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Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
Silence! Getting All Five Hits
This is all any of us want from this move - all five stomps connecting, giving that powerful, invigorating feeling of accomplishment and triumph over your opponent. As we know, however, getting all five hits is much more difficult than it used to be on account of Siegfried sliding back ever so slightly with each stomp.
CH 66K ~ W! gives a possible stomping scenario if Siegfried is slightly off-center of the wall where his right side is closer to the wall. If his left side is closer, or he is perfectly perpendicular to the wall, the stomps will whiff and give your opponent opportunity to punish you. Note that if Siegfried is too close to the right wall - that is, parallel or near-parallel - the stomps will also whiff and leave you open. I urge you to go into Training Mode to experiment and better understand the exact positioning I'm referring to. At this angle, 3(B) will generally not re-wall splat, and 2KKKKK is the optimal choice for damage.
The utilization of 2KKKKK differs depending on when you start stomping them. There are two options available to you:
I honestly think there might be even more damage possible with that Left Tech re-wall splat combo, but I'm not the best at doing combos except by accident - I'll leave that for anyone else to try and unearth. Still, I'm assuming most of you didn't expect any combo that had 2K anywhere in it to break even 70 damage - I know I certainly didn't.
The second situation - where the stomps are all done on a grounded opponent - is definitely not the situation you want to be looking for, since there are almost always more damaging, safer options around. However, there is one oddball, one-in-a-million chance where you can hit it:
66A ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK - 71 damage (must be perfectly perpendicular to wall)
This is actually the best damage you can get off of this wall splat without spending meter on a CE. 2KKKKK is also guaranteed post SBH A if you hit from up close, but the maximum amount of stomps I've gotten is only four, and I spent about ten minutes of really stupid positioning trying to figure out just how to get above three. The point being - stomping an already grounded opponent is almost always going to turn out poorly for you.
The last scenario I thought stomping could possibly be useful in is against Leixia's Crybaby (While Grounded A+B). I was very much disappointed. In the event that she tries to do it twice, or she blocks high in anticipation of a ground hitting mid, you will only get two stomps maximum before Siegfried slides away like the smooth criminal he is. I haven't studied anti-Leixia in depth, but I can tell you that 2KKKKK is not the answer.
In conclusion, this move has changed drastically from past iterations, and is nearly useless now. It does have one niche use after certain perfectly angled wall splats, and since fishing for CH 66K near a wall is not a bad idea in nearly any circumstance, it might be worth it to try to set it up and see if you can hit it. Make sure that you recognize the exact angle you have to be at for all of the stomps to hit - otherwise you're going to be eating some big really damage that should have been for your opponent.
UPDATE - December 13th, 2012
You can use 2KKKKK to hurt people badly at the wall. This is off 88A, which is great because you're probably already using this to fish for wall hits anyway. What you want to do is hit 88A and the subsequent 3B at such an angle that you're ever so slightly to Siegfried's left of them, while still on axis enough that the 3(B) gives you the high wall splat. When you do the 2KKKKK, you're going to end up stomping mostly on their rear calf, because it's the only part sticking out from their hitbox. For some, you can end up stomping across their entire body - experiment and see what angle is consistent for which character.
In my opinion it's easiest to start out on α Patroklos, Algol, Astaroth, or Mitsurugi, though you can do it on all of the characters listed below:
Here's a combo list, with regular BnBs listed for comparison:
The Rationale Behind Nerfing
The best I can speculate is that 2KKKKK made Siegfried really god damn obnoxious at the wall. To be fair, he still is - the damage difference between current BnBs and 2KKKKK combos aren't all that different. That is, they're not all that different until you take into account Clean Hits and meter options. 66B has a Clean Hit rate of B, which is fairly often, and 2(A+B) ~ SBH k(BE) does 20 damage more than SSH BBB or 66B enders for either combos. Not to mention, the tech traps off of 2KKKKK quickly reach ludicrous levels of meterless damage.
Thus, instead of nerfing the combo enders and possibly ruining them elsewhere, they nerfed the move that gave these situations - 2KKKKK. It wouldn't be too big of a deal, since he still has a serviceable low okizeme tool in 1K, and he doesn't lose too much damage from the wall combo damage, since he has SSH BBB. So nerfing 2KKKKK was probably the logical nerfing choice for trying to reign in his wall combo damage without neutering him too much in other areas.
At least, it WOULD be logical if they didn't nerf 2A+B in a subsequent patch. =P
This is all any of us want from this move - all five stomps connecting, giving that powerful, invigorating feeling of accomplishment and triumph over your opponent. As we know, however, getting all five hits is much more difficult than it used to be on account of Siegfried sliding back ever so slightly with each stomp.
CH 66K ~ W! gives a possible stomping scenario if Siegfried is slightly off-center of the wall where his right side is closer to the wall. If his left side is closer, or he is perfectly perpendicular to the wall, the stomps will whiff and give your opponent opportunity to punish you. Note that if Siegfried is too close to the right wall - that is, parallel or near-parallel - the stomps will also whiff and leave you open. I urge you to go into Training Mode to experiment and better understand the exact positioning I'm referring to. At this angle, 3(B) will generally not re-wall splat, and 2KKKKK is the optimal choice for damage.
The utilization of 2KKKKK differs depending on when you start stomping them. There are two options available to you:
- while they are still standing, which will give you a stun if all five stomps connect
- while they are grounded, which keeps them grounded for as many stomps as you connect
Code:
Starter is CH 66K ~ W!
2KKKKK ~ 66B 75 damage / 79 damage Clean Hit
2KKKKK ~ 2*8B+K ~ SCH B 77 damage
2KKKKK ~ B+K ~ SBH k(BE) 82 damage / 0.5 meter
2KKKKK ~ 22BB 86 damage*
2KKKKK ~ CE 94 damage / 1.0 meter
2KKKKK ~ 66B 115 damage / 126 damage Clean Hit
2KKKKK ~ (Delay) 3A ~ 2(A+B) ~ SBH k(BE) 166 (Right) / 171 (Front) / 187 (Back) damage
2KKKKK ~ G ~ 3A ~ W! ~ 6K ~ W! ~ A+G*B+G 150 damage (Left Tech Only)
2KKKKK ~ G ~ 3A ~ W! ~ 3(B) ~ W! ~ SCH B ~ CE 185 damage (Left Tech Only)
2KKKKK ~ G ~ 3A ~ W! ~ 6B ~ W! ~ 66k(BE) ~ SCH k(BE) ~ CE 195 damage / 2.0 meter (Left Tech Only)
*Must use 22 input - 88 whiffs miraculously
The second situation - where the stomps are all done on a grounded opponent - is definitely not the situation you want to be looking for, since there are almost always more damaging, safer options around. However, there is one oddball, one-in-a-million chance where you can hit it:
66A ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK - 71 damage (must be perfectly perpendicular to wall)
This is actually the best damage you can get off of this wall splat without spending meter on a CE. 2KKKKK is also guaranteed post SBH A if you hit from up close, but the maximum amount of stomps I've gotten is only four, and I spent about ten minutes of really stupid positioning trying to figure out just how to get above three. The point being - stomping an already grounded opponent is almost always going to turn out poorly for you.
The last scenario I thought stomping could possibly be useful in is against Leixia's Crybaby (While Grounded A+B). I was very much disappointed. In the event that she tries to do it twice, or she blocks high in anticipation of a ground hitting mid, you will only get two stomps maximum before Siegfried slides away like the smooth criminal he is. I haven't studied anti-Leixia in depth, but I can tell you that 2KKKKK is not the answer.
In conclusion, this move has changed drastically from past iterations, and is nearly useless now. It does have one niche use after certain perfectly angled wall splats, and since fishing for CH 66K near a wall is not a bad idea in nearly any circumstance, it might be worth it to try to set it up and see if you can hit it. Make sure that you recognize the exact angle you have to be at for all of the stomps to hit - otherwise you're going to be eating some big really damage that should have been for your opponent.
---------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE - December 13th, 2012
You can use 2KKKKK to hurt people badly at the wall. This is off 88A, which is great because you're probably already using this to fish for wall hits anyway. What you want to do is hit 88A and the subsequent 3B at such an angle that you're ever so slightly to Siegfried's left of them, while still on axis enough that the 3(B) gives you the high wall splat. When you do the 2KKKKK, you're going to end up stomping mostly on their rear calf, because it's the only part sticking out from their hitbox. For some, you can end up stomping across their entire body - experiment and see what angle is consistent for which character.
In my opinion it's easiest to start out on α Patroklos, Algol, Astaroth, or Mitsurugi, though you can do it on all of the characters listed below:
Code:
α Patroklos*
Aeon**
Astaroth
Cervantes
Ezio Auditore
Hilde
Maxi
Mitsurugi
Tira***
Voldo
Xiba
Yoshimitsu
Z.W.E.I.
*He moonwalks with you! Looks super jank.
**Requires a different angle compared to others; think a little more parallel with him
***Jolly only
Here's a combo list, with regular BnBs listed for comparison:
Code:
Starter is 88A ~ W!
- 6K ~ W! ~ Back Throw 92 damage
- 66K ~ W! ~ Back Throw 94 damage
- 3(B)~ W! ~ G ~ WR (B) ~ SCH B 96 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 6B+K ~ SRSH B ~ 22BB 99 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 4B+K ~ SSH BBB 101 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK ~ 66B 102 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK ~ A+B 104 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK ~ 2(A+B) ~ SBH k(BE) 119 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK ~ 66B (tech) 132 damage
- 3(B) ~ W! ~ 2KKKKK ~ 66B (tech) ~ W! ~ CE 203 damage
The Rationale Behind Nerfing
The best I can speculate is that 2KKKKK made Siegfried really god damn obnoxious at the wall. To be fair, he still is - the damage difference between current BnBs and 2KKKKK combos aren't all that different. That is, they're not all that different until you take into account Clean Hits and meter options. 66B has a Clean Hit rate of B, which is fairly often, and 2(A+B) ~ SBH k(BE) does 20 damage more than SSH BBB or 66B enders for either combos. Not to mention, the tech traps off of 2KKKKK quickly reach ludicrous levels of meterless damage.
Thus, instead of nerfing the combo enders and possibly ruining them elsewhere, they nerfed the move that gave these situations - 2KKKKK. It wouldn't be too big of a deal, since he still has a serviceable low okizeme tool in 1K, and he doesn't lose too much damage from the wall combo damage, since he has SSH BBB. So nerfing 2KKKKK was probably the logical nerfing choice for trying to reign in his wall combo damage without neutering him too much in other areas.
At least, it WOULD be logical if they didn't nerf 2A+B in a subsequent patch. =P