Matchup Discussion: Leixia VS. Viola

Ring, Truth, can one of you explain to me the exact setup for SET 6B+K, 3A that is so strong? I coulda sworn I tested stuff on it and I was able to crybaby or roll away from the orb. What specific KND gives her this trap? I'm trying to test a few things.
 
Age_of_Truth said:
Yeah 3A is the best move, I'm not sure why Viola players use 6B, maybe range? But 3A means you can't even step.
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More range and it's easier to connect because 6B gives more advantage on hit.

ZeroEffect317 said:
Ring, Truth, can one of you explain to me the exact setup for SET 6B+K, 3A that is so strong? I coulda sworn I tested stuff on it and I was able to crybaby or roll away from the orb. What specific KND gives her this trap? I'm trying to test a few things.
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I don't think they are talking about being knocked down or a wake-up in particular. I think Ring means that when both opponents are standing and Viola is somehow safe enough to do 6B+K, it's really hard to interrupt or evade the set-up.

But if I'd try to answer your question... well, a lot of them but her 8A+B is a good example.
 
Yeah, that's what I meant. This is a 50/50 mixup (6B+K into 1K or 3A) against a standing opponent. There's no way to stop 6B+K spam. It can be used whenever, mostly when Viola blocks your move and you're at disadvantage.

Against a KND opponent, 6B+K into 1K or 3B seems to works most of the time. It hits grounded.

ZeroEffect317 said:
To be honest, right now I don't think any character can straight up beat Viola. So hey, I got as good a chance as anybody.
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Viola has real problems against long range/spacing type of characters. She can only fight at close to mid range. If she can't get close she will lose. Her weak punishment game is her another big weakness. She can be spammed with unsafe moves and she won't be able to do anything about it. SET AAB and BBB have very limited range. That's why I think Ivy vs Viola is in Ivy's favor for example. Lot's of Ivy's ranged moves are basically risk free against Viola, even though they are heavily unsafe on block.

Not that Leixia benefits much from this as she is one of the safest characters in the game, but she can still abuse her weakness with moves like 3B used at distance.

Viola does have some bad matchups, she's the "weakest" (not in terms of damage, tho lol) of the top tiers imo (maybe that will change in time, I can't say yet)
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Ring, Truth, can one of you explain to me the exact setup for SET 6B+K, 3A that is so strong? I coulda sworn I tested stuff on it and I was able to crybaby or roll away from the orb. What specific KND gives her this trap? I'm trying to test a few things.
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You are right during okizeme situations (which are the staple situations for Viola to enforce the mix-up). BUT if you stay grounded, 1K, 6B+K will still combo. After that, you're still grounded, giving Viola a fresh mix-up. This is why she can make you stand up for the mix-up. Of course, Leixia's crybaby can really help to mess with the setup and throw the Viola player off.

However, 3A is more useful for Viola when you are both standing. 6B and 1K can both be stepped, making 3A excellent against opponents who try to beat the whole mix-up with a side step.

It's risky, but I think you have to sometimes attack Viola at disadvantage, and thus interrupt 6B+K follow-up, to stop her from having this mix-up for free (this is what I did when I played Trace in the EU tournament). She's then likely to use 3B more, which you have to be sure to punish.

It's not an especially safe or methodical way to play, but you have to do it because Viola wants you to turtle. When she takes a few CH she'll be less liberal with her 6B+K setups. She's an unorthodox character, in that advantage and disadvantage don't mean the same thing in Viola matches because of the orb, and this makes fighting her uncomfortable for regular SC players.

Ikuwayo said:
More range and it's easier to connect because 6B gives more advantage on hit.
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Ah ok thanks, makes sense.

Ring said:
Viola does have some bad matchups, she's the "weakest" (not in terms of damage, tho lol) of the top tiers imo (maybe that will change in time, I can't say yet)
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The French agree with you there. I'm interested to see if people come up with even more powerful setups, but for now I'll go with what you guys think.
 
Truth you're right about attacking at disadvantage. I was about to suggest 44B to escape 3A (on prediction of course) and that if you eat 1K she doesn't get a combo off the SET 6B+K orb hit. So you can do things like GI, JG, 8WR right if you think she'll do something linear, even 1B+K to escape throw mixups after the orb hit. The best way to die is to freeze and block against her...

...hey maybe she really is Amy after all.
 
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Don't forget jumping attacks too. This means even if she does a mid, she won't be able to continue into any kind of devastating combo. Spamming jumps was another thing I did to Trace. Generally I think jump attacks are pretty useful, and buffed in this game, especially with super-early TJ frames (though these early frames don't work against throws)
 
If she has the meter, 44A BE is scary anti-jump. Viola can relaunch after the ground stun with 2B+K BE for... whatever juggle she needs.
 
What I'm referring to is that this was known as a tech trap, not a combo. It can be easily done is training mode but when you set your opponent to ukemi it becomes hard to do and it's character specific, which is probably why it wasn't listed anywhere as a guaranteed.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Is there even such a thing as a counter pick to Viola? No idea what she even struggles with honestly.
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Woahhzz thinks the match is in Leixia's favor. I honestly don't believe Viola has any matchup inherently in her favor (only that her pressure game and damage off of 3b and 44a can makeup for a bunch of stuff), except maybe Ivy and/or Ast...but I'll admit I haven't gotten to play the former enough to say. Viola's speed is pretty average, all of her stepkill requires her to be in just about breathing range (outside of 66a and 22a+b), her body is pretty much her hitbox and hurtbox on all of her attack, she has mediocre range, and she can't punish worth a shit.

I also think that Nightmare, Cervy, and Mits kill her (also theoretically oPyr...but haven't gotten to test that enough). I would also say Natsu but I only have my matches vs. Hawkeye to base that off of, so I can't really say. I've only gotten to play vs. Thugish's Leixia once with Viola (and he doesn't know her well) so I also have nothing to base that off of.

Theoretically, it should be a very hard match for Viola, as Leixia has everything she needs to be a problem vs. her...but, like I said...I don't think many matches are in Viola's favor...just that her pressure can make up for them.
 
LostProvidence said:
Woahhzz thinks the match is in Leixia's favor. I honestly don't believe Viola has any matchup inherently in her favor (only that her pressure game and damage off of 3b and 44a can makeup for a bunch of stuff), except maybe Ivy and/or Ast...but I'll admit I haven't gotten to play the former enough to say. Viola's speed is pretty average, all of her stepkill requires her to be in just about breathing range (outside of 66a and 22a+b), her body is pretty much her hitbox and hurtbox on all of her attack, she has mediocre range, and she can't punish worth a shit.

I also think that Nightmare, Cervy, and Mits kill her (also theoretically oPyr...but haven't gotten to test that enough). I would also say Natsu but I only have my matches vs. Hawkeye to base that off of, so I can't really say. I've only gotten to play vs. Thugish's Leixia once with Viola (and he doesn't know her well) so I also have nothing to base that off of.

Theoretically, it should be a very hard match for Viola, as Leixia has everything she needs to be a problem vs. her...but, like I said...I don't think many matches are in Viola's favor...just that her pressure can make up for them.
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That's the thing though. If her pressure game makes up for her weaknesses, how could the match possibly be in Leixia's favor? I'm sure Leixia has the tools, but you're still playing around Viola, which is a disadvantage in and of itself. You can't really dictate the match at all that I can tell.

As for step kill, she can also use 4A+B (I think that's the input) where she goes "spin" and the orb goes around her. SET 4A+B the orb hits twice and reaches a good bit away. It hits at the range Leixia wants to move around. I don't think it does good damage, but it's annoying enough to make people respect it.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
That's the thing though. If her pressure game makes up for her weaknesses, how could the match possibly be in Leixia's favor? I'm sure Leixia has the tools, but you're still playing around Viola, which is a disadvantage in and of itself. You can't really dictate the match at all that I can tell.

As for step kill, she can also use 4A+B (I think that's the input) where she goes "spin" and the orb goes around her. SET 4A+B the orb hits twice and reaches a good bit away. It hits at the range Leixia wants to move around. I don't think it does good damage, but it's annoying enough to make people respect it.
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Spin is actually pretty slow and, if you're moving towards her, it'll whiff. The point I was making about tools pretty much boils down to she doesn't have anything that really shuts down an aspect of a character's game (except maybe long-range spacing); she has stuff to put guessing into her favor. Without 6
 
Accidentally sent that. Still, typing from my phone so I wll just say tha, while Viola is good (and has a lot of room for mindgames), she's only effective at a couple of things. Lots of her stuff can be played around but she's good, new, and plays differently. I think Mits, oPyr, and aPa are better than her (but maybe I'm just thinking in a tradtional SC sort of way), but the thing is that's the stuff we're used to. Pretty much, youvejust gotta lab some of the stuff up (which you should be doing for anything that's giving you problems).
 
LostProvidence said:
Accidentally sent that. Still, typing from my phone so I wll just say tha, while Viola is good (and has a lot of room for mindgames), she's only effective at a couple of things. Lots of her stuff can be played around but she's good, new, and plays differently. I think Mits, oPyr, and aPa are better than her (but maybe I'm just thinking in a tradtional SC sort of way), but the thing is that's the stuff we're used to. Pretty much, youvejust gotta lab some of the stuff up (which you should be doing for anything that's giving you problems).
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Lol, of course. She's definitely a character I'm in the process of figuring out.
 
I think it's going to take a different type of player to play her effectively, so...the sooner you all beat people who are, bandwagoning her, the sooner more people drop her, the sooner people stop complaining so much about her. I could give ideas where to start but I don't want to make things harder on myself. >_>

But, yeah, after you figure her out...perhaps we can tackle the Beast Known as Mits... =(
 
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