lol
 
Well I never stated she is 6:4 against anyone really.. I think most matchups are 5-5 respectively.. But I think Algol and Astaroth are certainly uphill battles for her...
 
GoTigers9999 said:
Well I never stated she is 6:4 against anyone really.. I think most matchups are 5-5 respectively.. But I think Algol and Astaroth are certainly uphill battles for her...
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go tiger please stop talking nonsense, you clearly dont know much about leixia if you dont know the difference between fc 3b and 3b and which is faster. leixia is not good now your the only one here saying she has 6 4 match ups. please be realistic you may just have pick her up but shes not as good as your making her out to be. her only bad match ups are astaroth and algol are you serious i know its your opinion but your post is looking more like trolling to me leixia only has 2 or 3 even match the rest are 4 6 or worse. playing at a high level you will stuggle to even get in then when you do you get 41 damage for your troubles please some characters get that with bb poke.
 
Therenovator said:
go tiger please stop talking nonsense you clearly dont know much about leixia if you dont know the difference between fc 3b and 3b leixia is not good now your the only one here saying she has 6 4 match ups please be realistic you may just have pick her up but shes not as good as your making her out to be.
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I think she's good against Natsu is all(my opinion of course and why we have a discussion here).. I never stated she was good against Mitsu or anyone else you guys were talking about.. I said that those are even or slightly in the other characters favor.. When did I say that FC 3B and 3B are the same? What are you talking about?
 
Dude what are you talking about? And btw didn't someone here post previously about having respect? You clearly are not following suit... I said those are the worst matchups and ones you could say 3:7 in the other character's favor.. So you are suggesting that she is 3:7 against half of the cast? Come on... BTW I have a hard time reading your post the way it's constructed...
 
Kayane said:
Seriously, except maybe a good match up for Leixia vs Viola (but you have to play PERFECTLY, otherwise it's 44A BE/3B etc) , I don't see her having 6-4 in match ups, except against low tiers like Raphael etc...that you never see in tournaments in fact. What she can do best is pretty much 5-5 like VS Patroklos for example (maybe, didn't play him enough though). Otherwise I only see 4-6 or 3-7 VS Alpha Patroklos and maybe Astaroth. It's a shame.

If you hesitate for Natsu Match up, I would say it's 4-6. Why ?
They're both fast characters yeah. But when you know Natsu can punish Leixia's AA, and FC3B etc...with AA...what can you do when you're close to her without taking risks ? She definitely just has to wait to punish...I did play VS Natsu's players like RTD and Hawkeye, that just wait.
My last hope was to wait for them to just AAB without CH confirm...in order to CE to punish. Then, they just don't do it randomly.

If you want to do a low move, which is kinda hard for Leixia since she has to be in 8wayrun (also, why doing 11A when you know it's same damages than 2K for example) , then Natsu just has to A+B if she's feeling it.

They made a ridiculous Leixia with all those patches. And also, did you notice the changes that are not even in the patch notes ? haha, that's like they were too ashame to say it.

Like :

- AA BE B+K : the earthquake : not only that you can't AA anymore after it. But, Leixia doesn't walk in front of the opponent as much as before when doing it. So when you do it, you are not totally close to the opponent anymore most of the time and it doesn't guard crush so : you can be punished easily. And when you fight vs a player like Keev, trust me, you don't want to do that BE anymore. Any option you choose, just AA BE B or B+K, a Nightmare's player can CE any of them in reaction.
- Talking of BE : Didn't see in patch notes there would be a reduce damages of 30 for the WS B BE...LOL
- Before we could do : FC3B, 6B, CE...so that we get around 12 more damages thanks to 6B. With the patch ? After 6B the opponent strangely fall on the floor very fast, you can't do anything else after lol
- Not only the stances like 6B A B are easier to step, they also clearly have less advantages on guard. Sometimes the 44A B just whiff for no reason, they just wanted it to be sooo easy to step.
- CE, 2K ? Most of the characters now are out of range to try to 2K after CE to get more damages.
- 6B A, 6K K ? Why the opponent can guard after 6B A in CH????.....

Just typing that make me frustrated so i'll stop here lol
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For Natsu, yeah, Natsu's AA pretty much destroys a lot of Leixia's WS game, but a lot of people who think Natsu's an even match for Leixia are forgetting a core move of any good Natsu player and that's 6A+B4. It's a fast mid at 16 frames (almost the same speed as 6KK), with +11 on hit and -7 on guard. Virtually guarantees nearly every PO attempt, and solidly punishes every one of Leixia's frame trap attempts. Period. There's no middle ground here. Natsu is problematic for Leixia to deal with.

Yes, at tip range Leixia's AA can beat Natsu's AA, but Leixia can't range that well against Natsu. Even if you do push Natsu out, Leixia's move list will just move right back into Natsu's favor range.

There are a few tools that you can use against Natsu. 4A+B beats AAB's last hit (good luck finding a good Natsu player that uses this on normal hit), 44A will duck under A:6 and punish it. And 44B is actually pretty strong on Natsu. But that's about it. You're butting heads against a rushdown character who's got better rushdown and mixups than you. Not to mention much safer stuff.

As for Alpha, he's actually not to bad for Leixia. Part of this is because he's linear and Leixia's good at punishing linear stuff (which why Astaroth can be trouble for Leixia, sine he's good at trapping players), but also because you can play with some of Leixia's frame traps and bait him into doing things that Leixia can punish. Offensively, he's better, but I haven't quite found a player who can truly disable Leixia the way Natsu and others can.

As for Viola... well you can step a blocked 44A BE and punish that. And Viola doesn't have too many tools to beat Leixia's frame traps. Yeah her 3B is stupid, though. Too bad Leixia's isn't quite as good as hers.


Cervantes isn't that bad for Leixia. Patroklos... maybe. Ivy's trouble, but I think its fairly even. Nightmare... I think this is fairly even. Maxi's even. Pyrrha's probably favored slightly towards Pyrrha (22K is destroyed by 3A+B). Xiba's even for now, though I think this might favor Xiba. Raphael is even (too many people seem to underestimate him). ZWEI is favored towards ZWEI. Yoshi I think is even, Siegfried is probably favored. Omega's probably. And Mitsurugi is fairly even I think.

Can't say much about Hilde yet. I think this is favored towards Leixia. 4A+B beats the second hit of A+B. 3A also loses to 4A+B. And Hilde seems to have some trouble zoning Leixia unless she wants to spam 4A all day.
 
Whoa... I was gone for 10 hours and this thread blew up. Lol. So... After my recent tournament today, there'll probably be a few revisions to my own chart. Namely vs Ezio and Asta. As it's clear to me now that post patch Leixia is at disadvantage against them. both 4/6 imo.

Kayane said:
Seriously, except maybe a good match up for Leixia vs Viola (but you have to play PERFECTLY, otherwise it's 44A BE/3B etc)
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Kayane, why would you say she could be advantage vs Viola? I really seem to have problems with this matchup, but I admit I'm not all that familiar with it. Is there something Leixia has to really shut Viola's offense down?
 
As much as I love discussions and Leixia in general, maybe I should stop reading this thread.
People saying that most of her matchups are even make me shake my head.
People saying the truth make me shake my head because they make me realize how crappy Leixia actually is.*sigh* Sometimes I ask myself why I torture myself so much by playing her.

EDIT: She's barely viable.
 
Kalas said:
As much as I love discussions and Leixia in general, maybe I should stop reading this thread.
People saying that most of her matchups are even make me shake my head.
People saying the truth make me shake my head because they make me realize how crappy Leixia actually is.*sigh* Sometimes I ask myself why I torture myself so much by playing her.
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Well, I dunno. I personally feel as though I have too many fundamental problems to be able to pull out a win with her in her current patched state. Maybe if I can find a way to take what I'm already good at and polish my game, I'll be more likely to see it happen. Thing is, she's still gonna be as toned down as she is, even without a thread for this kind of discussion.

Having played Talim for the past 4 years in SC4, I know all too well the frustrations of playing a character you like even though they're just not very good. Sure, I beat big name players and even made it to a grand final once.. but at the end of the day, it's always an uphill battle. Sorry if I went on a rant here, but at the moment I just wish that I was just a stronger player so I could make her tools work for a win.
 
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