Fighting Against Rocks: Z.W.E.I. Matchup Thread

[StormriderAngel]

Oh, of all the characters in the roster, I'm shocked that there's yet to be a Matchup specific thread dedicated to Wolfboy. Better late than never, right? I'll be starting off with ZWEI's more difficult matchups. Let's get to work.

Different options are separated by | notations.

NIGHTMARE:

General Battle Strategy:
Nightmare is a character that specializes in making characters whiff and then punishing them painfully for it. He has damn good step, and for ZWEI that can lead to hitting air pretty easily. Because of this, you're going to want to bait and trap Nightmare using safe frame traps and E.I.N.
Once you have pressure and momentum, maintain that as much as you can because once he gets out of your range and mix-up, your starting over from square one.*

"Main Moves":
| Duck and Punish with WR | Guard and Punish with ,,, or
| Block and Punish , or
| Jump and Punish with , or | Guard and Punish with WR
| Block and Punish with WR | Step and Punish with (psychic timing may be necessary)
| Block the first hit, duck the second and punish with WR
| Step and Punish with | Punish with | Very Slow
** | Just Guard and Punish with , or | Guard and Punish with
(BE) | Block the first hit, duck the second, Punish with :B (easier than it sounds)
(CE) | Sidestep....Punish with anything you want. I'd go with , | Just Guard it like a boss



| Block the first two hits, Punish with | Duck the second hit, Punish with WR
| Block the first hit and jump the second, Punish with
LA: | Punish with **
| Block the first hit and jump the second, Punish with , or | the first hit
| Duck and Punish with WR | JG and Punish with , or
| Block the first hit and Punish with | Block the first hit and Punish with
| Step and Punish with
| Block the first hit, Punish with
| Step and Punish with
| Block and Punish with :D
| Block the first hit, Punish with
:a6: | Block and Punish with or
| Punish with | Step and punish with | Block and punish with WR
| Step and punish with | Punish with
| Just Guard and Punish with or | Step and punish with
WC | Step and Punish with | Punish with
WR | Block and punish with , or
*(BE) | Block the first hit and punish with

"Stance Attacks":
Grim Stride:
GS | Block and Punish with , , , or | Duck and Punish with WR
GS | Step and Punish with | Punish with
GS | Block and Punish with , or
Night Side Stance:
NSS | Punish with | Step and Punish with
NSS | Block and Punish with WR| Jump and Punish with , or
NSS | Block and Punish with , , or
NSS | Block and Punish with or
NSS | Duck and Punish with WR | Block and Punish with or

MITSURUGI:

General Battle Strategy:
Mitsurigi has very few weakness that can be exploited so playing intellgently and defensivly is pretty important against him. Try spacing and baiting Mitsurugi's more unsafe moves to punish. He doesn't have many frame traps, so use general knowlegdge of his moves and frames to give yourself the advantage.

"Main Moves":
| JG and Punish with or : | Punish with | Step and Punish with
* | JG and punish with or | Punish with
| Block and Punish with WR | Punish with B | Jump and Punish with and :
| Block and Punish with , , , or | Punish with
: | Punish with | Block the first hit, Just Guard the second, and Punish with , , , or
** | Block the first hit and Punish with
(BE) | Block the both hits and Punish with or
| with , , , or Punishable on hit
(CE): Block and Punish with

| Step and Punish with
** | Step and Punish with or | Punish with
| Block and Punish with or
| Block and Punish with WR | Block the first hit, JG and Punish with or
| Punish with | Block and Punish with , or
| Punish with | Step and Punish with
| Block the first hit, Duck the second and punsh with WR
*| Jump and Punish with or

"Stance Attacks":
Silent Step: All Grim Stride attacks hit Mid, so is always a safe bet again....huh...
SS | Punish with | JG and Punish with , , or
SS | Punish with | Block and Punish with
Mist:
MST | Duck and Punish with WR | JG and Punish with
MST | Block and Punish with WR
MST | Step and Punish with | Punish with


Once new Anti-Character Lists are added, I'll be putting them into spoiler tags to keep the post from getting to cluttered. I'll also be adding things based on suggestions and changing any glaring flaws.

 

[Lasercakes]

Pretty good effort. I wanted to get a thread like this started, but I haven't found the time.

Mitsu 4B:
You don't need to JG it though it's easy enough with practice. This move retracks if you try to interrupt it so just step, wait for it to whiff, then punish.

For some reason you have "all grimstride attacks hit mid," but you know GS A hits high.
2A beats all transitions in GS on block, but you need to watch for Night to commit to the GS otherwise your whiffed 2A will put you in a bad spot.

Pretty sure you can also WR B Night's 4K BE, though the timing is probably tighter.



I would like to see what people think about Zwei vs Astaroth. I will post some of my own findings with other characters once finals end.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

About astaroth....I think its in his favor but zwei can still pull it off tho. For now tho Astaroth's B6B, the second B in that string can be auto GI with zwei's 6 A+B for a free 40 damage. But since zwei's auto Gi rather has a tighter window compared to other chars auto GI, u have to do it rather fasts. I'll try and come up with some more stuff against asta later when I have the chance.

 

[Lasercakes]

Snip

Well the thing is, Astaroth's moves push Zwei out into a useless position for him. If you try position yourself better, it only gets better for Astaroth. Moves like (B), (A), and B+K leave him in a far favorable position to yours. The whole thing seems like a giant zoning nightmare.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Well the thing is, Astaroth's moves push Zwei out into a useless position for him. If you try position yourself better, it only gets better for Astaroth. Moves like (B), (A), and B+K leave him in a far favorable position to yours. The whole thing seems like a giant zoning nightmare.

I agree. And no good zwei player will ever try and do 6 A+B when astaroth attempts to 22B,A+B,44A....thats just lol
I don't think its a total loss for zwei like 2-8 for example, but erm it's still not good :/

 

[Requiem]

aPat has some advantage against Z.W.E.I. matchup-wise, doesn't he? He can dodge 1B] EIN with so many moves, including Twister, 214B:B, bA and others. He can punish 1A with a Twister. Damn, he's got twister, which is alone one of (if not the) best moves in the game, which is also fast enough to interrupt 4A] even on hit iirc.

 

[Lasercakes]

aPat has some advantage against Z.W.E.I. matchup-wise, doesn't he? He can dodge 1B] EIN with so many moves, including Twister, 214B:B, bA and others. He can punish 1A with a Twister. Damn, he's got twister, which is alone one of (if not the) best moves in the game, which is also fast enough to interrupt 4A] even on hit iirc.

You shouldn't be throwing out 1B like that anyway. Only use it in combos and oki. Same deal with 1A.

I think the most upsetting thing is Zwei can't punish bA because of the knock back. Normally Alpha wouldn't just throw it out because it's -21, but Alpha has no reason not to abuse it.

Edit: Oops, looks like I'm dumb.

 

[Aziz]

^it can be punished with A+B

 

[DB4777]

Words cannot begin to describe how much I hate fighting Leixia. Any pointers? Anti Maxi tips too. Scrubs are no problem, but sitting back and waiting for him to loop isn't viable against people that actually know how to use him.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

wow this thread has been absent for about a month :/ oh the sorrow! well time to revive it....now Im going to go over the matchup between Zwei vs Astaroth. Now to play astaroth gotta understand that this guy it's all about Rock/paper/scissors with him meaning it's a guessing game with him, that's just how his mechanic works..and it's been like that since SC2.

Now this matchup is not as bad as u think it is....but it does require more skill from the zwei player even more so than the astaroth player simply because his tools are far more broader and effective than yours. Ok if Astaroth is spamming 66K (bullrush) i advise you to just guard this move(if u can), or even go for zwei's auto gi (6A+B) in this matchup. Backstepping into B+K works fine just I wish they fix the hit issues with 4B on this move.....as for his throws although zwei isn't a good punishing char his 6B poke is +6 on hit and you should follow up with a throw, 2A perhaps even 4A.
Against asta's B6B you have several options to either just guard it, step or do 6A+b. Now careful of using 6A+b against asta's long range attacks because at a certain range Ein won't reach asta far enough after the GI. Damage wise I feel zwei is ok .Whiff punish asta with 66BA, land a few 4B BE's on him and set him up into guarding 214B.

This fight is all about who can maintain the pressure throughout and fight and who's better at conditioning his/her opponent. For asta it's his mid range/ throw and guard break game vs zwei's guardbreak,6A+b and B+K BE setups.
This is all my opinion but I put this matchup 5.5 in asta's favor....if the zwei player can't make good use of 6A+B on good reads or just guard then it's gonna feel like a 6-4 against him.

 

[StormriderAngel]

My apologies for not updating the thread what-so-ever like I promised I would. I've been spending the past month learning other characters and trying main Cervy as my punisher character. Oddly enough, the more I train with other character the stronger I ZWEI is. I plan on solely switching between the two, and that means I'm going to need some match up knowledge.

I'll be working on more lists of counters and strategies very soon, and I'll make sure to correct and update the information based on what you all have to say.

And solid advise JA. I've always thought of ZWEI v ASTA as a relatively even matchup myself, but I have yet to do the hard research necessary to back it up.

 

[theoriginal]

Do you guys have any anti Ivy strategies? In particular any anti 214B strategies? It seems to blow Z.W.E.I. up no matter what he wants to do at close range, and then if you try to space she has tools to deal with that too.

 

[Aziz]

step to her left side

 

[theoriginal]

I'll remember that, but what if the 214b isn't being so predictably abused but instead being used in reaction to my moves? Even when she's at disadvantage it seems to be her "get out of jail free" card.

Edit: OK, stepping to her left has been working out. Also on prediction I can usually counter with 6a, but I thought this move was a tech crouch? Or maybe I'm hitting her out of it before the crouch is active.

 

[TwistedAsura]

Snip

I find against the average to better Ast 6A+B is a savior. It works on a lot of chains. Recently the only way I have been able to beat ast is just guarding his double headbutt and getting a basic punish off. JG and countering is my main plastyle for Ast. 1(B slight hold) is nice because I can run up to Astaroth and create a bb and grab mixup. I always make sure not to use 1(B) to much because of the duckable second move which can lead to major punishments.

 

[Lasercakes]

I find against the average to better Ast 6A+B is a savior. It works on a lot of chains. Recently the only way I have been able to beat ast is just guarding his double headbutt and getting a basic punish off. JG and countering is my main plastyle for Ast. 1(B slight hold) is nice because I can run up to Astaroth and create a bb and grab mixup. I always make sure not to use 1(B) to much because of the duckable second move which can lead to major punishments.

Yeah sounds like you're asking to be bull rushed.

 

[TwistedAsura]

Yeah sounds like you're asking to be bull rushed.

Yeah.I have a lot of trouble against ast because I cant get close and he pushes me back and breaks my guard unless I just guard.I never use 6A+B on a longer range attack because most of the time it wont work so I gave up on that unless I know its a chain I can counter like the low sweep then guard breaker move.

 

[Bloodpixel]

Any tips against Viola? Against a good Viola player, I can't seem to even touch Viola. What moves are punishable?

 

[TwistedAsura]

Any tips against Viola? Against a good Viola player, I can't seem to even touch Viola. What moves are punishable?

I know this sucks but just JG as much as you can. I can never get close so I play keep away then wait until she makes a mistake and close in as fast as I can. When you are close BB,AA and 3AA are you best friends. Viola is not used to being interrupted so when she is most violas I see will guard preparing for an oncoming attack. That's when I try for a 4A or 1B mixup or even just a grab.

 

[Bloodpixel]

I swear, all I see are Violas and Nightmares now. I just played 6 violas and 4 nightmares in a row.
Great. It's time to practice JGs now...