Balance Patch Discussion

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Wandrian said:
Oh, and nerfs to Astaroth. What and why?
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because its probably the most bad developed character in the game maybe...

He is not strong enough for some matchup but has autowin matchups......
I wouldn t ask to nerf him but rebalance him completely...

66KBE has to go, its on the same league of 1.01 leixia great wall (wrBE) his 22B and 22BE should be reworked to avoid wall combo nonsense and overtracking.

Then he should be buffed in those areas where he has problems expecially studying his worse matchups.

Nerf+buffs but don t make it a character based on 9:1 and 1:9 matchups -.-
 
lxhizy said:
i'm still a trending topic on this topic ioi
and yes, zwei deserves a nerf
pyrrha a buff
nightmare a SUPER nerf, the biggest nerf everrrrrr in any freakin video game
and i'm not gonna start with mitsu... mitsu MITSU...
natsu should be buffed as well, her damage just isn't right

hilde, aeon and raphael need some nerfs as well
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This cracked me up. So badly...
 
Real_Bojack said:
The only major issue I've ever had using Raph since SC2 days was his damage out put. He doesn't have to become a homogenized Mitsu 50/50 bonanza in damage terms nor become a Viola frame party to make up for his short comings. He has all the tools he needs they just don't hurt enough so Raph ends up giving NM plenty of time to land his 80% wall splat combo and win.
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Raphael

B+G W! 3A W! 3B, BBB, CE - 127
B+G W! 3A W! 3B, BB BE - 109 damage.

I dunno, I wish my non powerhouse character named Leixia could get 109 damage off a grab. >>

Look, I'm sorry, but I think out of this, he does fine damage. I know you weren't complaining, you were being optimistic, but I don't even see what's wrong with his damage. Personally, I see more wrong with Nightmare's than your characters, in terms of Nightmare's wall damage is stupid.
 
AKNova7 said:
Raphael

B+G W! 3A W! 3B, BBB, CE - 127
B+G W! 3A W! 3B, BB BE - 109 damage.
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There's a few problems with those combos you cherry picked:
  1. People have next to no reason NOT to break B+G when their back is to the wall against Raphael
  2. You need to be fairly close to the wall to get a consistent wall splat with B+G
  3. You must be PERFECTLY aligned for 3A to re-wall splat - if you're not, you don't even get a knock down
Basically, you just picked his highest damage combos that he gets using a wall and meter, which some characters can beat without using a wall, without using meter, or without using either of those.

AKNova7 said:
I dunno, I wish my non powerhouse character named Leixia could get 109 damage off a grab. >>/
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Save me the complaints about your character, she's fine.

Trust me when I say you DON'T want her doing that sort of damage with a grab, because you have much better options for a wall splat than a single grab that is one of Raphael's only methods of getting a wall splat and extremely telegraphed against someone who knows him.

AKNova7 said:
Look, I'm sorry, but I think out of this, he does fine damage. I know you weren't complaining, you were being optimistic, but I don't even see what's wrong with his damage.
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If you don't see what's wrong, then you should ask for elaborations and clarifications, instead of posting half-baked proof to the contrary that only shows your ignorance of the situation. There's no shame in admitting ignorance in terms of game and character design, as it's an extremely complicated field, but you do more harm than good by making those kinds of posts.
 
darkfender said:
because its probably the most bad developed character in the game maybe...
He is not strong enough for some matchup but has autowin matchups......
I wouldn t ask to nerf him but rebalance him completely...
66KBE has to go, its on the same league of 1.01 leixia great wall (wrBE) his 22B and 22BE should be reworked to avoid wall combo nonsense and overtracking.
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I agree with his assessment of Asta being a character with severe exploitable weaknesses and also exploitable strengths, but I don't know if a complete redesign is necessary.

Maybe it's intended that he is that he's a matchup specialist, because he's straight-forward and easy to use so people can pocket him for matchups unfavourable.

Overall, I think he slots nicely into a character which you can cheese to death (if you're a lamer), but at the same time can turn the match around with 2 hits or a ringout. However, "strengths" of the character shouldn't rest on the shoulders of just a couple of key moves with several strong properties. 22BE should drop the tracking if anything (not sure if people like trying to step against astaroth that much in the first place, and I figured he has other moves to beat rollers) to maintain the high-risk, high-reward aspect of the move.


Heaton said:
dissected ownage of Aknova7
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Ouch. Good assessment, in that a ~130 damage combo requiring an unbroken grab, a wall, specific impact angle, and 1 bar actually does the opposite of showing Raph as an unstoppable powerhouse.
Aknova's credibility has always been questionable considering his posting history.
As mediocre as his wallsplay potential is, Raph's ringout game is even more lacking lol.
 
darkfender said:
because its probably the most bad developed character in the game maybe...

He is not strong enough for some matchup but has autowin matchups......
I wouldn t ask to nerf him but rebalance him completely...

66KBE has to go, its on the same league of 1.01 leixia great wall (wrBE) his 22B and 22BE should be reworked to avoid wall combo nonsense and overtracking.

Then he should be buffed in those areas where he has problems expecially studying his worse matchups.

Nerf+buffs but don t make it a character based on 9:1 and 1:9 matchups -.-
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I would HATE to play the games that you come up with.
 
I had a witty response for Aknova but Heats beat me to it. Basically, Raph ONLY gets decent combo damage off of walls, abusing resets, burning all his meter, or some other parlor tricks.

It's not even combo damage that I would complain about. His pokes lack any kind of real impact which is what he's based on. If they're out of throw range I have next to nothing that isn't telegraphed or is scary. This is because nearly nothing he does hurts or he takes considerable risk to do something that does and often backfires.

I don't want others to be nerfed I want Raph to be buffed. I sincerely believe that damage buffs (minor ones at that) is all he really needs. All he's ever really needed. In SC2 his strongest combo yielded like 80 damage. Asta got that off a bunch of things. Sadly nothing has changed since 2. *le sigh*
 
Here's a kooky idea: what if Mitsu 4B hit high? It'd still be useful when used cleverly, but then a lot of attacks with TC would beat it and at least some of the MST mixups. Things like 2A/FC A attacks could beat it at close range, but both players would need to be smart about it to have their attack land in that kind of situation. If it starts whiffing against FC/TC it suddenly has an exploitable weakness but IMO wouldn't be a braindead counter to everything or be excessively vulnerable to braindead counters itself. Off the top of my head, if it was a high attack the only braindead counters to it would be itself(TC for double whiff! woohoo!) and Tira JS 66AA. Or would that be too much?
 
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